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  • FIRST POST
    • cinereus
    • By cinereus 19th Aug 16, 4:36 PM
    • 2,598Posts
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    cinereus
    McDonald's & MET - almost a month later
    • #1
    • 19th Aug 16, 4:36 PM
    McDonald's & MET - almost a month later 19th Aug 16 at 4:36 PM
    The registered keeper got a Parking Charge Notice from MET following 106 mins in a 90 min limit McD's car park. Whoever was driving broke down and was waiting for assistance which is why it took so long. They paid for food with a credit card.

    I've read the newbie sticky twice now and can't make heads or tail of it with all the info scattered all over the place and strange sentence construction.

    Postal PCN ? (i.e. with no mention of any windscreen ticket at all, whether seen or not):

    A postal PCN or NTK might be headed up 'Notice to Keeper' or 'Reminder' or 'Charge Notice' or it may even be a random letter from a debt collector - it is still your Notice to Keeper, in effect, if it is the first letter to arrive.

    Compare your postal PCN to paragraph 8 or 9 of POFA 2012 (linked below), depending if there was a windscreen ticket issued first or not. It's an excerpt from a law but it really isn't difficult, please don't just ask the regulars here to check your NTK for you without making an attempt to check it yourself, unless you really need help to read the simple bullet points in paragraph 8 (NTK which follows a windscreen ticket) or paragraph 9 (NTK which serves as the first PCN).

    Look for omissions in wording or late arrival of the NTK and include those points in your appeal because as the registered keeper you can argue 'no keeper liability' if the PPC have not followed the requirements for a NTK. However that does not make the ticket 'illegal' it just demotes it to one which is issued under 'old rules and is only potentially aimed at an - unidentified of course! - driver.

    An appeal can be submitted by the keeper after a postal NTK even if the first opportunity has expired, after a windcsreen PCN.
    "An appeal can be submitted by the keeper after a postal NTK even if the first opportunity has expired, after a windcsreen [sic] PCN."

    Letter is dated almost month ago and was issued within 7 days. First discount date has passed, 3 days until 28 day cut-off. Keeper was away for a month hence tardiness in finding it.

    Can the keeper submit an appeal or not? The tacked on "after a windscreen PCN" makes the sentence unparseable.

    I assume you guys know the MET letters well but there's no mention I can find of whether these are "correct" under the POFA 2012 (although by my reading it seems fine apart from an omission from para 8(2)a and the fact it never mentions either a Keeper or Registered Keeper).

    MET are BPA members so, according to the sticky, it would seem the next step is to appeal to MET? Why then do all the linked successes related to MET & McD's suggest contacting the manager first?

    So ignoring the advice to contact McD's manager or this unparseable clause about a windscreen notice, I assume I write a BPA appeal and then go to POPLA starting with this letter?:

    Date


    Dear Sirs

    Re: PCN No. ....................

    I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car and I will complain to the landowner about the matter if it is not cancelled.

    I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers before they park.

    Further, I understand you do not own the car park and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge. So please supply that policy as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013. I believe the driver may well be eligible for cancellation and you have omitted clear information about the process for complaints including a geographical address of the landowner.

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

    I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

    Yours faithfully,
    Thanks for any help. If we are not familiar with the current wording of MET notices, I can copy it all out here. And FWIW, no signage was noticed whilst there.
    Last edited by cinereus; 19-08-2016 at 4:38 PM.
Page 3
    • cinereus
    • By cinereus 13th Oct 16, 4:14 PM
    • 2,598 Posts
    • 909 Thanks
    cinereus
    Complain to the BPA.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    Thanks.

    MET have now told me they do not send out new POPLA codes thereby leaving me with no means to appeal. POPLA adamantly refuse to accept appeals without a code and MET refuse to issue a valid code. What next apart from complain to the BPA? Just email my representations to POPLA?! I'm going to be out of the country for a few months so a court appearance would be very inconvenient.
    • cinereus
    • By cinereus 13th Oct 16, 4:26 PM
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    • 909 Thanks
    cinereus
    Just sent an email to BPA and went through the CoP:

    Code of practice 4:
    Any organisation or person applying for BPA or AOS membership must: • agree to follow the decisions of POPLA, the independent appeals service.
    In this case, POPLA said that a new code should be issued and MET have refused.

    22.12.1 Within all Appeal Rejection Letters, and in order to comply with the EU ADR Directive, the following wording should be used;
    • You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure. [Insert standard operator text to appeal to POPLA, including 28 day time limit for doing so, the POPLA verification code and the POPLA website address]
    Nada.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Oct 16, 6:24 PM
    • 40,566 Posts
    • 52,456 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    You will get nowhere now, you missed the POPLA deadline so go back to pre-POPLA old rules and just ignore the letters from now on. MET do not sue people, but if you did get court papers, come back and we will help (defendable, similar to that POPLA appeal).

    Yes, ignore them, no contact, nothing.

    Please join our campaign of complaint about this industry's conduct to the Government:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5524754&page=6

    In your case I would wait for the BPA to fob you off, then use that pathetic email to complain about THEM as well to Mrs May and your MP, pointing out that the BPA are an old boys' club who are at pains to tell consumers that they are 'not a regulator' but they appear to relish the way Parliament assumes they are.

    The BPA and (considered even worse) the IPC use their apparent 'status' to lobby for their grubby members' interests alone. Parliament lap up everything the BPA says and swallowed hook, line and sinker some utter bilge when the BPA lobbied to get 'keeper liability' into the POFA 2012 (Schedule 4 being an insult to consumers and a widely-considered 'scammers rights' piece of legislation). compare Parliament's cluelessness with the informed and victimised British public, who know that there is evidence that the entire industry is rotten. Read and show your MP and Mrs May/Mr Corbyn, the Plain Language Commission's article on a BPA member's antics at a Derbyshire Hospital:

    http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/plcdev/app/public/system/pdf_files/files/000/000/191/original/QueensHospitalEd1copy.pdf

    That contains this:
    Quote:
    "The BPA does little to curb its members excesses. Its previous investigations into similar concerns have tended to produce reports that exonerate the parking firms. As a private company the BPA is held accountable only to its members. given its Hypocrisy about 'raising standards', its pious annual adoption of a 'presidents charity' which it urges members to support ( using money taken from drivers ) and the way it seems to retain the trust of government ministers, the BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"

    A Trade Body for ex-clampers and money-grabbers is no better than leaving a parking firm in charge (self regulation) which will never work. No wonder consumers get short shrift and are certainly not (BPA spiel coming up) 'at the heart of our thinking'.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 13-10-2016 at 6:34 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • cinereus
    • By cinereus 14th Oct 16, 1:24 PM
    • 2,598 Posts
    • 909 Thanks
    cinereus
    You will get nowhere now, you missed the POPLA deadline so go back to pre-POPLA old rules and just ignore the letters from now on. MET do not sue people, but if you did get court papers, come back and we will help (defendable, similar to that POPLA appeal).

    Yes, ignore them, no contact, nothing.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Hang on so now it just gets left in limbo? Is there any hit to my credit rating or similar?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 14th Oct 16, 2:51 PM
    • 11,017 Posts
    • 16,450 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    In limbo for 6 years - the time available for MET to pursue you through the small claims court. They are not currently litigious, but neither were ParkingEye 3 years ago, now they are issuing 30,000 court cases per year.

    http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/MET_Parking_Services.html

    Only 'hit' on your credit rating is if this goes to court, costs are awarded against you by the judge and you fail to pay by the due date.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Oct 16, 3:28 PM
    • 40,566 Posts
    • 52,456 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Hang on so now it just gets left in limbo? Is there any hit to my credit rating or similar?
    Originally posted by cinereus
    No. This was always the case pre-POPLA, and the sky didn't fall in. It is also the case with any IPC firm, as there is no appeal worth trying with those (IAS being considered a kangaroo court by the great British public who have gone through that mill).

    However some PPCs are litigious and the greed is getting out of control so they need a slap down from the Government sharpish!

    Hence why you need to write to Mrs May, Mr Corbyn and your MP because the DCLG are currently considering how to reign in private parking firms. Focus their minds on what people are going through for years to escape 'credit clamping'!
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • cinereus
    • By cinereus 18th Nov 16, 4:03 PM
    • 2,598 Posts
    • 909 Thanks
    cinereus
    Thanks.

    MET have now told me they do not send out new POPLA codes thereby leaving me with no means to appeal. POPLA adamantly refuse to accept appeals without a code and MET refuse to issue a valid code. What next apart from complain to the BPA? Just email my representations to POPLA?! I'm going to be out of the country for a few months so a court appearance would be very inconvenient.
    Originally posted by cinereus
    lol, came back from a month away to find they sent another POPLA code after all!

    Submitting now...
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th Nov 16, 4:56 PM
    • 40,566 Posts
    • 52,456 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Hang on, is it the same as before?
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 18th Nov 16, 5:01 PM
    • 1,009 Posts
    • 918 Thanks
    DoaM
    Same what? Code? Appeal wording?
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th Nov 16, 5:48 PM
    • 40,566 Posts
    • 52,456 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Appeal wording. It is a while back so I've forgotten!
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

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