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  • FIRST POST
    • Jo4
    • By Jo4 5th Aug 16, 5:41 PM
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    Jo4
    Parking Eye - Parking Notice Charge for parking in Aldi, Bangor
    • #1
    • 5th Aug 16, 5:41 PM
    Parking Eye - Parking Notice Charge for parking in Aldi, Bangor 5th Aug 16 at 5:41 PM
    I read this link which hasn't been updated since 4th August 2014 but I don't know what to do, http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/protect/2014/08/dont-pay-unfair-private-parking-tickets.

    Hubby & I were on our way to get the ferry home last week to Northern Ireland when my blood glucose dropped suddenly and as a result I needed to get something to eat to put it up again. We stopped at the first place we could which was in Aldi in Bangor. When my blood glucose returned to normal levels we continued our journey to the ferry and just made it in time. However we have now received a "Parking Notice Charge" from Parking Eye informing us that we should have entered our details in a terminal inside Aldi but we don't do this in Northern Ireland, we didn't know we had to as we didn't notice it on the sign and we didn't see the terminal either. It states "By remaining at the car park for longer than was permitted in accordance with the terms and conditions set out in the signage, the Parking Charge is now payable to Parking Eye Ltd as the Creditor)".

    The fine is £40 if paid within 14 days of the date issued: 12/08/2016 and after this date £70 will have to be paid. We have never had anything like this before and I was wondering how should we proceed, should we pay the £40? Will this affect our credit files?
    Aiming for 18 NSDs in November 2016 - 9 / 14
    January 2016 - 22; February - 15; March - 22; April - 18; May - 23; June - 19; July (Holidays) - 8; August - 21; September - 22; October - 18
Page 6
    • Jo4
    • By Jo4 19th Sep 16, 4:13 AM
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    Jo4
    Appeal submitted there now.
    Aiming for 18 NSDs in November 2016 - 9 / 14
    January 2016 - 22; February - 15; March - 22; April - 18; May - 23; June - 19; July (Holidays) - 8; August - 21; September - 22; October - 18
    • Jo4
    • By Jo4 11th Oct 16, 9:41 PM
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    • 4,752 Thanks
    Jo4
    Yesterday evening we received an email from no-reply.popla@parkingeye.co.uk with a 49 page document attached,

    "Dear Sir/Madam,

    Please find attached all information sent to POPLA in relation to the above reference number.

    Yours faithfully

    ParkingEye Team"



    Less than an hour later we received the following email,

    "Dear Xxxx Xxxx

    Your parking charge appeal against Parking Eye Ltd.

    We have now received Parking Eye Ltd’s case file. If you have not received your copy then please contact Parking Eye Ltd directly.

    You have seven days from the date of this correspondence to provide comments on this file. You can do this on the track existing appeal area of our website.

    Any comments that you make after this time may not be considered as part of the appeal process.

    Once this time has passed we will progress the appeal for assessment. We will let you know when this happens.

    Yours sincerely

    POPLA Team".



    I didn't know this was part of the process, I didn't see anything about this on the website. What are we supposed to do now?
    Aiming for 18 NSDs in November 2016 - 9 / 14
    January 2016 - 22; February - 15; March - 22; April - 18; May - 23; June - 19; July (Holidays) - 8; August - 21; September - 22; October - 18
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 11th Oct 16, 9:53 PM
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    Umkomaas
    You need to rebut anything that you disagree with, or that is plainly 'wrong'. Anything not challenged can be taken by POPLA as you agreeing with it.

    You cannot add new appeal points now, but go to town on anything that's included in the evidence pack.

    Here's an excellent example of how one poster dealt effectively and comprehensively with a PPC's Evidence Pack. I'm sure this will give you plenty of ideas on how to handle your case.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=67385911&posted=1#post67385911

    And another one to consider.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=67402366&postcount=26

    And a further one.

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/13uLICVZ13MeT7Q_4qzJUIyAn-jtVJUIVeCaaINpI2U8/mobilebasic

    And more recent ones.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=69765991#post69765991

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=70246824#post70246824

    Please note, these examples are now a little dated in the context of the fast moving world of private parking, so you need to be careful about blindly copying and pasting anything that 'looks good', and especially in the context of Beavis. But they do provide an insight into how to make a start on your rebuttal.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Oct 16, 10:06 PM
    • 40,322 Posts
    • 52,165 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Be aware this is a chance to comment on their 'evidence'. So, have a look at it, compare it to your appeal (did they answer EVERYTHING WELL? - NOPE) and pick it apart! Not another 'appeal' but a concise statement of how they have failed to disprove your apeal points.

    You could easily have found this is what happens, by reading other POPLA cases here. Umkomaas found cases in seconds.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Jo4
    • By Jo4 11th Oct 16, 10:08 PM
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    • 4,752 Thanks
    Jo4
    You need to rebut anything that you disagree with, or that is plainly 'wrong'. Anything not challenged can be taken by POPLA as you agreeing with it.

    You cannot add new appeal points now, but go to town on anything that's included in the evidence pack.

    Here's an excellent example of how one poster dealt effectively and comprehensively with a PPC's Evidence Pack. I'm sure this will give you plenty of ideas on how to handle your case.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=67385911&posted=1#post67385911

    And another one to consider.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=67402366&postcount=26

    And a further one.

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/13uLICVZ13MeT7Q_4qzJUIyAn-jtVJUIVeCaaINpI2U8/mobilebasic

    And more recent ones.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=69765991#post69765991

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=70246824#post70246824

    Please note, these examples are now a little dated in the context of the fast moving world of private parking, so you need to be careful about blindly copying and pasting anything that 'looks good', and especially in the context of Beavis. But they do provide an insight into how to make a start on your rebuttal.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    Thank you for such a prompt response.

    I will read all those links tomorrow. The photos they used are from 2014 where as the ones we made reference to were independent, Google maps, and were from this year therefore more up to date. |They have included all correspondence they sent to us and us to them. They also have blank pages in the 48 page document.
    Aiming for 18 NSDs in November 2016 - 9 / 14
    January 2016 - 22; February - 15; March - 22; April - 18; May - 23; June - 19; July (Holidays) - 8; August - 21; September - 22; October - 18
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Oct 16, 10:11 PM
    • 40,322 Posts
    • 52,165 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    The photos they used are from 2014 where as the ones we made reference to were independent, Google maps, and were from this year therefore more up to date.
    Great - that's one bullet point for your rebuttal straight away.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 11th Oct 16, 10:12 PM
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    • 16,332 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    They also have blank pages in the 48 page document
    No need to rebut those then!
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • Jo4
    • By Jo4 11th Oct 16, 10:16 PM
    • 6,565 Posts
    • 4,752 Thanks
    Jo4
    Be aware this is a chance to comment on their 'evidence'. So, have a look at it, compare it to your appeal (did they answer EVERYTHING WELL? - NOPE) and pick it apart! Not another 'appeal' but a concise statement of how they have failed to disprove your apeal points.

    You could easily have found this is what happens, by reading other POPLA cases here. Umkomaas found cases in seconds.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    I did read some other POPLA cases but I didn't see this mentioned. When I sign into POPLA it states a 4 stage process,

    1 Your Information and Evidence

    2 Operator Information and Evidence

    3 POPLA Assessment

    4 Decision

    At the moment I am trying to help someone else, as usual, despite not getting good news myself today after yet another visit to the doctors, if only I had good health.
    Aiming for 18 NSDs in November 2016 - 9 / 14
    January 2016 - 22; February - 15; March - 22; April - 18; May - 23; June - 19; July (Holidays) - 8; August - 21; September - 22; October - 18
    • Jo4
    • By Jo4 11th Oct 16, 10:21 PM
    • 6,565 Posts
    • 4,752 Thanks
    Jo4
    Great - that's one bullet point for your rebuttal straight away.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    I shouldn't have any appointments tomorrow, fingers crossed that the phone doesn't ring with an urgent appointment or that they have discovered something more yet again.

    That one was very obvious but we'll hopefully go through it tomorrow and find a lot more points.

    Will they then get the chance to reply to what we say this time?
    Aiming for 18 NSDs in November 2016 - 9 / 14
    January 2016 - 22; February - 15; March - 22; April - 18; May - 23; June - 19; July (Holidays) - 8; August - 21; September - 22; October - 18
    • Jo4
    • By Jo4 11th Oct 16, 10:22 PM
    • 6,565 Posts
    • 4,752 Thanks
    Jo4
    No need to rebut those then!
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    If only all 48 pages were like that.
    Aiming for 18 NSDs in November 2016 - 9 / 14
    January 2016 - 22; February - 15; March - 22; April - 18; May - 23; June - 19; July (Holidays) - 8; August - 21; September - 22; October - 18
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 11th Oct 16, 10:32 PM
    • 10,952 Posts
    • 16,332 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Will they then get the chance to reply to what we say this time?
    Nope, this isn't a never ending ping-pong game.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • Jo4
    • By Jo4 11th Oct 16, 10:36 PM
    • 6,565 Posts
    • 4,752 Thanks
    Jo4
    Nope, this isn't a never ending ping-pong game.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    Brilliant, one thing less to worry about!!
    Aiming for 18 NSDs in November 2016 - 9 / 14
    January 2016 - 22; February - 15; March - 22; April - 18; May - 23; June - 19; July (Holidays) - 8; August - 21; September - 22; October - 18
    • Jo4
    • By Jo4 16th Oct 16, 1:01 PM
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    • 4,752 Thanks
    Jo4
    I have been unwell again and I have to get this sorted today. They emailed on the evening of Monday 10th October so does that mean I have until lunch time on Monday 17th October to respond?
    Aiming for 18 NSDs in November 2016 - 9 / 14
    January 2016 - 22; February - 15; March - 22; April - 18; May - 23; June - 19; July (Holidays) - 8; August - 21; September - 22; October - 18
    • Jo4
    • By Jo4 16th Oct 16, 1:04 PM
    • 6,565 Posts
    • 4,752 Thanks
    Jo4
    Section B: Case Summary Copy of any Terms / Conditions
    Rules and Conditions
    This site is a 1.5 hour free stay customer car park when a customer enters their registration into the terminal within the store as clearly stated on the signage (enclosed). There are 13 signs, placed at the entrance, exit and throughout the site stating the terms and conditions.

    Evidence G
    System generated print out showing that the motorist vehicle registration number does not appear in our systems on the date of the event.

    Please find enclosed a witness statement signed on behalf of the landowner showing that on the date of the parking event ParkingEye had authority to issue and pursue a Parking Charge to this vehicle.

    Authority
    ParkingEye can confirm that the above site is on private land, is not council owned and that we have written authority to operate and issue Parking Charge Notices at this site from the landowner (or landowner’s agent).

    It must also be noted that any person who makes a contract in his own name without disclosing the existence of a principal, or who, though disclosing the fact that he is acting as an agent on behalf of a principal, renders himself personally liable on the contract, is entitled to enforce it against the other contracting party. (Fairlie v Fenton (1870) LR 5 Exch 169). It follows that a lawful contract between ParkingEye and the motorist will be enforceable by ParkingEye as a party to that contract.



    Further Information
    The signage on site clearly sets out the terms and conditions and states that;

    "By parking, waiting or otherwise remaining within this private car park, you agree to comply with these terms and conditions and are authorised to park, only if you follow these terms and conditions"

    "If you fail to comply, you accept liability to pay the fee for unauthorised parking"

    ParkingEye operates a grace period on all sites, which gives the motorist time to enter a car park, park, and establish whether or not they wish to be bound by the terms and conditions of parking. These grace periods are sufficient for this purpose and are fully compliant with the BPA code of practice.

    ParkingEye ensures that all its signage is clear, ample, and in keeping with the British Parking Association (BPA) regulations.

    The signage at this site demonstrates adequate colour contrast between the text and the backgrounds advised in the BPA Code of Practice, you will note the colour contrast at this site is black text on yellow background.

    Initially, ParkingEye would like to state that we are a leading user of ANPR Technology. We ensure that our cameras, technology and processes are of the highest quality, and have built up this expertise with almost 10 years of experience of using ANPR cameras. We ensure that we use the best cameras, and that these are expertly configured.

    We have also developed a robust process for handling the data and ensuring the accuracy of the system. ParkingEye is regularly required to provide data taken from these ANPR cameras for Police investigations.

    Once ParkingEye has installed the cameras, signage and other technology at a site, we will test the system extensively before Parking Charges are issued on site. This involves allowing the site to function normally without Parking Charges being issued, to ensure that the system is functioning correctly.

    The British Parking Association Code of Practice contains guidelines for the use of ANPR cameras at Section 21. We comply fully with this;
    21.1 – ParkingEye uses ANPR cameras in a reasonable, consistent and transparent manner. All signage contains the universally recognised symbol for the use of these cameras, and it is made clear that ANPR technology is in use on site.
    21.2 – All data undergoes a multiple stage checking process, undertaken by trained ParkingEye staff to ensure that Parking Charges are issued correctly.
    21.3 – All ANPR equipment is monitored and kept in good working order. A central team of trained Technical Support Engineers proactively monitor the performance of all systems to ensure the accuracy of data collected. Automated monitoring and alerting ensure potential issues are highlighted and dealt with quickly along with data management routines to ensure affected data does not result in a Parking Charge being issued. Dedicated mobile engineers respond to physical faults which require on-site resolution with testing periods to ensure equipment is configured and working to our high standards. Equipment is selected and deployed to ensure a reliable and robust solution which performs consistently and accurately.
    Physical and logical access to data is restricted and processed securely. Full auditing of user access and actions ensures clear and full accountability. Dedicated server facilities are protected by named user access control systems.
    ParkingEye has passed the relevant and most recent BPA audit.
    21.4 – ParkingEye complies with all of the relevant guidelines including those set out by the ICO, DVLA and CO.
    21.5 – The Notices to Keeper comply with Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.
    ParkingEye’s Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) cameras and software are fully compliant with the British Parking Association Code of Practice. We ensure that the cameras are checked regularly by both automated routines and Technical Support Engineers to ensure that they are in good working order, and that they are producing accurate data. We have passed both our British Parking Association and DVLA audits and follow all DVLA requirements concerning the data that we obtain.
    Images recorded by the ANPR (Automatic Number Plate Recognition) systems are time-stamped at source. The ANPR servers use NTP to regularly verify the accuracy of the local time clock with any adjustments being logged thus ensuring that all images are captured and stamped with an accurate time and date. Network Time Protocol (NTP) is a widely used standard to accurately synchronise computer time over wide area networks. Institutions that use NTP technology include; HM Revenue & Customs, The Metropolitan Police, NASA, Inland Revenue, The Land Registry, RBS, NASDAQ, Buckingham Palace, GlaxoSmithKline, Deutsche Bank, BBC, NHS, BAE Systems, BT, HP, DELL and the Bank of England. We firmly believe that these time-stamped images are accurate.
    Any time deviance detected on the ANPR servers generates an automatic alert monitored by the Technical Support Team at ParkingEye Head Office. If at any stage of the process the ANPR cameras are found to be deviating, Parking Charges are not issued. There are automated and manual checks to ensure that the cameras are accurate.
    It is important to note that cameras and ANPR servers are directly attached as an integrated solution situated on-site therefore ensuring the accuracy of the ANPR read and associated date-timestamp. Transactional data and images are recorded locally before batch transfer to our central systems.
    There is no evidence to suggest that a Parking Charge has been issued incorrectly, and ParkingEye goes to great lengths to ensure that all Parking Charges are issued correctly. The data taken from the Automatic Number Plate Recognition cameras is sent to ParkingEye, where it undergoes a checking process of up to 19 stages. This ensures that no errors have been made. There are various other procedures in place to ensure that Parking Charges are issued correctly, and there is no reason to believe that an error has occurred in this case.
    Aiming for 18 NSDs in November 2016 - 9 / 14
    January 2016 - 22; February - 15; March - 22; April - 18; May - 23; June - 19; July (Holidays) - 8; August - 21; September - 22; October - 18
    • Jo4
    • By Jo4 16th Oct 16, 1:06 PM
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    • 4,752 Thanks
    Jo4
    Section C: Parking Charge Notice & Any notes of the operative
    This section contains the correspondence from them to us.
    Aiming for 18 NSDs in November 2016 - 9 / 14
    January 2016 - 22; February - 15; March - 22; April - 18; May - 23; June - 19; July (Holidays) - 8; August - 21; September - 22; October - 18
    • Jo4
    • By Jo4 16th Oct 16, 1:10 PM
    • 6,565 Posts
    • 4,752 Thanks
    Jo4
    Section D: Registered Keeper Details & Liability Trail
    This section has the Case Detail which contains the following sub sections Case Details; Contact Details; Vehicle Details and Financial. It also shows the photographs of our vehicle entering and existing the car park.
    Aiming for 18 NSDs in November 2016 - 9 / 14
    January 2016 - 22; February - 15; March - 22; April - 18; May - 23; June - 19; July (Holidays) - 8; August - 21; September - 22; October - 18
    • Jo4
    • By Jo4 16th Oct 16, 1:11 PM
    • 6,565 Posts
    • 4,752 Thanks
    Jo4
    Section E: Original Representation & Notice of Rejection
    This section shows our original appeal and their rejection.
    Aiming for 18 NSDs in November 2016 - 9 / 14
    January 2016 - 22; February - 15; March - 22; April - 18; May - 23; June - 19; July (Holidays) - 8; August - 21; September - 22; October - 18
    • Jo4
    • By Jo4 16th Oct 16, 1:14 PM
    • 6,565 Posts
    • 4,752 Thanks
    Jo4
    Section F: Images, photographs, plans, etc.
    This section shows their signs and photographs which are dated 03/11/2014. It also shows their layout plan of the car park.
    Aiming for 18 NSDs in November 2016 - 9 / 14
    January 2016 - 22; February - 15; March - 22; April - 18; May - 23; June - 19; July (Holidays) - 8; August - 21; September - 22; October - 18
    • Jo4
    • By Jo4 16th Oct 16, 1:32 PM
    • 6,565 Posts
    • 4,752 Thanks
    Jo4
    Section G: Other Evidence
    This section contains a "Whitelist Lookup" of our vehicle registration which states "No results". I have never heard of a "Whitelist Lookup" before now and I do not know if it is supposed to contain any results?!?!

    It also contains a Witness Statement,

    "On behalf of Aldi Stores Limited I confirm that:

    1 The site is ALDI Bangor.

    2 The Landholder is Aldi Stores Limited, who has a proprietary interest in this site.

    3 The Operator is ParkingEye Ltd.

    4 The Operator has written authority from the Landholder to undertake parking management, control and enforcement at this site, under contract.

    5 The Operator had authority to issue a Parking Charge for the Parking Event dated 25 July 2016, under this written agreement.

    6 The Operator is authorised by the Landholder to issue parking charge notices where vehicles are parked on the site in a manner not permitted under the terms and conditions of parking.

    7 The terms and conditions are as clearly set out on signage at the site and, where applicable, with any permit or dispensation for use at the site.

    8 The issue of parking charge notices is subject to the agreed criteria and exemptions, as clearly set out on signage at the site and, where applicable, with any permit or dispensation for use at the site.

    9 The Operator is authorised to issue a parking charge notice for breach of any of the terms and conditions referred to above.

    10 The Operator is authorised by the Landholder to pursue the outstanding parking charges in accordance with the British Parking Association Approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice.

    I confirm that I am authorised to make this statement on behalf of the Landholder and that the above information is true to the best of my knowledge and belief.

    Signature:

    Name:

    Position:

    For and on behalf of Aldi Stores Limited

    Date:"
    Aiming for 18 NSDs in November 2016 - 9 / 14
    January 2016 - 22; February - 15; March - 22; April - 18; May - 23; June - 19; July (Holidays) - 8; August - 21; September - 22; October - 18
    • Jo4
    • By Jo4 16th Oct 16, 3:47 PM
    • 6,565 Posts
    • 4,752 Thanks
    Jo4
    Section B: Case Detail
    PE state "Site ALDI Bangor, LL57 2RT" however according to Royal Mail’s website and Aldi's own website the stores postcode is actually LL57 2RW.
    https://www.aldi.co.uk/store/s-uk-E0259
    Aiming for 18 NSDs in November 2016 - 9 / 14
    January 2016 - 22; February - 15; March - 22; April - 18; May - 23; June - 19; July (Holidays) - 8; August - 21; September - 22; October - 18
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