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    • Pincher
    • By Pincher 9th Dec 16, 12:30 AM
    • 6,516 Posts
    • 2,490 Thanks
    Pincher
    Who said the ISA was dead ?
    Originally posted by Consumerist
    As it turns out, the HSBC Loyalty ISA stopped paying ~1.5% about a year ago. Hence the Exodus of £75k from the Cash ISA into S&S ISA.

    A very volatile year later, it's now £88k. Tax Free.
    • adindas
    • By adindas 17th Mar 17, 12:26 PM
    • 3,170 Posts
    • 1,520 Thanks
    adindas
    With the new emerging of RSA paying 2.25%+ from Virgin, where you could put a lot sum of money under one platform (easy to manage), I will invite anyone who previously said it will not hurt Santander who have made with their decision to cut interest to 1.5%. Well actually lower 1.5% that if you do not have enough cash cashback and have not maximizing £20k limit.

    Where are you now ??

    I have already mentioned that rational people will switch their money into RSA rather than stay on Santander 123

    A single person could put Virgin Money 9x£250= £2250 per month earning interest of 2.25%.

    With the current state It will only take less than less than 9 moths to drain the £20k on Santander.

    This is just product from VM not to mention other RSA which have been running for sometime earning 2%+.
    • Motormad
    • By Motormad 17th Mar 17, 1:03 PM
    • 78 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    Motormad
    With the new emerging of RSA paying 2.25%+ from Virgin, where you could put a lot sum of money under one platform (easy to manage), I will invite anyone who previously said it will not hurt Santander who have made with their decision to cut interest to 1.5%. Well actually lower 1.5% that if you do not have enough cash cashback and have not maximizing £20k limit.

    Where are you now ??

    I have already mentioned that rational people will switch their money into RSA rather than stay on Santander 123

    A single person could put Virgin Money 9x£250= £2250 per month earning interest of 2.25
    With the current state It will only take less than less than 9 moths to drain the £20k on Santander.

    This is just product from VM not to mention other RSA which have been running for sometime earning 2%+.
    Originally posted by adindas
    Only problem is it's too late for the earlier issues of branch and reg e savers now.
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 17th Mar 17, 1:50 PM
    • 5,010 Posts
    • 4,767 Thanks
    eskbanker
    I will invite anyone who previously said it will not hurt Santander who have made with their decision to cut interest to 1.5%. Well actually lower 1.5% that if you do not have enough cash cashback and have not maximizing £20k limit.

    Where are you now ??

    I have already mentioned that rational people will switch their money into RSA rather than stay on Santander 123
    Originally posted by adindas
    If you're trying to pick a fight with someone who's said something you disagree with, why not find the relevant post/s and quote it/them if you feel it's worth it?

    It seems pretty self-evident to me that any bank making cuts in interest rates runs the risk of losing some business but equally they're not stupid enough not to recognise that and plan for it. There was a recent thread about Bank of Scotland, where an apparently similarly-minded poster seemed to convince himself that BoS's recent cut in rates would lead to their imminent downfall, but they all know the consequences of their actions.

    You may feel it's rational for people to move money from instant access into regular savers but that's not necessarily true - the latter clearly have better headline rates, for reasons we all know about, such as capped levels and finite durations, but it's not a like-for-like comparison so many will choose not to open multiple regular savers for entirely rational reasons!
    • Consumerist
    • By Consumerist 17th Mar 17, 2:22 PM
    • 4,580 Posts
    • 2,256 Thanks
    Consumerist
    . . . and don't forget that you don't get interest on the full balance until the final month.

    £3,000 invested for a year @ 2.25% should earn about £67 gross interest but £250 pm for year at 2.25% will only earn around £37 gross interest after a year.
    Warning: In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
    • Neil Jones
    • By Neil Jones 17th Mar 17, 3:20 PM
    • 574 Posts
    • 300 Thanks
    Neil Jones
    The Virgin Regular Savers, if you move quick enough, will allow 14 months of deposit and on that basis actually results in just under £50 a year of interest. Every month you aren't filling them it's final end value drops by about £6.

    With regards to Santander 123, the Lite account was probably their solution to try and stem the tide as it were after the changes to the main account. But ultimately where you bank is up to you and I think we sometimes forget that.
    • adindas
    • By adindas 17th Mar 17, 4:35 PM
    • 3,170 Posts
    • 1,520 Thanks
    adindas
    People who argue that Santander 123 paying 1.5% (minus fee of £60 is better than RSA earning 2.25%+ please put forward your argument here.

    A lot of people here were Santander 123 account holders

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=608697&highli

    Keep in mind those who drip feed their money to RS they either do not have lump sump of £20,00 or if they have excess money which are already sitting on other account earning some interest but less than 2% interest.

    A few posts from people on this thread already explain what they are thinking about Santander 123.

    Those who are asking for example, randomly checked

    "I am going to transfer the money to my 123 where it's going via SO to various Regular savings accounts. Lowest RS we have is 2.5% @ the Penrith. All the others pay above 3%. (YBS x 2, N&P x 4, Nationwide x 2, Leeds x 2, Santander x 2, Lloyds x 2, Coventry (formerly Stroud) x 2, Saffron ISA x 2 etc)

    I will leave the rest in my 123 which I am keeping open
    "

    Another recent post
    "Only problem is it's too late for the earlier issues of branch and reg e savers now."

    I have seen many post like this, people who are asking more evidence, I will find it and quote it here if people want to pay time doing this deskwork.
    Last edited by adindas; 17-03-2017 at 5:14 PM.
    • jimjames
    • By jimjames 17th Mar 17, 5:07 PM
    • 11,906 Posts
    • 10,285 Thanks
    jimjames
    . . . and don't forget that you don't get interest on the full balance until the final month.

    £3,000 invested for a year @ 2.25% should earn about £67 gross interest but £250 pm for year at 2.25% will only earn around £37 gross interest after a year.
    Originally posted by Consumerist
    You get interest on the entire balance for the time it's in the account. Why would they pay interest on money not there?
    I will invite anyone who previously said it will not hurt Santander who have made with their decision to cut interest to 1.5%. Well actually lower 1.5% that if you do not have enough cash cashback and have not maximizing £20k limit.
    .
    Originally posted by adindas
    I've not ever said that but maybe Santander don't care whether they have customers using their current accounts to stash multiples of £20,000 and would prefer to target those who actually want to use a current account as intended.
    Remember the saying: if it looks too good to be true it almost certainly is.
    • Zanderman
    • By Zanderman 17th Mar 17, 5:18 PM
    • 1,203 Posts
    • 3,597 Thanks
    Zanderman
    People who argue that Santander 123 paying 1.5% (minus fee of £60 is better than RSA earning 2.25%+ please put forward your argument here.
    Originally posted by adindas
    Why? What would be the point? The interest rates are different, but so are the conditions and nature of the accounts. They are not comparable so cannot be 'better' or 'worse', it all depends on how you need to manage and access your money.

    If people want to pay my time I have seen many post like this, I will find it and quote it here if people want to pay time doing this deskwork.
    Originally posted by adindas
    Why would anyone want to pay you? For what?

    The 123 change in interest rate has happened. It's history. Some people have moved money, some people haven't. It's up to them.

    There's no need or demand for any analysis, and certainly not one based on the evidence of an internet forum, which will represent a very small sample (of unusually vocal) 123 account holders and so won't be anything even close to a representative cross-section.
    • veryintrigued
    • By veryintrigued 17th Mar 17, 5:38 PM
    • 1,976 Posts
    • 1,226 Thanks
    veryintrigued
    People who argue that Santander 123 paying 1.5% (minus fee of £60 is better than RSA earning 2.25%+ please put forward your argument here.

    A lot of people here were Santander 123 account holders

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=608697&highli

    Keep in mind those who drip feed their money to RS they either do not have lump sump of £20,00 or if they have excess money which are already sitting on other account earning some interest but less than 2% interest.

    A few posts from people on this thread already explain what they are thinking about Santander 123.

    Those who are asking for example, randomly checked

    "I am going to transfer the money to my 123 where it's going via SO to various Regular savings accounts. Lowest RS we have is 2.5% @ the Penrith. All the others pay above 3%. (YBS x 2, N&P x 4, Nationwide x 2, Leeds x 2, Santander x 2, Lloyds x 2, Coventry (formerly Stroud) x 2, Saffron ISA x 2 etc)

    I will leave the rest in my 123 which I am keeping open
    "

    Another recent post
    "Only problem is it's too late for the earlier issues of branch and reg e savers now."

    I have seen many post like this, people who are asking more evidence, I will find it and quote it here if people want to pay time doing this deskwork.
    Originally posted by adindas
    I'd be tempted to spend spare time reading T&Cs (rather than expecting others to do this) instead of picking fights on here with mystery posters.

    Have a good weekend
    • adindas
    • By adindas 17th Mar 17, 6:21 PM
    • 3,170 Posts
    • 1,520 Thanks
    adindas

    Why would anyone want to pay you? For what?

    The 123 change in interest rate has happened. It's history. Some people have moved money, some people haven't. It's up to them.

    There's no need or demand for any analysis, and certainly not one based on the evidence of an internet forum, which will represent a very small sample (of unusually vocal) 123 account holders and so won't be anything even close to a representative cross-section.
    Originally posted by Zanderman
    IF you read the whole post you will notice someone here was asking for evidence. i have presented few evidence people saying moving their money from Santander 123 to RSA.

    I am far from an idiot who wanted to waste time just to prove it to this person. Few random example that I have presented speak to itself. People who ask this evidence could find it himself. Alternatively I could do it for them for a fee.

    The link I have presented here is the people who moved their money from Santander 123 to RSA, for these people it is very relevant. Keep in mind there are reasonable number of people saying the same thing. By the end of the day many people are looking to maximize interest.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=608697&highli

    Next time please read the whole thread before commenting.
    Last edited by adindas; 17-03-2017 at 6:32 PM.
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 17th Mar 17, 6:38 PM
    • 5,010 Posts
    • 4,767 Thanks
    eskbanker
    You seem to be arguing with yourself! Rather than getting bogged down in more ridiculous verbal gymnastics, can I suggest a few simple logical facts would probably help:

    Does the rate reduction make the 123 less attractive than before? Yes

    Does this mean that some people will close their 123s? Yes

    Does that mean that Santander are 'hurting'? Unlikely - they'll have lost some customers but will also have reduced their interest-paying liabilities substantially

    Will some 123 holders have moved their money to regular savers? Yes

    Does this mean that regular savers are the only 'rational' alternative? No!

    Should all 123 holders close their accounts? No, unless there are better options for their own specific circumstances
    • Consumerist
    • By Consumerist 17th Mar 17, 7:07 PM
    • 4,580 Posts
    • 2,256 Thanks
    Consumerist
    You get interest on the entire balance for the time it's in the account. Why would they pay interest on money not there? . . .
    Originally posted by jimjames
    Ok. So I meant interest on the FINAL balance (as the example which followed should have made clearer).
    Warning: In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
    • adindas
    • By adindas 18th Mar 17, 1:08 AM
    • 3,170 Posts
    • 1,520 Thanks
    adindas
    You seem to be arguing with yourself! Rather than getting bogged down in more ridiculous verbal gymnastics, can I suggest a few simple logical facts would probably help:

    Does the rate reduction make the 123 less attractive than before? Yes

    Does this mean that some people will close their 123s? Yes

    Does that mean that Santander are 'hurting'? Unlikely - they'll have lost some customers but will also have reduced their interest-paying liabilities substantially

    Will some 123 holders have moved their money to regular savers? Yes

    Does this mean that regular savers are the only 'rational' alternative? No!

    Should all 123 holders close their accounts? No, unless there are better options for their own specific circumstances
    Originally posted by eskbanker
    Well good to see that you finally answer your own questions ..
    But you definitely wrong if you thing I am arguing with myself as I know myself more than anyone else.

    One thing you might not be aware of someone here in this thread is arguing that Santander will end up with more customers despite increasing the fee, cutting interest rate.

    Good if evidence could be presented rather than pointless argument. News from the newspaper might be meaningful ...
    Last edited by adindas; 18-03-2017 at 1:12 AM.
    • Joe_Bloggs
    • By Joe_Bloggs 18th Mar 17, 9:49 AM
    • 4,398 Posts
    • 1,555 Thanks
    Joe_Bloggs
    The Santander Regular eSaver may beat the Virgin Offer. I am sure I get 3% but they were always cagey about offering a savings deal that was twice their flagship 123 rate, after the rate slashing.

    You can only put in 200 per month. It just about pays for the monthly £5 123 fee.
    J_B.
    Edit:- If I add in my S123 direct debit rebates plus the expected interest from the regular eSaver then I can make just over the £60 per year fee for the S123 account.
    Last edited by Joe_Bloggs; 18-03-2017 at 10:02 AM.
    OFT work merger decisions 2012:- MSE too small to be worth financial consideration ?
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 18th Mar 17, 12:27 PM
    • 5,010 Posts
    • 4,767 Thanks
    eskbanker
    One thing you might not be aware of someone here in this thread is arguing that Santander will end up with more customers despite increasing the fee, cutting interest rate.
    Originally posted by adindas
    That was my point yesterday after you chose to resuscitate this old thread - if you're trying to take issue with a particular poster making that specific argument then find it, quote it properly (i.e. naming the poster) and debate what was actually said in it without putting your words in other people's mouths.

    Nobody (that I can see) is disputing that some customers will choose to leave Santander and go elsewhere (some to regular savers no doubt), but if you're making the specific assertion that "someone here in this thread is arguing that Santander will end up with more customers despite increasing the fee, cutting interest rate" then, rather than quoting posts that make a different point, why not find the one(s) that you're actually referring to?!

    Incidentally, there are quarterly statistics published by BACS about volumes of current account switches, but these are six months in arrears, so the most recent ones (https://www.bacs.co.uk/DocumentLibrary/CASS_dashboard_-_published_25_Jan_17.pdf) relate to Q2 2016, when Santander were still making the biggest gains, despite this being after the monthly fee increase. I imagine that the Q3 16 figures published next month will start to show a downward trend for Santander, and probably more so once the Q4 16 figures come out. That's just supposition at this stage though, but if you think someone is claiming otherwise then it shouldn't be unduly onerous for you to identify who it is you want to debate it with!
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