Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@. Skimlinks & other affiliated links are turned on

Search
  • FIRST POST
    jamesd
    P2P: Lendy, formerly called Saving Stream (AKA SavingStream)
    • #1
    • 2nd Aug 16, 7:32 PM
    P2P: Lendy, formerly called Saving Stream (AKA SavingStream) 2nd Aug 16 at 7:32 PM
    This is a discussion for things specific to the Lendy peer to peer lending platform, formerly called Saving Stream, to make it easier to find those as distinct from more general P2P discussions.

    Lendy typically does the ubiquitous property development loans seen in the P2P world at the moment. Interest rates were typically 12% but these days seem priced to attract the money needed based on size rather than risk. All loans are secured on some sort of physical asset.

    TOPICS: generic P2P, Ablrate, Lendy (formerly Saving Stream), MoneyThing.
    Last edited by jamesd; 13-04-2017 at 1:18 PM. Reason: Add rebrand to Lendy for P2P investing to title and post, update interest rates/risk description
Page 9
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 13th Apr 17, 5:25 PM
    • 9,989 Posts
    • 6,388 Thanks
    bigadaj
    Thats an improvement from 21% to 17% on troubled loans
    Originally posted by mr._prude
    On one level but you'd need to do more analysis than that.

    Depending on whether you are defending or criticising them then a range of other criteria could be assessed including number of loans, time in default, whatever that actually means given the platforms interpretation, value of loans or security, actual value of security given the apparently questionable valuation reports, consideration of the provision fund, etc
    • masonic
    • By masonic 14th Apr 17, 6:11 PM
    • 9,126 Posts
    • 6,273 Thanks
    masonic
    TOPICS: Lendy (formerly Saving Stream)
    Originally posted by jamesd
    I can't take credit for the acronym, but I prefer Lendy (originally Saving Stream).

    Oh, and in other news, the steel-framed office block valued at £2,870,000, on the market for £1,250,000, but purchased two and a half years ago for £875,000, has not received any offers according to the latest update.
    Last edited by masonic; 14-04-2017 at 6:16 PM.
    • Empor
    • By Empor 17th Apr 17, 12:37 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Empor
    I've not put any new money into Lendy for a while now, and reading some of the comments here has made me nervous so I thought I'd try and reduce my holding.

    However my "negative balance" is quite high. I'm not too sure how this works. I thought that prefunding that isn't taken up is cancelled within 48 hours. But what I think is happening now is that any of my sales on the SM are being allocated to other investments to reduce the negative balance, so effectively I can't reduce my exposure easily. There are far cleverer people on here than I am... does this sound correct? Or is there anything I can do? (I did change my prefunding allocation to zero several weeks ago).
    • masonic
    • By masonic 17th Apr 17, 3:08 PM
    • 9,126 Posts
    • 6,273 Thanks
    masonic
    However my "negative balance" is quite high. I'm not too sure how this works. I thought that prefunding that isn't taken up is cancelled within 48 hours. But what I think is happening now is that any of my sales on the SM are being allocated to other investments to reduce the negative balance, so effectively I can't reduce my exposure easily. There are far cleverer people on here than I am... does this sound correct? Or is there anything I can do? (I did change my prefunding allocation to zero several weeks ago).
    Originally posted by Empor
    You are supposed to make a transaction to clear any negative balance within 24 hours. There is no guarantee Lendy will cancel loan parts you have bought. So you'd be best off selling enough to clear the negative balance if you don't want to transfer money in. But if you do transfer money in to make your balance positive, you'll be able to sell the recently purchased loan parts, which you would be unable to sell while you are in negative balance.
    • JohnRo
    • By JohnRo 21st Apr 17, 5:37 PM
    • 2,427 Posts
    • 2,179 Thanks
    JohnRo
    Code:
    Asset Details        % Book       Asset value        Loan Value    % pa     LTV
      
    In Default            4.92%    £13,490,000.00     £9,071,500.00   12.00%  67.25%
    
    Interest Accruing     8.02%    £22,780,000.00    £14,777,000.00   12.00%  64.87%
    
    Interest Serviced     3.49%    £12,755,000.00     £6,426,107.00   12.00%  50.38%
    
    Interest on Account  83.57%   £386,052,083.00   £153,999,140.00   11.65%  39.89%
    
    Loan Book Total     100.00%   £435,077,083.00   £184,273,747.00   11.69%  42.35%
    'We don't need to be smarter than the rest; we need to be more disciplined than the rest.' - WB
    • mr._prude
    • By mr._prude 21st Apr 17, 5:46 PM
    • 92 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    mr._prude
    The Trouble loan amount in £s is roughly the same. It's not really improving, they are just adding more loans. Would really need to see this value come down before I would reinvest with Lend tbh.
    Last edited by mr._prude; 21-04-2017 at 6:02 PM.
    • JohnRo
    • By JohnRo 3rd May 17, 7:53 PM
    • 2,427 Posts
    • 2,179 Thanks
    JohnRo
    Code:
    Asset Details        % Book       Asset value        Loan Value    % pa     LTV
      
    In Default            6.19%    £16,360,000.00    £11,071,500.00   12.00%  67.67%
    
    Interest Accruing     7.14%    £19,910,000.00    £12,777,000.00   12.00%  64.17%
    
    Interest Serviced     3.40%    £11,770,000.00     £6,079,750.00   11.43%  51.65%
    
    Interest on Account  83.27%   £381,232,083.00   £149,000,351.00   11.61%  39.08%
    
    Loan Book Total     100.00%   £429,272,083.00   £178,928,601.00   11.66%  41.68%
    'We don't need to be smarter than the rest; we need to be more disciplined than the rest.' - WB
    • JohnRo
    • By JohnRo 23rd May 17, 3:49 PM
    • 2,427 Posts
    • 2,179 Thanks
    JohnRo
    Things look to have stabilised at SS, I will only post new updates if there's a big change in the ratios. Not sure it's serving much purpose but at least it gives some historic perspective.

    I'm tempted to start using SS again.

    Code:
    Asset Details        % Book       Asset value        Loan Value    % pa     LTV
      
    In Default            5.98%    £15,910,000.00    £10,756,500.00   12.00%  67.61%
    
    Interest Accruing     7.74%    £21,695,000.00    £13,937,250.00   12.00%  64.24%
    
    Interest Serviced     1.97%     £7,230,000.00     £3,537,500.00   11.73%  48.93%
    
    Interest on Account  84.31%   £380,817,083.00   £151,720,806.00   11.59%  39.84%
    
    Loan Book Total     100.00%   £425,652,083.00   £179,952,056.00   11.65%  42.28%
    Last edited by JohnRo; 23-05-2017 at 3:52 PM.
    'We don't need to be smarter than the rest; we need to be more disciplined than the rest.' - WB
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 24th May 17, 8:02 PM
    • 9,989 Posts
    • 6,388 Thanks
    bigadaj
    Things look to have stabilised at SS, I will only post new updates if there's a big change in the ratios. Not sure it's serving much purpose but at least it gives some historic perspective.

    I'm tempted to start using SS again.

    Code:
    Asset Details        % Book       Asset value        Loan Value    % pa     LTV
      
    In Default            5.98%    £15,910,000.00    £10,756,500.00   12.00%  67.61%
    
    Interest Accruing     7.74%    £21,695,000.00    £13,937,250.00   12.00%  64.24%
    
    Interest Serviced     1.97%     £7,230,000.00     £3,537,500.00   11.73%  48.93%
    
    Interest on Account  84.31%   £380,817,083.00   £151,720,806.00   11.59%  39.84%
    
    Loan Book Total     100.00%   £425,652,083.00   £179,952,056.00   11.65%  42.28%
    Originally posted by JohnRo
    I've been keeping an eye on p2pindeoendentforum and as you say things appear to have improved. Some large repayments and the defaults reduced and potentially improved.

    Personally happy with Moneything, Ablrate and collateral, and most of those platforms are scaling up with apparently better due diligence. The flip side at Lendy is that whilst deal flows keep on coming the valuation reports are often questionable, the newer loans are starting to head below 10% in several cases and the risk that the outstanding defaults could leave to platform failure.
    • JohnRo
    • By JohnRo 1st Jul 17, 12:48 PM
    • 2,427 Posts
    • 2,179 Thanks
    JohnRo
    Code:
    Asset Details        % Book       Asset value        Loan Value    % pa     LTV
      
    In Default           12.26%    £35,440,000.00    £23,267,500.00   12.00%  65.65%
    
    Interest Accruing     1.93%     £7,520,000.00     £3,669,750.00   12.00%  48.80%
    
    Interest Serviced     9.47%    £26,390,000.00    £17,958,890.00   11.76%  68.05%
    
    Interest on Account  76.34%   £380,001,583.00   £144,828,185.00   11.55%  38.11%
    
    Loan Book Total     100.00%   £449,351,583.00   £189,724,325.00   11.63%  42.22%
    'We don't need to be smarter than the rest; we need to be more disciplined than the rest.' - WB
    • economic
    • By economic 1st Jul 17, 1:39 PM
    • 1,737 Posts
    • 869 Thanks
    economic
    Code:
    Asset Details        % Book       Asset value        Loan Value    % pa     LTV
      
    In Default           12.26%    £35,440,000.00    £23,267,500.00   12.00%  65.65%
    
    Interest Accruing     1.93%     £7,520,000.00     £3,669,750.00   12.00%  48.80%
    
    Interest Serviced     9.47%    £26,390,000.00    £17,958,890.00   11.76%  68.05%
    
    Interest on Account  76.34%   £380,001,583.00   £144,828,185.00   11.55%  38.11%
    
    Loan Book Total     100.00%   £449,351,583.00   £189,724,325.00   11.63%  42.22%
    Originally posted by JohnRo
    thats a big jump in number in default. any reason why?
    • JohnRo
    • By JohnRo 1st Jul 17, 2:02 PM
    • 2,427 Posts
    • 2,179 Thanks
    JohnRo
    I have no insight into exactly why, it's simply a function of the pipeline loans, contract lengths and repayment delays.

    Perhaps the easiest explanation is the best, that defaulted borrowers are low quality and should have been better vetted in the first place.

    I don't have any access to information about how much of a haircut, on average, defaulted lenders are having to endure, or how long it might take, on average to get some or all of their defaulted loan capital back.

    If the 12%+ default rate persists then it suggests the juicy 12% pa interest is not nearly as attractive as it appears. Simply covering the default costs, assuming a loan length of one year, doesn't sound like much of a proposition to me.

    There's always the SM of course, palm off loans prior to maturity and pocket the interim interest. There doesn't seem to be any mechanism to price in the default risk there so it's a simple, no cost fix, assuming a buyer can be found.

    That's what I was doing before walking away from SS a few months ago but keeping an eye on their progress.
    'We don't need to be smarter than the rest; we need to be more disciplined than the rest.' - WB
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 2nd Jul 17, 7:37 AM
    • 9,989 Posts
    • 6,388 Thanks
    bigadaj
    thats a big jump in number in default. any reason why?
    Originally posted by economic
    It's almost wholly a function of the loan length. Their definition of defaults is after 180 days of non payment, so if you look at the previous analysis and add the defaults with the interest accruing the totals aren't that different.

    Lendy do seem to have had a little more success in recovery and their offered rates have increased slightly back into double figures, which was necessary to get new loans away with the increased risk that seems to exist.

    The secondary market has also shrunk slightly but little else has improved.

    I've no regrets at pulling out a few months ago eventhough my invested sum was only low four figures at the time, there's definitely better options for your money out there.
    • economic
    • By economic 2nd Jul 17, 7:42 AM
    • 1,737 Posts
    • 869 Thanks
    economic
    It's almost wholly a function of the loan length. Their definition of defaults is after 180 days of non payment, so if you look at the previous analysis and add the defaults with the interest accruing the totals aren't that different.

    Lendy do seem to have had a little more success in recovery and their offered rates have increased slightly back into double figures, which was necessary to get new loans away with the increased risk that seems to exist.

    The secondary market has also shrunk slightly but little else has improved.

    I've no regrets at pulling out a few months ago eventhough my invested sum was only low four figures at the time, there's definitely better options for your money out there.
    Originally posted by bigadaj
    Can you list the p2p platforms you recommended please? I'm trying to increase my investment in p2p and finding it difficult to determine which are the good ones (risk reward is attractive). Thanks
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 2nd Jul 17, 4:51 PM
    • 9,989 Posts
    • 6,388 Thanks
    bigadaj
    I'm currently in Moneything, Ablrate and collateral. All are good so far, but dyor and I don't invest in every loan they offer, but do in most. I'm using diversification as a key element of reducing risk, and currently have a low five figure sum in p2p in total.

    I've not suffered a formal default yet, though there is a property loan on Moneything that is being restructured, though they seem confident of getting out with no investor loss.

    Similarly the container loan has a slight cloud over Ablrate but I had no sum in this so haven't followed it fully.

    The difficulty in virtually all platforms is that they start by offering diverse security but once they grow and want to play with the big boys then property pretty much always becomes a key element for the larger loans. So by proxy investing in p2p becomes supported by either commercial or residential property at larger values. To be fair Ablrate do a better job of diversification, having started with aircraft loans and now offering plant and capital equipment backed options, a yacht recently etc
    • bottleandahalf
    • By bottleandahalf 3rd Sep 17, 6:49 PM
    • 97 Posts
    • 36 Thanks
    bottleandahalf
    Hi
    I have several loans with days remaining in the minus e.g time remaining -34 days. Does this mean that the loan has defaulted?

    I have not received any interest on all my loans this month by the looks of it.
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 3rd Sep 17, 7:46 PM
    • 9,989 Posts
    • 6,388 Thanks
    bigadaj
    Hi
    I have several loans with days remaining in the minus e.g time remaining -34 days. Does this mean that the loan has defaulted?

    I have not received any interest on all my loans this month by the looks of it.
    Originally posted by bottleandahalf
    There's a rather fluid definition of default on Lendy.

    Do these loans have SBL, IA or IOA descriptors, or any other similar label?
    • JohnRo
    • By JohnRo 7th Sep 17, 11:55 AM
    • 2,427 Posts
    • 2,179 Thanks
    JohnRo
    Code:
    Asset Details        % Book       Asset value        Loan Value    % pa     LTV
      
    In Default           13.15%   £ 39,860,000.00   £ 24,937,750.00   12.00%  62.56%
    
    Interest Accruing    11.76%   £ 39,790,000.00   £ 22,289,279.00   12.00%  56.02%
    
    Interest Serviced     0.00%   £             0   £             0       0%      0%
    
    Interest on Account  75.09%   £361,644,055.00   £142,357,049.00   11.62%  39.36%
    
    Loan Book Total     100.00%   £441,294,055.00   £189,584,078.00   11.67%  42.96%
    'We don't need to be smarter than the rest; we need to be more disciplined than the rest.' - WB
    • bottleandahalf
    • By bottleandahalf 7th Sep 17, 8:08 PM
    • 97 Posts
    • 36 Thanks
    bottleandahalf
    There's a rather fluid definition of default on Lendy.

    Do these loans have SBL, IA or IOA descriptors, or any other similar label?
    Originally posted by bigadaj
    Hi, where do we find these labels please?
    Thanks
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 8th Sep 17, 5:17 AM
    • 9,989 Posts
    • 6,388 Thanks
    bigadaj
    Hi, where do we find these labels please?
    Thanks
    Originally posted by bottleandahalf
    The post above yours.

    It should also say on your loans sheet.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

201Posts Today

1,672Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • RT @thismorning: 'Sometimes the best gift is releasing somebody else from the obligation of having to give to you' says @MartinSLewis. Do y?

  • Shana tova umetuka - a sweet Jewish New Year to all celebrating. I won't be online the rest of t'week, as I take the time to be with family

  • Dear Steve. Please note doing a poll to ask people's opinion does not in itself imply an opinion! https://t.co/UGvWlMURxy

  • Follow Martin