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  • FIRST POST
    • Guinevere23
    • By Guinevere23 22nd Aug 16, 12:58 PM
    • 2Posts
    • 2Thanks
    Guinevere23
    Premier Park Ltd - POPLA
    • #1
    • 22nd Aug 16, 12:58 PM
    Premier Park Ltd - POPLA 22nd Aug 16 at 12:58 PM
    Thanks for all the detailed information on this forum.
    I am being pursued by Premier Park as I put the wrong registration number into the machine at their car park.

    I'm now have a POPLA appeal code and would ask for your help in reviewing my appeal as I believe I've now read and searched everything I can in relation to this on this forum. I have a PCN that does not adhere to the POFA requirements and have not declared a driver so, hopefully, quite straightforward.

    I'd appreciate someone reviewing my appeal wording as I've searched but not found another on the threads, for some reason, so I've had to cobble together.

    -------------------------
    POPLA Ref: xxx
    Parking ticket number: xxx

    This letter is in addition to my completed appeal form, which is enclosed.

    I write to lodge my formal appeal in respect of the above-detailed Parking Charge Notice (“PCN”) issued by Premier Park Limited (“Premier”) in respect of an alleged breach of Parking Terms and Conditions at Trinity Street Car Park on 4th July 2016. I confirm that on that date, I was the vehicle’s keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definition in Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“POFA”).

    I set out below why I am not liable for this parking charge:

    1) Premier’s Notice to Keeper failed to meet the strict requirements of POFA.
    2) Premier does not have the standing or authority to pursue charges or to form contracts with drivers using this particular car park.
    3) The car park signage was inadequate.

    1) Premier’s Notice to Keeper failed to meet the strict requirements of POFA

    In order to rely upon POFA to hold a vehicle's keeper liable for unpaid parking charges, an operator must deliver a Notice to Keeper that fully complies with all of POFA’s strict requirements.

    I set out below a non-exhaustive list of reasons why Premier’s Notice to Keeper failed to do so.
    • Schedule 4, Paragraph 9 of PoFA states the PCN must (9f) warn the keeper that if after the Period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given —
    (i) the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and
    (ii) the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for
    service for the driver,
    The creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the
    right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;”
    The PCN issued to the appellant states “If within 28 days we have not received full
    payment or driver details, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, we
    have the right, subject to the requirements of the Act, to recover the parking charge
    amount that remains unpaid from the keeper of the vehicle.“ This does not fully meet the
    requirements of PoFA as, by informing that it can seek to recover payment after 28 days,
    Premier has failed to meet section (9f) as this 28 day period will not begin until the day
    after the notice is given.
    This point was successfully used on appeal under POPLA Code – 6662515562 in March 2016.
    • Contrary to the requirements of Sch.4 Para 9 (2) (a), the Notice to Keeper did not specify the period of parking to which the notice relates. It merely stated the times which the vehicle entered and exited the car park; these times do not equate to the start and end of the period of parking.
    • Contrary to the requirements of Sch.4 Para 9 (2) (b), the Notice to Keeper did not inform the keeper that the driver is required to pay parking charges in respect of the specified period of parking and that the parking charges have not been paid in full.
    • Contrary to the requirements of Sch.4 Para 9 (2) (e), the Notice to Keeper did not state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper (i) to pay the unpaid parking charges; or (ii) if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver.
    • Contrary to the requirements of Sch.4 Para (2) (h), the Notice to Keeper did not identify the creditor and specify how and to whom payment or notification to the creditor may be made.

    Consequently, Premier has forfeited its right to use the provisions of POFA to claim unpaid parking charges from me as the vehicle’s keeper.

    2) Premier has no standing or authority to pursue charges or to form contracts with drivers using this particular car park

    I do not believe that Premier has any proprietary interest in the land such that it has no standing to make contracts with drivers in its own right, or to pursue charges for breach in its own name. In the absence of such title, Premier must have assignment of rights from the landowner to pursue charges for breach in their own right, including at Court level.

    I contend that Premier merely holds a basic licence to supply and maintain (non-compliant) signs and to post out 'tickets' as a deterrent to car park users. I therefore require Premier to provide POPLA and me with an unredacted, contemporaneous copy of the contract that it holds with the landowner. This is required so that I may be satisfied that this contract permits Premier to make contracts with drivers in its own right and provides it with full authority to pursue charges, including a right to pursue them in Court in its own name.

    For the avoidance of doubt, a witness statement to the effect that a contract is or was in place will not be sufficient to provide the necessary detail of the contract terms (such as revenue sharing, genuine intentions of these restrictions and charges, set amounts to charge for each stated contravention, etc.).

    3) Premier’s signage was inadequate

    Although Premier is aware that the British Parking Association Code of Practice requires that terms on car park entrance signs must be clearly readable without a driver having to turn away from the road ahead, the signs in this particular car park were not sufficiently clear to give proper notice to the driver.
    • There are no signs at the entrance to the car park to confirm that you are entering a zone where immediate cost is being incurred.
    • The signs with parking information are on walls behind cars or the payment machine and, therefore, unreadable from a vehicle.
    • Another problem with the sign is that the information regarding any contravention leading to a fine is small.
    • The sign also offers a premium rate telephone number to contact Premier Park ltd. BPA code of practice 18.7 states that The Company (Premier Park ltd) should offer a local rate number, not a 0871 premium rate number.
    • The sign does not show who the owner of the land is.
    • The signs did not include as a core term any condition advising the driver that Premier would reserve the right under POFA to hold the vehicle’s keeper liable for the parking charge should this not be paid by the driver.

    Based upon the above-detailed representations, I respectfully request that my appeal is allowed.
    --------------------------------------------
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 22nd Aug 16, 5:17 PM
    • 12,445 Posts
    • 14,857 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 22nd Aug 16, 5:17 PM
    • #2
    • 22nd Aug 16, 5:17 PM
    seems reasonable and not seen any glaring errors

    maybe compare it to others on here, which there are some despite what you said

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5495836&page=2

    and

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5472442&page=3

    and read this and learn from what was said to try to hone your popla appeal (ignoring the not a gpeol as thats dead after Beavis)

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5378359

    especially read the rebuttals and complaints to popla and the ISPA and on what grounds

    then try to make sure yours wins by making sure there is no ambiguity in your appeal (prevention being better than cure)
    Last edited by Redx; 22-08-2016 at 5:44 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Beaverman33
    • By Beaverman33 11th Oct 16, 12:17 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Beaverman33
    • #3
    • 11th Oct 16, 12:17 PM
    Any update . . .
    • #3
    • 11th Oct 16, 12:17 PM
    Hi Guinevere23 - wondered if you'd had any update on your case. My car has been fined at the same spot as was looking for responses to use as a baseline.
    Last edited by Beaverman33; 14-10-2016 at 3:14 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Oct 16, 11:46 PM
    • 40,528 Posts
    • 52,421 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #4
    • 11th Oct 16, 11:46 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Oct 16, 11:46 PM
    Hi Guinevere23 - wondered if you'd had any update on your case. I've been fined at the same spot as was looking for responses to use as a baseline.
    Originally posted by Beaverman33
    You need to read the NEWBIES FAQS thread for your first appeal template and NOT say who was driving! So hop to page one of this board and read 'NEWBIES PLEASE READ THESE FAQS FIRST'.

    Once at POPLA stage, there are plenty of more specific ones on here and some template POPLA appeal wording now too. Search the forum for the words 'Premier POPLA'. You must lead on 'no keeper liability' at POPLA stage but the above example is a bit cluttered in that respect and merely needs to concentrate the keeper liability point on the '29 days/keeper details' flaw. As seen in ALL other Premier Park threads, every one recently has been won at POPLA!

    so start with the NEWBIES thread for first appeal.

    Then 'POPLA Decisions' (the end pages) for POPLA example wording.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Beaverman33
    • By Beaverman33 13th Oct 16, 7:49 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Beaverman33
    • #5
    • 13th Oct 16, 7:49 AM
    Coupon-mad
    • #5
    • 13th Oct 16, 7:49 AM
    Hi Coupon-mad,


    Thanks for your help / advice, much appreciated. I've already looked at the 'NEWBIES PLEASE READ THESE FAQS FIRST' thread in detail. I'm just trying to get a little ahead of myself so that I have all I need well in advance and that I fully understand all of the terminology! I'll also have a search through some of the more recent Premier Park cases.


    Thanks again
    • Guinevere23
    • By Guinevere23 24th Oct 16, 2:50 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Guinevere23
    • #6
    • 24th Oct 16, 2:50 PM
    Fine dropped
    • #6
    • 24th Oct 16, 2:50 PM
    Sorry for the delay in response.

    My fine was dropped - Premier didn't even try to come back with evidence!

    Hopefully you can use my appeal below to get the same result.

    Regards
    Guinevere23
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 24th Oct 16, 3:14 PM
    • 40,528 Posts
    • 52,421 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #7
    • 24th Oct 16, 3:14 PM
    • #7
    • 24th Oct 16, 3:14 PM
    Well done - this is what chased them away IMHO:

    I set out below a non-exhaustive list of reasons why Premier’s Notice to Keeper failed to do so.
    • Schedule 4, Paragraph 9 of PoFA states the PCN must (9f) warn the keeper that if after the Period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given —
    (i) the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and
    (ii) the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;”

    The PCN issued to the appellant states “If within 28 days we have not received full payment or driver details, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, we have the right, subject to the requirements of the Act, to recover the parking charge amount that remains unpaid from the keeper of the vehicle.“

    This does not fully meet the requirements of PoFA as, by informing that it can seek to recover payment after 28 days, Premier has failed to meet section (9f) as this 28 day period will not begin until the day after the notice is given. This point was successfully used on appeal under POPLA Code – 6662515562 in March 2016.
    That is the 'Premier Park PCN flaw' - NEWBIES only have to search the forum to learn this and NO CASE should be lost v Premier Park (unless a driver has been given away which makes it harder as an appellant driver can't use the above).

    We've not lost one all year AFAIK and all the time they use that wording they are stuffed. No idea why anyone with a computer who made the tiniest bit of research would lose a Premier Park POPLA appeal unless the driver was admitted.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 24-10-2016 at 3:17 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

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