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  • FIRST POST
    • Snellosaurus
    • By Snellosaurus 28th Aug 16, 10:37 AM
    • 20Posts
    • 6Thanks
    Snellosaurus
    Claim Form Received
    • #1
    • 28th Aug 16, 10:37 AM
    Claim Form Received 28th Aug 16 at 10:37 AM
    Hi all,

    I've received a claim form in the post after my appeals being rejected. I've delved around for information about how to respond to it, and have had some mixed advice. I'd really appreciate some tips from here if anyone has any.

    The things I am unsure about are:

    In the Particulars of the Claim section, it simply lists the PCN number, car reg and date. It then breaks down the costs, quoting the County Courts Act 1984 to explain the interest it is putting on the fee.

    From what I've read elsewhere, I think there should be much more detail in this for me to respond to - is that correct?

    Secondly, I have also read that I should respond online to this form and put nothing in the defence box initially, saving that for later if it gets that far. Would you agree?

    Any help would be marvelous!

    Quick run down of the PCN: it was issued on a very poorly signed private road that the driver had no awareness of being private. Driver was sat in the car waiting when someone slapped a PCN on the windscreen whilst driver was still in the car.
Page 3
    • bargepole
    • By bargepole 26th Nov 16, 11:35 PM
    • 2,027 Posts
    • 5,776 Thanks
    bargepole
    ... I'm searching for advice on how to compile the Witness Statment and Skeleton Arguments - I have seen a few examples where they are separated and others where the evidence is melded in with the Witness Statement. Do you have any thoughts / advice on which is the best approach?
    Originally posted by Snellosaurus
    The best approach will depend on what the main points of your defence are.

    If your defence is primarily about the facts - eg you paid the correct parking tariff but the machine issued a duff ticket - your witness statement should spell out the full sequence of events in as much detail as possible. You could then attach a Skeleton setting out the legal reasons why you shouldn't be liable - frustration of contract, best endeavours, etc and quote case law if applicable.

    But if your defence is mainly legal arguments, such as their non-compliance with POFA, lack of standing and so on, then you could start your W/S by saying something like "The facts of the case are as set out in my original defence, and I rely on that document as a true account."

    Then go on to list the legal arguments.
    Speeding cases fought: 24 (3 of mine, 21 for others). Cases won: 20. Points on licence: 0. Private Parking Court Cases: Won 27. Lost 9.
    • Snellosaurus
    • By Snellosaurus 27th Nov 16, 9:51 AM
    • 20 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Snellosaurus
    Thank you for taking the time to give your thoughts.

    There will be two witnesses, including myself. Do we file both WSs by the 14 days before the hearing as stated on the paperwork, or does the second witness just turn up on the day?

    Can any one signpost me to some more examples of WS and SAs? I'm struggling to find many examples that I can use to help me out in this instance. Some examples I have found refer and respond to the Claimant's WS. I'm guessing they are not going to send it out early so I can do that, so do I ignore that option?

    Bargepole: As I think this case fits your second example, do I understand you correctly in thinking that you are suggesting the WS contains the legal arguments, and I do not have a separate SA at all? Briefly, the case is that the car was stationary with someone sat in it when the ticket was issued, in addition to the signage being useless.

    I keep reading about references to the 'bundle', but I'm not sure how to make this up, nor how to reference things in it: I know I need to have the photos I will rely on in this, but do I also need to have complete printed copies of transcripts from any cases / documents that I am relying on, too? Or just relevant bits from them? Do I cite the items from the bundle in the WS/SA as in an essay, for example, with a footnote? Or brackets giving the item number in the budle?

    Do I include in the bundle a copy of all the correspondence I have received and sent?

    Thanks for all your input, everyone. I really appreciate it.
    Last edited by Snellosaurus; 27-11-2016 at 11:31 AM. Reason: Clarification.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 27th Nov 16, 1:36 PM
    • 48,883 Posts
    • 62,382 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Do we file both WSs by the 14 days before the hearing as stated on the paperwork, or does the second witness just turn up on the day?
    You file everything you intend to rely upon. That's both WS and all exhibits, which can be highlighted to pick out the relevant wording you are relying on.

    e.g. if someone is using the Jopson case merely to show how an appeal court defined as FACT the concept of 'parking/not parking', they would use only that extract and highlight the wording about that specific issue, in their exhibits. But then take the full printed out transcript with them to court in case the Judge wants to see where the extract came from.

    And if someone (who has got a PCN in their own home car park) is showing an extract from their lease about the right to peaceful enjoyment of the property and/or the fact parking is not restricted/nothing about permits, then they can file just that extract but at the hearing, ideally have the whole thing with them if they have the lease.

    Assume you will not get their WS in good time, that they will wait until the last minute to show you their cards. So no, you would not be able to pull apart their WS up front but like Lamilad, should object at the hearing if the person who signed their WS is not sitting there to be cross-examined.

    Briefly, the case is that the car was stationary with someone sat in it when the ticket was issued, in addition to the signage being useless.
    Be careful - someone sitting in a car does not necessarily mean it is not 'parked'. Use in your favour, the Jopson case findings of fact about parked/not parked' because your Judge will take heed of His Honour Charles Harris QC. It's not so much about someone sitting in the car IMHO, more about the very short time; more about their predatory tactics and lack of grace period and rubbish signs, all of which breach the ATA Code of Practice. In Beavis, the CoP was deemed as essentially a 'form of regulation' that parking firms must abide by.

    Do I cite the items from the bundle in the WS/SA as in an essay, for example, with a footnote? Or brackets giving the item number in the bundle?
    Either - whatever looks clearest to a Judge. Most I've seen have brackets giving the item number.

    Do I include in the bundle a copy of all the correspondence I have received and sent?
    Unless you want to show something specific like your appeal, e.g. if they are denying one was sent, then you might not need every single thing.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Dot2101
    • By Dot2101 13th Mar 17, 10:59 PM
    • 60 Posts
    • 67 Thanks
    Dot2101
    hi does anyone know what the outcome of this case was? I would be interested to know!
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