Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • Fistatron
    • By Fistatron 12th Aug 16, 6:35 PM
    • 23Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Fistatron
    T-Mobile ruined my credit rating
    • #1
    • 12th Aug 16, 6:35 PM
    T-Mobile ruined my credit rating 12th Aug 16 at 6:35 PM
    Hey Everyone, this is my first post and I know there are probably tons of similar posts, I know as i have spent the last week frantically searching anything and everything to help me. unfortunately i wasted a lot of time reading about removing defaults by asking for a copy of the default notices and the genuine signed credit agreement not realising mobile phone contracts are not covered by the CCA oh well, never mind!!!!!!!

    So I am starting this thread to chart my progress in getting the default and the late payment markers removed from my credit history, also to get some help from you lovely folk too

    History and Background to the case

    I have recently reviewed my credit reports, to my horror there is currently a default and late payment marker raised by T-Mobile against my name which has severely impacted my credit score and my ability to get a mortgage.

    The Default refers to a T-mobile phone contract (contract started 21/03/2006, default dated 10/10/2014, amount allegedly owed £121). The contract in question I had for a period of over 8 years, in which I had renewed the original credit agreement three times for new phone upgrades (to the best of my recollection) and never missed a payment (experian and callcredit report confirm this). The last credit agreement was for a period of 2 years, which had expired in November/December of 2013 (rough dates due to it being 3 years ago but i do remember ringing to find out at the time). In the following February of 2014 I had called T-mobile to inform them that I was cancelling the contract. In the same phone call i was asked if i wanted my PUC code to take the number away with me. I 'like an idiot' said yes thinking maybe i would like keep my number (i obviously didn't) not realising that this act would ultimately overwrite the cancellation of the contract. I did not know this at the time as the operator did not inform me (only found out since after researching similar stories), something i suspect is a bit of a customer retention scam he/they were running at the time .

    At the time I continued with my life completely oblivious to the above fact as i thought the date of cancellation was outside the renewed credit agreement so the contract should have ended immediately for that calendar month, not realising the sneaky PUC code would !!!!!! me !!!!!!. I had also moved in with my then girlfriend (now my wife), so life was great. This meant the cancellation coincided with a change of address, at the time I did not inform T-mobile of my change of address as I had ended the contract, silly me .

    At the time of the alleged payment delinquency/default the contract was no longer valid as I had contacted T-mobile to cancel it (so i thought). The dates were also outside of agreed 2 year credit agreement for my last phone upgrade meaning that I had fully paid for the handset and also no calls or texts were made using that account after the cancellation, so therefore I was being charged for nothing and didn't know about it as i had changed address.

    Initial Steps Taken So far

    So i have gotten my experian CRF and my Callcredit file, currently struggling with my equifax one (free trial membership registration a pain in the asre at the minute). I have asked both experian and Callcredit to query the default. so far only experian have gotten back to me with the usual
    T-Mobile (Account started 21/03/2006)
    They've confirmed that this information is accurate, so I'm afraid I can't make any changes to it.
    They have provided us with the following information:

    "We have looked into customer's account and can confirm that account has outstanding balance of £121.17. This is for invoices from March 2014 to August 2014, which remained unpaid. Customer can make a payment by calling us on 08454 121 124."I understand that this may not be the outcome you were hoping for. If you'd like to discuss their decision, you should contact them directly. Their contact details are:

    Credit Referrals EE PO BOX 616 550 Metroplex Business Park Salford M5 0HN Email: IDFraud@t-mobile.co.uk

    Don't worry, if they send us any further instructions regarding this matter, we will do as they ask. this I thought was quite funny though lol

    Our standard dispute statement will be removed from this information shortly. If you'd still like there to be a dispute statement on this information, I can add the following:

    "The consumer has disputed the accuracy of this entry. Given that this data is disputed, please take care if making an assessment of any kind that may include this data."

    Please let me know if you'd like this statement to be added to your report, where it will stay until you ask us to remove it.

    Alternatively, you can add your own statement to this information. We call this a 'Notice of Correction'. If you'd prefer to add one of these, please let us know, in writing, the exact wording that you'd like to use. Please note that we can't add a statement that is longer than 200 words or one we think is defamatory, frivolous, scandalous or unsuitable for publication for some other reason.

    If you require any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.
    So now am in the process of drafting a note of correction to have added to the default. So far I'm thinking the below wording.

    " default/late payment markers in dispute, client was outside of original credit agreement and had phoned vender to cancel contract February 2013, however, vendor continued try and raise monthly bill, error not spotted due to change in address at time of cancellation"

    Opinions and comments on this would be really appreciated here!!!!!!

    Next Steps

    I am drafting both an email and a letter to be sent via recorded delivery to T-mobile (above addresses in the coms from experian)

    So far I'm thinking of the below

    "Account in dispute- T-Mobile account phone no. 07########4

    Dear Sir/Madame,

    I have recently reviewed my credit reports, to my horror there is currently a default and late payment markers raised by T-Mobile against my name which has severely impacted my credit score and my ability to get a mortgage.

    The Default refers to a T-mobile phone contract (Tel no. 07#######4 contract started 21/03/2006, default dated 10/10/2014, amount allegedly owed £121). The contract in question I had for a period of over 8 years, in which I had renewed the original credit agreement three times for new phone upgrades (to the best of my recollection). The last credit agreement was for a period of 2 years, which had expired in November/December of 2013 (your records will confirm this). In the following February of 2014 I had called T-mobile to inform you that I was cancelling the contract. As this date was outside the renewed credit agreement this should have taken place immediately for that calendar month, however, it appears that T-mobile have continued trying to raise a bill even though I had informed T-mobile that I was cancelling the account. My phone records for this account will show no usage after I had informed T-mobile I was cancelling the account. The date of the expiry of the credit agreement and the time I cancelled the contract also coincide with a change of address, at the time of cancelling the contract I did not inform T-mobile of my change in address as I had ended the above mentioned contract.

    I feel this default as well as the late payment markers should be removed from my CRF as it is incorrect and an unfair representation of my credit history, especially since I had been an excellent customer with T-mobile for the whole 8 years the contract was active for. At the time of the alleged payment delinquency/default the contract was no longer valid as I had contacted T-mobile to cancel it. The dates were also outside of agreed 2 year credit agreement for my last phone upgrade meaning that I had fully paid for the handset and also no calls or texts were made using that account after the cancellation, so therefore I was being charged for nothing.

    I have contacted Experian, Equifax, and CallCredit and have asked them to place a note of correction on this default. Can you please arrange for this default to be remove from my credit reports from the above mentioned credit report agencies forthwith. Recording false and inaccurate information on Credit Reference Files is a breach of the Data Protection Act 1998, and may also constitute an act of defamation on your part.

    I really appreciate you looking into this matter and look forward to your response.

    Best regards,

    Dr. fistatron"
    I'm not sure If this letter is too heavy handed, also I don't know whether I should mention the PUC code or not?
    My other option would be to try a softer approach and ask to resolve the matter, this may include the offer to paid the amount allegedly owed on condition that the default/late payments are removed from my CRFs. I don't really think I should do this because
    • I genuinely believe they are at fault and I do not owe them anything
    • it will be a sign that I'm accepting liability for the alleged debt
    • they might go back on they word and refuse to remove the late payments and the default even if I get it in writing.
    Am really troubled by this initial communication as it is going to set the tone for the eventually resolution/non-resolution. I'm worried that if I go too hard they will go to the mattresses and tell me to bring it, or if I go too soft they'll try and string me along get the money and leave me high and dry.
    I would really like some input from you guys on what you recommend and if my approach so far is any good or not.
    Many thanks in advance guys/girls!!!!!
Page 2
    • Fistatron
    • By Fistatron 18th Aug 16, 6:48 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Fistatron
    So I received an email from Lowell customer services email below

    Hello Ryan,

    Thank you for your email.

    For security purposes can you please provide your date of birth?

    Once this information is received I will be happy to help.

    Kind regards

    Dan
    Customer Services Lowell Group
    I don't see why they needed my date of birth for a security check? I'm guessing this is just an attemp for them to fish info out of me (even though it is not relavent). Anyway tin foil hats aside the point is I had told them not to contact me without evidence of a thorough investigation or valid justification

    Here is my reply below.
    Dear Dan,

    The previous email was only a notification that the attached PDF had been sent via recorded delivery (letter received this morning according to online tracking) and in copy to EE's credit referrals department.

    If not already made clear in the below email and written communication (received 18/08/16) please do not contact me concerning the aforementioned account unless you can provide evidence as to my liability and the validity of the debt in question.

    Any further attempt to contact me without evidence of a thorough investigation as to the validity of the alleged debt or without a valid justification, will be seen as a form of harassment that will be reported to the appropriate authorities.

    All future communications made to me from Lowell group/portfolio I ltd must be in writing and include valid evidence of investigation as to the validity/liability of the alleged debt. This will also negate the need for any future security check.

    I thank you in advance for your future cooperation with the above request.

    Yours faithfully,

    Fistatron, Ph.D
    Both letters that were sent yesterday were received and signed for.
    • Fistatron
    • By Fistatron 19th Aug 16, 12:42 AM
    • 23 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Fistatron
    The only shocking thing about all of this is how you have not ended up with a CCJ (sorry, and your reply! Threatening to get them done for harassment in reply to a data protection question! A bit heavy I must say.).

    To add something constructive:

    I think it is clear that you've admitted SOME liability in this thread, however big or small. But your letters seem to suggest you have zero liability?

    If you are disputing it, you should focus on the TANGIBLE evidence you have. Did the telephony agent mislead you? (not mentioning it MAY be evidence, but if it is clear that a PUC would provide you with a service which is normally paid for then I think it is fairly reasonable to assume a cost is attached to it even if you didn't clock on to that at the time - you're only human ). What about the Ts and Cs about keeping the PUC? I think you need to be focusing solely on this. Challenge them on the process and get a concrete answer. Stop waffling about all sorts of things! And stop writing like you are writing a dissertation

    Also:

    "please do not contact me concerning the aforementioned account unless you can provide evidence as to my liability and the validity of the debt in question. "

    - Umm, why do they need to prove anything to you? They are effectively invoicing you an amount to pay. If liability needs to be established then surely they take you to court for this? Could land you with a CCJ depending on how you act.


    I think your approach is too heavy and you run the risk of shutting down communication with the company. The best way to deal with it is:

    1. Keep your emails/letters short and to the point, NOT quoting consumer law etc in excessive detail (reference to a certain thing is fine!).

    2. Comply with data protection requests.

    3. Too many chefs spoil the broth. Don't send confirmation emails if you are sending a letter!

    4. Outline what you want and what time frames are involved.


    Personally, I see your signature and hone in on the "PhD" thing (the Dr is fine! Like really!). Comes across as quite pretentious (and not that impressive) if I'm being honest and I'm sure "Dan" from customer service feels similarly. Remember, but Dan is your ally and he just wants an easy ride on his min wage grind. If you make it hard then he will make it hard
    Originally posted by daytona0
    Hey Daytona,

    You have a point, I think am reacting quite badly at the minute to the whole situation :-S.

    Do you think I should send another email first thing to diffuse the situation and explain the above and that I would like to resolve the situation.

    I now realise that I could be potentially backing my self into a corner here.
    • Fistatron
    • By Fistatron 24th Aug 16, 1:08 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Fistatron
    weird???? daytona's replies have magically disappeared ????

    UPDATE

    After taking on board Daytona's comments, and also appreciating that getting "dan" on side might make my life easier i sent the following.

    Dear Dan,

    On reflection my previous email was very hardline, please accept my apology.

    I'm finding this whole situation very scary and upsetting at the minute and I believe I have reacted badly.

    Moving forward I would to resolve this situation.

    In that light of the above, my date of birth is the XXth of X XXXX.

    I really do hope you can help in this matter.

    Best regards,

    Fistatron
    I then received the following reply from "Dan"

    Hello fistatron,

    Thank you for your reply.

    I appreciate your comments, and I understand that this can be a daunting experience for you. Please be assured that we will take all reasonable steps to be fair and transparent with you in regard to this issue. If you do have any concerns in this regard, please let me know and I will be happy to assist you further.

    Reference XXXXXXX – T-Mobile (UK) Ltd – Balance £121.17

    I have requested a full statement of payments for the above account from the original creditor. Please note that the balance requested for payment is a service agreement and not a credit agreement as defined by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Our client has no obligation to provide a signed agreement under the provisions of the Act.

    In the case of mobile contracts, inserting the SIM card and usage of the equipment is taken as acceptance of the terms and conditions of the contract. Telecommunications accounts can be obtained by telephone, over the internet and by mail order and therefore, we are not obliged to provide you with a copy of any such agreement.

    Your account remains on hold and we have suspended collections activity until you have had time to receive the statement of payments and get back to us. This is generally within 60 days, although it can take longer.

    If you need any further help in the meantime then please let me know.

    Kind regards

    Dan
    interestingly Dan says the following
    "In the case of mobile contracts, inserting the SIM card and usage of the equipment is taken as acceptance of the terms and conditions of the contract."
    If i get my phone records from the time it will show no usage of the call time, texts, or data after the point i had cancelled the contract. Also the handset itself had already fully been paid for as the original 24 months agreement had expired!!

    Anyway i have received another email from EE/T-mobile now which i have replied to either yet

    Our Ref: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    Dear Mr Fistatron

    Thanks for your recent letter in relation to your account.

    I can confirm that your account has an outstanding balance of £121.17. This is for invoices from 04/14 to 09/14, which remains unpaid.

    You can make a payment by calling us on 08454 121 124 quoting your mobile number 07852-180674 or alternatively you can write a cheque payable to EE and send it to the following address:

    EE
    PO Box 238
    SHEFFIELD
    S98 1PS

    If you decide to pay by cheque, please write your account number on the back and allow five working days for the payment to reach the relevant department.

    Once the payment is received, your account will be shown as a satisfied account on the next automatic monthly update. Any payments that were paid late will also show on your credit file and may affect your ability to gain credit.

    Further, your query related to account and dept letter, please call our Customer Service team on 08454 125 000, and they’ll be happy to help.

    Thanks again for contacting us.
    Ashwini Bidrewadi
    Credit Referrals Underwriter
    Credit Referrals
    Now am stuck with how to proceed!!!
    • firstly i don't know who owns the debt?
    • Who is now responsible for reporting to the CRAs? I've checked with experian and the debt is still listed to T-mobile
    • how do i get them to confirm who is responsible for what so that i can adequately go about disputing the alleged debt

    not sure how to do find the answers to the above
    • daytona0
    • By daytona0 27th Aug 16, 10:01 PM
    • 2,043 Posts
    • 2,377 Thanks
    daytona0
    Apologies for my posts being removed. In truth, the mods have threatened me with a final warning so I'm not long for this forum. Thought it wise to remove a number of posts because I won't be able to if perma banned. Glad you took away something though

    Sounds like they have sold the debt on, but they are just eager to have it settled.

    The debt will always come up as T-mobile on CRAs, but you'll be chased by the third party. I am not sure if CRAs will record defaults (if you don't pay or keep to plans) for T-mobile or the collection company.

    The only realistic way I can think of [for disputing the debt] is to write to both companies and state "I do not owe this debt because of xxx". Then it would be up to either of those companies to take you to court, which is your opportunity to provide evidence that shows you do not owe the debt.

    As they said in one of those emails, you have only been invoiced at this stage! You aren't technically obliged by law to pay at this stage!

    For an easy life mate I'd just offer them £10 a week/month or just the balance. Sure it is a blip, but a lot of reputable mortgage providers would be eager to listen to your explanation if you have an otherwise perfect credit rating.

    I would recommend making two more posts on this forum. One in the mortgage part, to see what effect this would have, and another in the consumer rights part to see what rights you have.


    As a side note, but I recently cancelled a phone contract on live chat for my nan (she was present, so dpa was passed, but the guy was unaware that he was speaking to me). It was for T-mobile as well They asked me no less than 6 times whether I was sure that she wanted to cancel! Absolutely mental! I was trying to pretend to type like an elderly lady, but I lost me rag at one point According to my nan they even rung her a day after to nag her on the phone One thing they did ask me was whether I wanted a PUC code.... and I asked my nan and she was up for keeping her phone number. But I remembered this thread... And that was that. So thank you as well You have helped me out (good deed), even if you're in the mire on this one.
    Last edited by daytona0; 27-08-2016 at 10:06 PM.
    • LearnMore
    • By LearnMore 11th Mar 17, 8:59 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    LearnMore
    Hi
    I fully understand. I have been in dispute with Talk Mobile for months. They also put late payment on my credit file. This was done while taking to the ombudsman. Which was a waste of time . Talk Mobile refused to give me my account details., so I thought by going to the Ombudsman I would get them - wrong! They only gave them " vague" details which they knew would result in me not winning my case. I got advise from this site, money advise service ( government based) and CAB. You can also try Information of Commissioners. I am in the process of trying to get " Notice of correction" on my credit score to. It seems that despite all the so called laws to protect the consumer it seems to go against them 9/10. I wish you good luck and don't give up.
    • DCFC79
    • By DCFC79 11th Mar 17, 9:17 AM
    • 28,709 Posts
    • 18,131 Thanks
    DCFC79
    Hi
    I fully understand. I have been in dispute with Talk Mobile for months. They also put late payment on my credit file. This was done while taking to the ombudsman. Which was a waste of time . Talk Mobile refused to give me my account details., so I thought by going to the Ombudsman I would get them - wrong! They only gave them " vague" details which they knew would result in me not winning my case. I got advise from this site, money advise service ( government based) and CAB. You can also try Information of Commissioners. I am in the process of trying to get " Notice of correction" on my credit score to. It seems that despite all the so called laws to protect the consumer it seems to go against them 9/10. I wish you good luck and don't give up.
    Originally posted by LearnMore
    Thread is from last year mind so the OP has probably got it all sorted.
    Je Suis Charlie
    • GingerBob
    • By GingerBob 11th Mar 17, 10:14 AM
    • 3,618 Posts
    • 1,642 Thanks
    GingerBob
    Hi
    I fully understand. I have been in dispute with Talk Mobile for months. They also put late payment on my credit file. This was done while taking to the ombudsman. Which was a waste of time . Talk Mobile refused to give me my account details., so I thought by going to the Ombudsman I would get them - wrong! They only gave them " vague" details which they knew would result in me not winning my case. I got advise from this site, money advise service ( government based) and CAB. You can also try Information of Commissioners. I am in the process of trying to get " Notice of correction" on my credit score to. It seems that despite all the so called laws to protect the consumer it seems to go against them 9/10. I wish you good luck and don't give up.
    Originally posted by LearnMore

    And it will continue to go against them while certain companies have the privilege of being able to use CRA databases as blackmailing tools.
    • Ben8282
    • By Ben8282 12th Mar 17, 2:51 AM
    • 1,629 Posts
    • 639 Thanks
    Ben8282
    Long OP.
    Short answer.
    It's your own fault.
    By your own admission you cancelled the direct debit prior to cancelling the contract.
    Why do people do this?
    There are so many posts here about problems caused by people cancelling direct debits.
    I understand that even if the account is out of contract a 28 days notice period is still required so there would have been at least 1 more payment to make after you cancelled the direct debit.
    So what did you do ... first you cancelled the direct debit, later you phoned and cancelled the contract after which you promptly moved away to a new address and never even bothered to check the account online again.
    Obtaining the PUC code probably has nothing to do with anything.
    Last edited by Ben8282; 12-03-2017 at 6:40 AM.
    • nic_c
    • By nic_c 12th Mar 17, 2:25 PM
    • 687 Posts
    • 433 Thanks
    nic_c
    Hi
    I fully understand. I have been in dispute with Talk Mobile for months. They also put late payment on my credit file. This was done while taking to the ombudsman. Which was a waste of time . Talk Mobile refused to give me my account details., so I thought by going to the Ombudsman I would get them - wrong! They only gave them " vague" details which they knew would result in me not winning my case. I got advise from this site, money advise service ( government based) and CAB. You can also try Information of Commissioners. I am in the process of trying to get " Notice of correction" on my credit score to. It seems that despite all the so called laws to protect the consumer it seems to go against them 9/10. I wish you good luck and don't give up.
    Originally posted by LearnMore
    The problem is many people don't realise that mobiles are service contracts and fail to read T&C's. What details? Its like people wanting details of all calls made that they've been charged for and complain because they never paid for itemised billing but expecting the telcos to keep records.
    If its a late payment marker, do you have proof you paid on time? Surely if you did then that would have resolved it.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

2,751Posts Today

7,432Users online

Martin's Twitter