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  • FIRST POST
    • ah19900511
    • By ah19900511 26th Aug 16, 3:16 PM
    • 9Posts
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    ah19900511
    Help with first appeal to Euro Car Park
    • #1
    • 26th Aug 16, 3:16 PM
    Help with first appeal to Euro Car Park 26th Aug 16 at 3:16 PM
    Hi All,


    I have read the newbie thread, thank you to whoever took the time to write all of that out, but I had another question. I don't want to mess this up since I really cannot afford the £100 they want from me.


    I have parked in the car park that I received my fine in hundreds of times before. It's a huge rectangular shaped car park owned by the council, however in all of the times I have visited, I have never noticed there is a central square which is owned by Euro Car Parks. On the day of the 'offence' I even paid a full 12 hour fee to the Council, thinking I was in that car park and I have a receipt of this. On a second look, there are 2 signs but they really aren't noticeable.


    My question is do I supply the receipt to prove their poor signage meant I paid the Council instead with my first appeal, or should I wait and attach it to my POPLA given that they seem to refuse everyone's appeals anyway?


    Thanks


    Ashleigh
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 26th Aug 16, 3:22 PM
    • 12,439 Posts
    • 14,843 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 26th Aug 16, 3:22 PM
    • #2
    • 26th Aug 16, 3:22 PM
    its not a "fine" its an INVOICE, nothing more

    I doubt that either ECP or POPLA will take this paid for ticket into account as its probably not relevant to either of them

    by all means appeal it using the blue text template

    then try popla with an appeal based on no contract , poor or inadequate signage that fails the BPA CoP , not the same as the Beavis case (anti-beavis) and any other suitable points on POFA2012 , NTK errors etc , as keeper

    if this was a windscreen ticket , use the blue text appeal around day 25, as KEEPER (*not driver)

    otherwise appeal promptly if it was a postal notice
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • ah19900511
    • By ah19900511 26th Aug 16, 3:40 PM
    • 9 Posts
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    ah19900511
    • #3
    • 26th Aug 16, 3:40 PM
    • #3
    • 26th Aug 16, 3:40 PM
    Ok, thank you for the response. I just thought the fact I paid the Council is proof in itself that their signage is a joke and really inadequate for the size of the car park. The sign detailing the charges is maybe half a metre by half a metre and I was parked about 75 metres away from it.


    Sorry for being really ignorant, I have just Googled the Beavis case, however you say in your response that my appeal is not the same as Beavis. The blue letter says 'I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis'

    am I still ok to follow the template?
    • Redx
    • By Redx 26th Aug 16, 3:52 PM
    • 12,439 Posts
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    Redx
    • #4
    • 26th Aug 16, 3:52 PM
    • #4
    • 26th Aug 16, 3:52 PM
    yes follow the template

    any popla appeal will use some of the Beavis case where it falls in your favour , like signage , but not where it fails like on "not a gpeol" , in other words the SC ruling put some issues to bed although the main issue failed

    my point is that if you paid the council for a service and didnt partake of that service but parked on private land where the council offers no service , the aggrieved party has the right to complain about it

    if the ECP signage was woeful and didnt make it clear to you, that is an appeal point , as for the council , maybe their signage is woeful too but neither ECP nor POPLA will care and wont rule on it as its not relevant to the case in front of them

    the vast majority (if not ALL) of private parking signs are inadequate and rarely meet the CoP of the AOS they have signed up to , despite it being there for 4 years (since POFA2012)
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 26th Aug 16, 4:24 PM
    • 10,981 Posts
    • 16,386 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #5
    • 26th Aug 16, 4:24 PM
    • #5
    • 26th Aug 16, 4:24 PM
    If signage is so poor, you must make a good deal of that in your POPLA appeal (among many other appeal points), not the initial appeal, which is basically a process you go through to obtain a POPLA code. Very few initial appeals are upheld by the PPC.

    You need to get some photos of the signs, as well as the confusing layout between the council site and the ECP 'island'.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • ah19900511
    • By ah19900511 17th Oct 16, 9:59 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    ah19900511
    • #6
    • 17th Oct 16, 9:59 PM
    • #6
    • 17th Oct 16, 9:59 PM
    Hi everyone,


    I submitted my email to the proper page on the euro car park website as well as doing it by email to make sure they have it. My receipt says it takes up to 35 days to get a response only it has now been 45 days and I still haven't had a response - should I chase it?


    Thanks
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 17th Oct 16, 10:55 PM
    • 36,455 Posts
    • 73,279 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #7
    • 17th Oct 16, 10:55 PM
    • #7
    • 17th Oct 16, 10:55 PM
    Hi everyone,


    I submitted my email to the proper page on the euro car park website as well as doing it by email to make sure they have it. My receipt says it takes up to 35 days to get a response only it has now been 45 days and I still haven't had a response - should I chase it?


    Thanks
    Originally posted by ah19900511
    Have a look at the BPA CoP to see what they say about timescales. If the PPC is outside the CoP, complain to the BPA. If not, wait to see what happens.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th Oct 16, 12:04 AM
    • 40,463 Posts
    • 52,363 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 18th Oct 16, 12:04 AM
    • #8
    • 18th Oct 16, 12:04 AM
    Hi everyone,


    I submitted my email to the proper page on the euro car park website as well as doing it by email to make sure they have it. My receipt says it takes up to 35 days to get a response only it has now been 45 days and I still haven't had a response - should I chase it?

    Thanks
    Originally posted by ah19900511
    Euro do this a LOT.

    Check your spam and junk email folders in case a reply went there. If not, what I've done before is email a complaint to the BPA and copy Euro in, so they can see they've been 'reported' for not replying to an appeal in a timely fashion, either by cancelling the charge or issuing a POPLA code.

    BPA email is: aos@britishparking.co.uk

    You know ECP's email.

    Don't say who was driving, no flowery introduction or appeal. Just a subject line with the PCN number and 'complaint about Euro Car Parks not issuing a POPLA code' and a few lines telling the BPA the dates in question and the fact you have not heard.

    By making it obvious you've cc'd Euro in plain sight in the email, that stops the BPA wittering on with their usual anti-consumer drivel (sort of like this): 'Have you contacted the parking company? Go away, we are not a regulator, clear orf or why don't you pay our beloved member some of your hard-earned money...there's a good chap!'
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • ah19900511
    • By ah19900511 28th Oct 16, 4:06 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    ah19900511
    • #9
    • 28th Oct 16, 4:06 PM
    • #9
    • 28th Oct 16, 4:06 PM
    I sent the email to BPA copying in Euro and they have replied (although I have only just got it as it went to my spam box) to say the letter refusing to drop my appeal and with my POPLA code was sent on the 22nd September. They've attached a PDF version for me to see.


    I've now missed the 14 days at the reduced rate of £60 rather than £100 and have missed the 28 day window to appeal using my code.


    What do I do now? I've asked if they have proof of postage because I've never received it.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 31st Oct 16, 12:24 PM
    • 36,455 Posts
    • 73,279 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Submit a PoPLA appeal anyway. Add this bit to the beginning.

    The UK Government has stipulated that Alternative Dispute Resolution (appeals) must be made available for up to one year.

    ADR regs can be found here, ref section 64.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/288199/bis-14-575-implementing-alternative-dispute-resolution-directive-and-online-dispute-resolution-regulation-consultation.pdf

    This is the relevant bit.

    Procedural rules for refusing disputes 64.

    Article 5(4) of the ADR Directive has a list of procedural rules which Member States can choose to permit certified ADR providers to apply. These procedural rules would allow certified ADR providers to refuse to deal with inappropriate disputes. The grounds for refusing to deal with disputes which can be applied are as follows:
    - the consumer has made no attempt, in the first instance, to resolve the complaint directly with the business;
    - the complaint is frivolous or vexatious;
    - the dispute is being or has been considered by another certified ADR provider or a court;
    - the value of the claim falls below or above a pre-specified limit (any monetary thresholds must not significantly impair access to ADR);
    - the complaint is not submitted within a pre-specified time limit (which cannot be set at less than a year from when the complaint was first submitted to the business); and
    - dealing with that type of dispute “would otherwise seriously impair the effective operation of the ADR entity”.



    State that since none of the above apply, you expect the appeal to be heard in line with Government regulations as it is the will of Parliament.

    Read the most recent successful appeals from the POPLA Decisions sticky thread to create your appeal. There are template appeal points around post 2341 give or take a few pages for you to use.

    Your appeal points should include at least, not the landowner, no standing to issue charges in their own name, inadequate signage, and if applicable, non POFA 2012 compliant NTK, plus anything else you can find that is relevant.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • ah19900511
    • By ah19900511 31st Oct 16, 12:38 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    ah19900511
    Hi,


    Thank you.


    I thought I was posting a whole new thread, but ended up replying to my old thread, so deleted the post and you have managed to reply anyway. I am severely IT challenged.


    Thanks for your help.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 1st Nov 16, 11:59 PM
    • 40,463 Posts
    • 52,363 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    If POPLA will not accept the late appeal (probably not, and you will have to POST it as the code won't work now) then just ignore ECP. Toothless firm, you will merely get letters for a few months. I've ignored them myself. I do not believe they posted that rejection letter, do you?
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • ah19900511
    • By ah19900511 4th Nov 16, 10:36 AM
    • 9 Posts
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    ah19900511
    No, I don't believe they sent it at all. I have checked my post every single day waiting for it, it has never materialized.
    • ah19900511
    • By ah19900511 4th Nov 16, 10:47 AM
    • 9 Posts
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    ah19900511
    They also replied to say they legally are not required to have proof of postage.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 4th Nov 16, 11:03 AM
    • 36,455 Posts
    • 73,279 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    They also replied to say they legally are not required to have proof of postage.
    Originally posted by ah19900511
    They are correct, they are not legally required to have it. The problem for them however would be in the extremely unlikely event that they tried court, you would ask for proof of posting, they wouldn't have it, and the judge would find in your favour.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • ah19900511
    • By ah19900511 4th Nov 16, 12:20 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    ah19900511
    Cool, thank you.


    So, final questions.


    1- I am writing my POPLA appeal now, if I state that the signage is so poor I paid the Council (which I still have proof for) rather than ECP, I give away the fact I know it was me driving. Should I not state this?


    2- If POPLA wont hear my case and I don't pay and ECP refer the debt to collectors, does this impact credit score, eligibility for mortgages etc etc ?
    • pogofish
    • By pogofish 4th Nov 16, 12:56 PM
    • 6,236 Posts
    • 6,136 Thanks
    pogofish
    2- If POPLA wont hear my case and I don't pay and ECP refer the debt to collectors, does this impact credit score, eligibility for mortgages etc etc ?
    Originally posted by ah19900511
    This is all covered in the Newbies Sticky, notably post 4 - You said you read it!
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