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  • FIRST POST
    • Detta
    • By Detta 2nd Aug 16, 9:26 PM
    • 17Posts
    • 5Thanks
    Detta
    PCN after time limit - PLEASE HELP
    • #1
    • 2nd Aug 16, 9:26 PM
    PCN after time limit - PLEASE HELP 2nd Aug 16 at 9:26 PM
    Please if anyone can advise me. I received a PCN which was over the time limit from what I read in the forum. It was issued 18 days after the event, I counted from the day after the event and I only counted Mondays to Fridays (no public holidays in between), it was delivered 3 days later. I wrote to the company, not naming the driver, stating 'The Notice to Keeper failed to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of the POFA Act 2012. The Notice to Keeper was not delivered to the keeper within the prescribed timescale; not within a period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended'. And specifying the dates. I first received a letter back which took 6 days to arrive and was basically a reminder of the but it arrived 1 day after the 14 day discount ended. And they quoted the Beavis case (which is nothing to do with my case). I wrote back stating they did not acknowledge my first letter (which I sent again) and obviously they had not read the contents. They had replied saying the appeal is unsuccessful and gave a POPLA code. I would like to know:
    1-What happens if the POPLA appeal in unsuccessful?
    2-Is it enough if I appeal to POPLA with the above reason only?
    3-Do I have to provide the recorded delivery receipts (although their letter dates show it was issued 18 days later)?
    Please help and thank you for any advice.
Page 2
    • Detta
    • By Detta 3rd Aug 16, 8:23 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Detta
    I forgot to add in my original posting that when they sent me the letter saying my internal appeal was unsuccessful, they said that as a goodwill gesture they have extended the discounted period for a further 14 days from the date of correspondence.

    Does that make a difference to anything? Lateness of the first notice, pursuing the owner, driver etc?
    • Detta
    • By Detta 3rd Aug 16, 8:43 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Detta
    I am sorry to be a pain but I keep reading things about all this as I am preparing to do an appeal and I am so confused about what I should or shouldn't include.

    I read that in the NTK (and I am assuming mine is) should include:
    'State whether a notice to the driver was given either to the driver or placed on the vehicle and if so to repeat the information in that notice about paying the parking charge and when'
    and
    'Warn the keeper that if the parking charges remains outstanding after 28 days and the name and address of the driver has not been given, or otherwise known to the person entitled to the parking charge, that “creditor” will be entitled to recover the parking charge from the registered keeper'

    I am not sure as what I received has a large bit at the top that says 'parking charge amount due £70, payment to be made within 28 days of date issued (then gives date of when by)'

    And in the letter it says: 'As we do not know the driver's name or current postal address, if you were not the driver at the time, you should tell us the name and current postal address of the driver and pass this notice to them'
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 3rd Aug 16, 9:09 PM
    • 4,124 Posts
    • 4,736 Thanks
    beamerguy
    No not lease or hire.

    Please can you advise on:

    How can they find the driver?

    Also do you think I should ask them for the contractual evidence that they had the authority to issue PCN's? For the POPLA appeal? I thought since they have not complied with the 14 day bit then that should be good enough by itself?
    Originally posted by Detta
    They cannot find the driver unless you tell them.

    It is very sad that the New POPLA fail to understand this industry and constantly make seriously wrong mistakes.

    The "14 day bit" will go over their head as New POPLA HAS NO UNDERSTANDING
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 3rd Aug 16, 9:19 PM
    • 4,124 Posts
    • 4,736 Thanks
    beamerguy
    [/I]And in the letter it says: 'As we do not know the driver's name or current postal address, if you were not the driver at the time, you should tell us the name and current postal address of the driver and pass this notice to them'
    Originally posted by Detta
    They don't know, they never will so simply ignore them, its just a scam ,,,,, would your give you bank details to someone you do not know ???? of course not,

    If you feel naughty, you could reply, "none of your business"

    Or, you could say "if I gave you this information, as it's private, I would have to kill you"

    See how stupid and simple these drongos are
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 4th Aug 16, 3:37 AM
    • 10,984 Posts
    • 16,388 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    How can they find the driver?
    Only by you telling them!

    Also do you think I should ask them for the contractual evidence that they had the authority to issue PCN's
    You use the (blue text) initial appeal from post #1 of the newbies FAQ sticky. Don't alter in any way.

    I thought since they have not complied with the 14 day bit then that should be good enough by itself?
    It might be (but at POPLA, not right now) if you follow advice from the sticky, once you receive the rejection of your initial appeal from PE. But you will add many other appeal points in too - as you do your research over the coming days, you will learn about the additional points you will need to raise at the POPLA stage.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • Detta
    • By Detta 5th Aug 16, 7:57 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Detta
    Thank you. I will do the research and form an appeal letter and hopefully I can review it with members on this board if that is allowed. And if yes, do I post it on this thread or start a new one?
    • Detta
    • By Detta 5th Aug 16, 8:05 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Detta
    They have already sent me a POPLA code with their letter of unsuccessful appeal. In my letter I didn't ask for the contractual evidence that they had the authority to issue PCN's. So is it too late to do so now?

    Shall I just put it in my appeal to POPLA?
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 6th Aug 16, 9:47 AM
    • 5,561 Posts
    • 4,272 Thanks
    The Deep
    If they do not know the driver, why not just ignore then (unless they make the ill advised and expensive mistake of issuing a claim).

    Are Beamish and I the only ones who can see the wood from the trees here?
    Last edited by The Deep; 06-08-2016 at 10:21 AM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Aug 16, 3:26 PM
    • 40,469 Posts
    • 52,374 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    They have already sent me a POPLA code with their letter of unsuccessful appeal. In my letter I didn't ask for the contractual evidence that they had the authority to issue PCN's. So is it too late to do so now?

    Shall I just put it in my appeal to POPLA?
    Originally posted by Detta
    You worry me because you seem to be all over the place at a simple stage - POPLA appeal.

    Why did you not complain ONLINE to Aldi Head Office, showing them proof that the family are regular Aldi shoppers or asking them to check their/PE's ANPR records which will show regular patronage of Aldi? Any receipts or bank statements showing patronage in recent months would help get his cancelled by Aldi. And they CAN AND DO check if you ask them, that a car is a frequent visitor and therefore frequent shopper (if you are).

    No-one told you to complain in-store. Aldi should be complained to Head Office. They DO cancel these for Aldi shoppers. Stop thinking you need that single receipt, if you can't find it you could even have asked the Store manager to re-print it, you know! Still can - you can get these reprinted easily if you have the approx time, the exact date (PCN proves that) and an idea of till used and/or purchases made and total spent. But only worth getting it if it was for over £30. If not, do as I advised above and think of other ways to show Aldi you are genuine.

    And secondly, as regards the POPLA appeal there are LOADS of Aldi ones to copy from (make sure they are 2016 versions only). Search this forum board for 'Aldi POPLA' and you can use them as your base.

    Show us first, you appear to need help to nail this. But also do the Aldi HO online complaint. Don't ask for a link, it's Googleable.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 09-08-2016 at 3:29 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Detta
    • By Detta 2nd Oct 16, 1:45 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Detta
    I would like to thank everyone who helped me. Thank you so very much.

    I would like to post regarding the appeal and its success to try to help others. Please let me know if I should do it here?

    Thank you.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 2nd Oct 16, 8:41 PM
    • 40,469 Posts
    • 52,374 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes you can post your success here - we'd love to see it - well done!
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Detta
    • By Detta 10th Oct 16, 7:52 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Detta
    First of all I would like to again thank all of you kind people for your help. I hope this will help.

    I kept the appeal simple. I just wrote:

    As the keeper of the vehicle and that 'The Notice to Keeper failed to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of the POFA Act 2012. The Notice to Keeper was not delivered to the keeper within the prescribed timescale; not within a period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended.' And I detailed all the dates from the alleged parking date and included all the dates of the correspondence with the company.

    The decision was:
    Section 21.9 of the British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice states “it’s the driver’s responsibility to pay the PCN”. The operator in this case has issued a PCN to the keeper of the vehicle, and I am therefore satisfied that the keeper of the vehicle is entitled to appeal the validity of the PCN. I note that the operator has referenced that they are not attempting to transfer the liability for the PCN from the driver of the vehicle to the keeper of the vehicle using the Protections of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA 2012), and so in its mind, the operator continues to hold the driver responsible. As such, I must first consider whether I am confident that I know who the driver of the vehicle is, based on the evidence that I have received. After considering the evidence, I am unable to confirm that the appellant is in fact the driver of the vehicle. As such, I must allow the appeal on the basis that the operator has failed to demonstrate that the appellant is the driver and therefore liable for the charge.

    Thank you all. Good luck to all.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th Oct 16, 8:32 PM
    • 40,469 Posts
    • 52,374 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Good stuff - but as a warning to others doing POPLA appeals, that was a dangerous tactic not to be copied. POPLA could easily have missed that point that the driver had not been identified and we now have a template appeal point covering exactly that (search 'individual POPLA' and you will find it's in lots of recent POPLA appeals now).

    I am glad POPLA spotted the issue.


    Also perturbed that the Assessor actually thought the service of a NTK (or not) was relevant to whether a keeper can appeal or not:
    The operator in this case has issued a PCN to the keeper of the vehicle, and I am therefore satisfied that the keeper of the vehicle is entitled to appeal the validity of the PCN.
    OMG, POPLA Assessors, get a grip. The keeper can ALWAYS appeal unless the driver has previously been admitted (name and address). Never mind if a NTK was served or just a PCN, a keeper is ALLOWED to be the appellant.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Detta
    • By Detta 10th Oct 16, 9:52 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Detta
    I agree. I didn't intend to appeal on that point, I pointed out that it was not valid as they did not keep to the timing of schedule 4 (which wasn't even addressed). However, I think I was lucky.
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