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  • FIRST POST
    • benten69
    • By benten69 29th Aug 16, 8:59 AM
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    benten69
    0 WOW
    Do you tip in restaurants?
    • #1
    • 29th Aug 16, 8:59 AM
    0 WOW
    Do you tip in restaurants? 29th Aug 16 at 8:59 AM
    Wasn't sure if this was the right place to put this, so admin, please move if needed.

    Do you guys (and girls) tip when you go for a meal out? Personally I hate the idea, and it's even worse when you've got the waiter standing next to you as you select "No" on the card machine.

    However, I always say that I don't get tips for doing anything extra and providing good levels of service in my job, so why should I pay others extra for a basic service their employers should be paying them for. In my previous role I saved the company £20,000 a day in penalties by delivering the project on time (a week early in fact), but I didn't get anything extra for it, because quite simply, it was my job.

    Hence, I don't agree with tipping. They are doing a job & getting their hourly rate, so why do I need to subsidize it? Tesco don't tell me to pay extra if I go to a till vs going to the self checkout.

    However, if there is a large group of us and say the bill comes out to £18 each, we'll all chuck in £20 and let the waiter / waitress keep the change. That's the only scenario it works in for me, as it saves everyone the hassle of finding change, waiting to get their change, etc.

    What are peoples thoughts?
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Page 1
    • Voyager2002
    • By Voyager2002 29th Aug 16, 9:31 AM
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    Voyager2002
    • #2
    • 29th Aug 16, 9:31 AM
    • #2
    • 29th Aug 16, 9:31 AM
    I hate tipping and would far rather pay a fair price that includes a decent wage for the waiter. However, it is customary to tip in restaurants in this country (and far more so in the USA); when the waiter delivers the service s/he expects that there will be a tip and so it is dishonest not to tip for decent service unless you explain this in advance; and when the waiter pays tax s/he will be taxed on the income from tips that HMRC estimates from the volume of work so that s/he will have to pay tax on the tip that you don't give!

    Even if you pay by card, if you choose to tip then do so in cash: otherwise it just goes to the restaurant management (who probably make deductions and then share some of it among the staff). And if the bill includes a 'service charge' then you have already paid and so should not tip: although what I tend to do is refuse to pay it and tip the staff instead.
    • Voyager2002
    • By Voyager2002 29th Aug 16, 9:33 AM
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    Voyager2002
    • #3
    • 29th Aug 16, 9:33 AM
    • #3
    • 29th Aug 16, 9:33 AM
    Main thought is that this thread is off-topic and belongs in the 'Arms'. Hope someone will move it.
    • comeandgo
    • By comeandgo 29th Aug 16, 10:06 AM
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    comeandgo
    • #4
    • 29th Aug 16, 10:06 AM
    • #4
    • 29th Aug 16, 10:06 AM
    Always tip, it's the way I was brought up and would feel very guilty if I did not.
    • benten69
    • By benten69 29th Aug 16, 10:17 AM
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    benten69
    • #5
    • 29th Aug 16, 10:17 AM
    • #5
    • 29th Aug 16, 10:17 AM
    .....when the waiter delivers the service s/he expects that there will be a tip and so it is dishonest not to tip for decent service.....
    Originally posted by Voyager2002
    To me, that is a bit like saying "if I do a good job an save the company money I expect a big bonus or a raise", but the reality is I will probably not get that.

    I also don't understand how it is "dishonest" to not tip. Can you explain that one?

    If it's not written into your terms of service, you should not expect anything. Anything that you do get is a bonus. Same with every single other establishment you use. I dont understand why the rules seem to be different for those in the restaurant trade vs every other trade out there.

    I mean, I don't give my builder or garage a tip because they gave me an excellent service.
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    • Voyager2002
    • By Voyager2002 29th Aug 16, 1:40 PM
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    Voyager2002
    • #6
    • 29th Aug 16, 1:40 PM
    • #6
    • 29th Aug 16, 1:40 PM
    To me, that is a bit like saying "if I do a good job an save the company money I expect a big bonus or a raise", but the reality is I will probably not get that.
    Originally posted by benten69
    Depending on the industry, that might be a reasonable expectation. People who do well but don't get a pay rise tend to move on to other employers.

    I also don't understand how it is "dishonest" to not tip. Can you explain that one?
    Originally posted by benten69
    I think there is an implicit contract: the custom is that people do tip when they receive good service, and wage rates and tax rules reflect that this is what usually happens. So when a waiter comes to take your order, s/he is in the same position as someone who works in an industry where it is usual to reward good performance with a pay rise. I think if you imagine what would happen if at this point you explained that you never tip, and how the waiter's manner and behaviour would change, you will appreciate the point.

    If it's not written into your terms of service, you should not expect anything. Anything that you do get is a bonus. Same with every single other establishment you use. I dont understand why the rules seem to be different for those in the restaurant trade vs every other trade out there.

    I mean, I don't give my builder or garage a tip because they gave me an excellent service.
    Originally posted by benten69
    A lot of things are understood and practiced, without being written into terms of service.
    • victor2
    • By victor2 29th Aug 16, 4:13 PM
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    • #7
    • 29th Aug 16, 4:13 PM
    • #7
    • 29th Aug 16, 4:13 PM
    Assuming there is not a service charge included, I always subconsciously add 10% to the price of items on the menu to get a realistic cost. Then when the bill comes, I will happily tip 10% (rounded up to make it easy) if I've had satisfactory service . If the service has been better than satisfactory, I will tip a bit more.
    Having had a DD work as a waitress, I appreciate that the basic wage is pretty low and the tips make it more reasonable. That's just the way this particular industry has developed.
    • KingS6
    • By KingS6 29th Aug 16, 4:39 PM
    • 392 Posts
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    KingS6
    • #8
    • 29th Aug 16, 4:39 PM
    • #8
    • 29th Aug 16, 4:39 PM
    To me, that is a bit like saying "if I do a good job an save the company money I expect a big bonus or a raise", but the reality is I will probably not get that.

    I also don't understand how it is "dishonest" to not tip. Can you explain that one?

    If it's not written into your terms of service, you should not expect anything. Anything that you do get is a bonus. Same with every single other establishment you use. I dont understand why the rules seem to be different for those in the restaurant trade vs every other trade out there.

    I mean, I don't give my builder or garage a tip because they gave me an excellent service.
    Originally posted by benten69
    Garages and construction are not industries where tipping is expected. It is usually unskilled menial work with an element of personal service.

    Always tip, it's the way I was brought up and would feel very guilty if I did not.
    Originally posted by comeandgo
    This. It's just prudent practice.

    It's also an excellent way of rewarding good effort and punishing bad effort. It is also good leverage if you're a regular customer somewhere, you can garner a rep for being a good tipper.

    A good example is a takeaway delivery driver. They have three drops to make on the same run, all of roughly equal distance. They are incentivised to go to the person who tips over the other two who don't. If you're the one who tips you've got your food hotter. It's quite good MoneySaving if you gain something decent that you would otherwise miss out on. Pushing customer service to the max.

    What I firmly don't believe in is rewarding poor service when tipping is still expected, as is the case in some jurisdictions (cough, USA, cough). It defeats the objective. I've yet to travel to the States but I have no compunction in walking out without tipping if I receive crap service. 20 to 25 % is steep too.
    • warehouse
    • By warehouse 29th Aug 16, 4:47 PM
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    warehouse
    • #9
    • 29th Aug 16, 4:47 PM
    • #9
    • 29th Aug 16, 4:47 PM
    I will only tip if the service and food is excellent, and then at 10% of the total bill absolute maximum. If the service or food doesn't come up to par then the tip is reduced accordingly. I have absolutely no guilt doing this, quite the opposite, a tip is earned just as a wage is.

    If a restaurant levies a service charge then I will have that removed and not go back.

    If you leave a tip because it's the "done thing" then you're just a mug.
    Pants
    • Soot2006
    • By Soot2006 29th Aug 16, 4:53 PM
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    Soot2006
    I always tip ~ 10% for attentive service. I tip ~ 15% for excellent service, esp in cheaper restaurants. The only time I don't leave any tip at all is when the service is poor.

    I also like to go the same favourite restaurants so would rather the staff are happy to see me and pay attention.
    • victor2
    • By victor2 29th Aug 16, 5:11 PM
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    victor2
    I always tip ~ 10% for attentive service. I tip ~ 15% for excellent service, esp in cheaper restaurants. The only time I don't leave any tip at all is when the service is poor.

    I also like to go the same favourite restaurants so would rather the staff are happy to see me and pay attention.
    Originally posted by Soot2006
    We were recently in a Harvester with a couple of friends and decided to split the bill over two cards, which the waitress took care of. I knew no tip had been added and realised the other couple were not intending to leave anything, so left a fiver on the table, being about 10% of the bill. The other bill payer asked why on earth I was doing that. OH put it better than I could by saying the waitress deserved it, we were regulars there, and always got good service.
    • Minnibix
    • By Minnibix 29th Aug 16, 8:38 PM
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    Minnibix
    Sorry I may be missing something but I get paid minimum wage, which I believe is the lowest anyone in the UK can get paid and again I am expected to do a good job or I will have no job.

    If I get really good service it is a pleasure to tip but as a norm I do not tip someone who earns the same as me.

    I understand that it is not the same in other countries so I do follow the custom/norm for that country
    • TudorRose
    • By TudorRose 30th Aug 16, 8:26 AM
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    TudorRose
    Well said Minnibex. I too work for minimum wage. I work hard for my money like many other people on low wages but I neither expect, nor get, tips from customers for doing my job. My employers expect me to give good service as part of the job. As someone said on this thread we have a minimum wage rate in this country so there are lots of us in the same boat and I can't afford to increase the wages of someone on the same rate of pay as myself when I go out.
    • mai_taylor
    • By mai_taylor 30th Aug 16, 2:36 PM
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    mai_taylor
    I've always worked in customer service often dealing with very difficult customers on not much more than minimum wage. I don't get tips nor would I expect to. I don't see why restaurant staff should get tips for doing their job, they should provide good service regardless as this is what they are paid for. I only ever tip if someone has gone above and beyond but eating out is so expensive anyway I don't feel like I should have to pay any extra.
    • Voyager2002
    • By Voyager2002 30th Aug 16, 4:22 PM
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    Voyager2002
    Sorry I may be missing something but I get paid minimum wage, which I believe is the lowest anyone in the UK can get paid and again I am expected to do a good job or I will have no job.

    If I get really good service it is a pleasure to tip but as a norm I do not tip someone who earns the same as me.

    I understand that it is not the same in other countries so I do follow the custom/norm for that country
    Originally posted by Minnibix
    OK, so if you wanted to consult a lawyer you would refuse to pay their bill, on the basis that their pay for hour should not be more than yours? Surely not. I think that you would choose to see a lawyer or whoever on the basis of what it costs, and do without if you cannot afford it.

    It is the same with a restaurant: if you do not feel able to pay for the food, drink and service then you have the option of not consuming them, or trying to negotiate a special deal. You are welcome to enter a restaurant and explain your policy on tipping before ordering: I expect that the waiter would then give you basic service or perhaps show you how to pass your order directly to the kitchen. Equally, you are welcome to ask the owner for a discount on the prices on the menu. What you are NOT allowed to do is consume the food and drink and then announce you are not willing to pay for it. I suggest that if you allow a waiter to see you in the belief that reasonable service will be rewarded with a tip, and then fail to tip for satisfactory service, you are guilty of a form of fraud. The fact that your boss recently "shafted" you by failing to reward good performance does not justify treating others in this way.
    • Voyager2002
    • By Voyager2002 30th Aug 16, 4:24 PM
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    Voyager2002
    I've always worked in customer service often dealing with very difficult customers on not much more than minimum wage. I don't get tips nor would I expect to. I don't see why restaurant staff should get tips for doing their job, they should provide good service regardless as this is what they are paid for. I only ever tip if someone has gone above and beyond but eating out is so expensive anyway I don't feel like I should have to pay any extra.
    Originally posted by mai_taylor
    I do agree that tipping is a very bad practice. The reality is that it is not fair to deceive a waiter by not tipping when a tip could reasonably be expected.
    • I Love comps
    • By I Love comps 15th Sep 16, 6:54 AM
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    I Love comps
    I will tip only if I receive good service - Good Food and friendly waiter/waitress.

    I also make a point of leaving a comment on Trip advisor so other people can see my views on the place.
    • Minnibix
    • By Minnibix 15th Sep 16, 12:37 PM
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    Minnibix
    I never said I would not pay for the food and service that is what I pay for when I pay my bill after eating my meal. I don't understand what you mean by basic service, so if we all pass our orders directly to the kitchen who do you think will be out of a job? not the chef. I think tipping is outdated and even a little demeaning it reminds me of toffs tipping the plebs. However in a lot of other countries they do not have minimum wage so I tip and tip well. Are you saying you cannot go into a restaurant and enjoy a meal unless you tip - then I think that every place that serves food should have a big sign on the window saying that tipping is mandatory.
    • Oakdene
    • By Oakdene 15th Sep 16, 12:39 PM
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    Oakdene
    Yep, I usually tip 10% for good service & good food.

    I have had a shocking meal before but the member of the waiting staff was brilliant & I left them a small tip as their service was great.

    I wont leave any form of tip if during the meal we're not asked is everything ok? or if we're made to wait ages for our plates to be cleared (unless its exceptionally busy).
    • bingo bango
    • By bingo bango 15th Sep 16, 1:26 PM
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    bingo bango
    Just back from the US where one of the bills helpfully had tip amounts of 15%, 20% and 22% calculated at the bottom. Looked to me like, normal, good and excellent service indicators.
    I tended to tip around 15% generally (bill dependent) and nobody complained.

    At home, I tend to to tip around 10%, unless the service is excellent where I'll sometimes push it to 20%.

    I don't get (nor expect) tips in my public sector role, but I do remember what making minimum wage is like so I'm happy to increase the pot for low paid staff where I can. I have friends who are astonished that I would tip service staff, but I really don't care if they value someone else's hard work so little that they won't recognise it (and some of those on minimum wage work very hard to please).
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