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  • FIRST POST
    • aajax42
    • By aajax42 4th Aug 16, 7:08 PM
    • 51Posts
    • 5Thanks
    aajax42
    MoneyFarm or funny farm?
    • #1
    • 4th Aug 16, 7:08 PM
    MoneyFarm or funny farm? 4th Aug 16 at 7:08 PM
    MoneyFarm, Italy-based FinTech company, Robo investing.Get £20k managed free with MoneyFarm.

    I just wondered if anyone has had any dealings with this company and what your views are?
Page 1
    • masonic
    • By masonic 4th Aug 16, 7:14 PM
    • 9,126 Posts
    • 6,273 Thanks
    masonic
    • #2
    • 4th Aug 16, 7:14 PM
    • #2
    • 4th Aug 16, 7:14 PM
    It's FSCS protected and the headline charges look about where they should be, so no immediate alarm bells. This offering looks on the surface to be preferable to the likes of Nutmeg, but that's just based on a quick look.

    It looks to me that it's only the first £10k that is managed for free.
    • aajax42
    • By aajax42 4th Aug 16, 7:18 PM
    • 51 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    aajax42
    • #3
    • 4th Aug 16, 7:18 PM
    • #3
    • 4th Aug 16, 7:18 PM
    They are offering a code through money observer at the moment that gives £20k managed free.
    • colsten
    • By colsten 4th Aug 16, 10:51 PM
    • 8,721 Posts
    • 7,382 Thanks
    colsten
    • #4
    • 4th Aug 16, 10:51 PM
    • #4
    • 4th Aug 16, 10:51 PM
    The name reminds me of Animal Farm.
    • badger09
    • By badger09 5th Aug 16, 9:54 AM
    • 5,123 Posts
    • 4,338 Thanks
    badger09
    • #5
    • 5th Aug 16, 9:54 AM
    • #5
    • 5th Aug 16, 9:54 AM
    The name reminds me of Animal Farm.
    Originally posted by colsten
    All Robo Investing companies are equal, but some Robo Investing companies are more equal than others
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 5th Aug 16, 10:22 AM
    • 89,502 Posts
    • 54,962 Thanks
    dunstonh
    • #6
    • 5th Aug 16, 10:22 AM
    • #6
    • 5th Aug 16, 10:22 AM
    How long does the £20k free last for?

    A number of the robo-advice companies have poor financials. Their model is to be achieve a certain amount under management and aim to be bought by a larger player. So, it may well make sense to remain under the FSCS limit or make sure the money you invest is money that you are not likely to need to call upon should the worst happen (failure would mean you are unlikely to lose money. Just lose access to it for a while whilst administration is sorted.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from a Financial Adviser local to you.
    • peter_333
    • By peter_333 26th Aug 16, 1:47 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    peter_333
    • #7
    • 26th Aug 16, 1:47 PM
    • #7
    • 26th Aug 16, 1:47 PM
    Hi aajax42. Is that a public code for MoneyFarm? Is it still valid? Could you share it?
    • moneyfoolish
    • By moneyfoolish 26th Aug 16, 3:21 PM
    • 450 Posts
    • 261 Thanks
    moneyfoolish
    • #8
    • 26th Aug 16, 3:21 PM
    • #8
    • 26th Aug 16, 3:21 PM
    This offering looks on the surface to be preferable to the likes of Nutmeg, but that's just based on a quick look.
    Originally posted by masonic
    Why does it look better than Nutmeg?
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 26th Aug 16, 3:42 PM
    • 89,502 Posts
    • 54,962 Thanks
    dunstonh
    • #9
    • 26th Aug 16, 3:42 PM
    • #9
    • 26th Aug 16, 3:42 PM
    Why does it look better than Nutmeg?
    Originally posted by moneyfoolish
    Have you seen Nutmeg's financial state?
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from a Financial Adviser local to you.
    • moneyfoolish
    • By moneyfoolish 26th Aug 16, 4:02 PM
    • 450 Posts
    • 261 Thanks
    moneyfoolish
    Have you seen Nutmeg's financial state?
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    No. I assume it's not great from your comment. But is MoneyFarm likely to fare any better?
    • masonic
    • By masonic 26th Aug 16, 7:02 PM
    • 9,126 Posts
    • 6,273 Thanks
    masonic
    Why does it look better than Nutmeg?
    Originally posted by moneyfoolish
    I was looking mainly at the charges. Nutmeg's funds have not performed very well in part because it has quite high charges.

    No. I assume it's not great from your comment. But is MoneyFarm likely to fare any better?
    Originally posted by moneyfoolish
    Nutmeg has been loss making from the outset, which is perhaps not unusual for such a venture in the first few years, but Nutmeg's losses have been increasing each year (>£5m was the figure I last saw). So either Nutmeg is doing something wrong, or the market isn't there to support such a product.

    In some sense, this isn't of great concern to a user of the service, since their investments will have FSCS protection if they keep within the £50k compensation limit. There is, of course, the inconvenience associated with having to go elsewhere if the service is withdrawn.

    Edit: Of course the other thing to consider is that a loss making venture may need to hike its charges in order to move into profit, perhaps after luring in a suitable number of apathetic customers who won't be bothered to go elsewhere.
    Last edited by masonic; 26-08-2016 at 7:05 PM.
    • jnm21
    • By jnm21 13th Jan 17, 3:16 PM
    • 633 Posts
    • 161 Thanks
    jnm21
    Just looking to find some feedback on Moneyfarm having signed up and being unimpressed looking at the trend graphs of the funds they have given me.

    The worst is seemingly a low risk one that the graph of shows minimal gains followed by sharp losses, which repeats exactly many times over about 5 years, showing an overall loss. I may not be an experienced investor, but I am confident in saying I don't want a bar of it!

    Of the 7 given to me, there is 1 that given the choice I would want, but most of the 'better' ones seem to have done little or worse lost money over a number of years and turned in good gains in 6 to 18 months to make a decent return over the 3 to 5 year history. My concern is that this could make them a good investment if recent gains continue, but equally I worry that they may be overpriced and suffer a correction.

    Oh and the final quandry for me is holding 3% in cash, which appears to be on a deposit basis with no potential to do anything other than depreciate.

    I am not reacting to the 0.33% loss over the first few days, but it did make me keen to see the longer term trends which are what has me worried. From my limited knowledge I expected an upward trend with a few wobbles along the way and a lower smoother pitch for the lower risk ones.

    Am I wrong to be worried?
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 13th Jan 17, 5:03 PM
    • 2,884 Posts
    • 4,126 Thanks
    Malthusian
    Is this actual past performance of their portfolios or is it some kind of simulated performance for the level of risk being taken?

    All investment portfolios will have some good years, some flat years and the occasional crap years. Depending on the equity content and the asset allocation, the higher risk ones will suffer larger swings in value and larger falls but should deliver higher returns overall. With a robo-flogger like MoneyFarm the decision should in theory be based purely on how much risk you are prepared to accept. Not on past performance. If you want to pick funds based on past performance then you're on the wrong platform, leaving aside the question of whether that is a good idea or not.

    There is not really enough information in your post to go on to say whether their portfolios have done well or not. They are probably OK, i.e. they are unlikely to deliver catastrophic underperformance or permanent and irrecoverable losses, as long as you do not panic and cash out. However if you want a simple diversified investment that requires relatively little investor input there are better options available. E.g. the board's darling Vanguard Lifestrategy on a cheap DIY platform.
    • jnm21
    • By jnm21 13th Jan 17, 5:31 PM
    • 633 Posts
    • 161 Thanks
    jnm21
    Thanks - you obviously know the topic & you have reassured me.

    There are between 3 and 5 years history shown for each of the funds (I assume that they are real history).

    EDIT: Looks like it is real history. The first one I described is ISIN LU0321464652 which does have 5 years history having googled it.
    Last edited by jnm21; 13-01-2017 at 5:37 PM. Reason: See EDIT
    • murmeltier
    • By murmeltier 13th Jan 17, 8:53 PM
    • 82 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    murmeltier
    The one ETF you were looking at - LU0321464652 - is the dbx Sterling Cash ETF which invests in the money market.

    The "sharp losses" you refer to I believe are when the ETF goes ex-div.

    E.g. on 1/4/2016 the ETF paid out 2.1818 per ETF and the nav dropped around that date by £2.18 from £185.58 to £183.40

    This is fully expected, is not an actual "loss" and does not reflect badly on this particular ETF.
    • Little Miss Moneysaver
    • By Little Miss Moneysaver 19th Apr 17, 10:16 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    Little Miss Moneysaver
    My experience with MoneyFarm
    Hello all,
    Just thought i'd share my personal experience in investing with MoneyFarm - incase it helps anyone out there.

    Like everyone else, i was getting fed up of low interest rates even on fixed-rate savings bonds.
    I would like to retire someday, so couldn't see how 1% or 2% interest rate was going to facilitate this. (Assuming interest rates didn't suddenly shoot up, and the new "normal" interest rates were going to hover around the 1-2% mark, instead of the old 6% mark).

    So, after reading up a Lot on investing, i decided it was the way forward.
    However, the problem with reading about investing, the more you know, the more "paralysis by analysis" you get also!

    Anyway, I opened a Moneyfarm (General investment account), a year ago, and gradually drip-fed about £90k into it. I decided to keep an excel spreadsheet, and every week or so, just kept tabs on the performance of my Moneyfarm account.

    The volatility on my portfolio, has ranged from 10% Up, to -0.02% Down (depending on the day i logged in to look at my account) over the past year.
    I am investing with a 10+year horizon in mind, so i know there will be up's and down's in the valuation. But over the 10+ years, i would expect to fare better than stick the money in a cash fixed rate savings account.

    After reading the Vanguard Life Strategy thread elsewhere on this website, I also have a Stock & Shares ISA investing in Vanguard Lifestrategy 60%.
    I have about £30k invested within the ISA wrapper. I chose Cavendish Online as the platform, due to the Low Platform fees, and also the ease of using Cavendish's website.
    Yes, i know Cavendish's website looks a bit old-fashioned, but i liked the transparency of their pricing structure, and how easy it was to add fund to basket, and pay for it.
    The volatility of my Vanguard Portfolio also ranged from up to down (depending on the day i logged in to look at my account).

    I am not a techno geek, nor a math geek, so i was looking for a simple investment path, with minimal hassle, but likely good results over the long run.

    I have to say i really like how my account is displayed on MoneyFarm. It tells me at a glance, how much i've paid in, how much my investment is worth, and which ETF's it's all invested in.
    The staff have answered any questions quite quickly via email, and i like clicking on the graphs, which show the trend that my money has taken over the past year.

    The downside is that it does cost more than the passive Vanguard tracker via Cavendish - but i feel i can sleep at night knowing that someone else is also keeping an eye on that £90k (and it's not all my responsibility).

    In comparison, I got a quote from an IFA to use their own discretionary platform, and the IFA's fees for that were a shocking 2.75% - which made Moneyfarm look cheap in comparison!

    Furthermore, i know that rebalancing is important and MoneyFarm does this automatically for you (twice so far in one year). Which is great, because i have no idea how one would do this manually!

    My Vanguard Lifestrategy fund thankfully also rebalances itself, so it's still a keeper within my Stocks & Shares ISA.

    If anyone does know how to manually rebalance, feel free to post here - as i do have a small amount of money in a 'model portfolio' which doesn't rebalance itself, so I have ignored that pot for now!

    Anyway, apologies for the long post (i tend to read posts, but rarely post on one).
    I just thought i'd share my personal experience with Moneyfarm (which has been positive) - in my baby steps into the world of investing.
    • Eco Miser
    • By Eco Miser 20th Apr 17, 10:30 PM
    • 2,984 Posts
    • 2,763 Thanks
    Eco Miser
    If anyone does know how to manually rebalance, feel free to post here - as i do have a small amount of money in a 'model portfolio' which doesn't rebalance itself, so I have ignored that pot for now!
    Originally posted by Little Miss Moneysaver
    http://monevator.com/how-to-rebalance-portfolio/
    One of many useful articles from the Monevator team.
    Eco Miser
    Saving money for well over half a century
    • elephantrosie
    • By elephantrosie 21st Apr 17, 2:29 AM
    • 364 Posts
    • 102 Thanks
    elephantrosie
    liking this post. please post more about moneyfarm. im thinking of opening an account with them.
    • elephantrosie
    • By elephantrosie 21st Apr 17, 2:45 AM
    • 364 Posts
    • 102 Thanks
    elephantrosie
    They are offering a code through money observer at the moment that gives £20k managed free.
    Originally posted by aajax42
    code please?
    • Little Miss Moneysaver
    • By Little Miss Moneysaver 23rd Apr 17, 11:01 AM
    • 23 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    Little Miss Moneysaver
    Thank you Eco Miser for your help + Monevator's articles & books
    http://monevator.com/how-to-rebalance-portfolio/
    One of many useful articles from the Monevator team.
    Thanks very much Eco Miser - for the article on Rebalancing!
    Your helpfulness is much much appreciated!

    The truth is, I had already come across that article on Monevator's website in the past - in all my reading/research into investing vs. just saving in fixed rate cash bonds.

    However, i don't quite understand the nuts-and-bolts on how to actually do it - from a mathematical point of view, especially since doing major mathematical calculations is not my strong point!

    So, on the model portfolio that is listed on Cavendish Online's website, which i have some money in, but been ignoring since i found Moneyfarm and Vanguard Lifestrategy:

    a) any advice on how i figure out which funds have done well vs. poorly over the past few years, and

    b) how exactly do i sell part of the funds that have done well, and transfer that money to the ones that have done more poorly?

    c) I understand that all asset classes don't go up at the same time - which is why a diversified portfolio is important. But don't understand how to figure out what has / has not done well - for rebalancing purposes!

    d) This is one of the reasons Moneyfarm and Vanguard Lifestrategy appealed so much - they did all the math that i don't know how to do!

    Apologies if i come across as a dum-dum, but i don't work in the financial services world - so all this investing business is very new (and bit scary) to me.
    I've just been lucky to have a well paying job, so over the years just taken the safe route of saving with cash.

    I have read other articles on the Monevator's website. What a clever clever man!! How does he know all this intricate stuff?!

    I can't say i've understood all the content on his website - as some of it is way beyond my basic understanding.

    However, for anyone else out there in my position, i did download Monevator's books onto my kindle via Amazon.
    These were amazingly well written, clear, basic language, and easy to understand for the newbie. I can't recommend them enough!
    Look on Amazon for "John Hulton" - his 2 books on DIY Pensions, and DIY Simple Investing, are superb.

    Hope that helps anyone else out there
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