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  • FIRST POST
    • GingerBob
    • By GingerBob 24th Jul 16, 1:06 PM
    • 3,614Posts
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    GingerBob
    Insurance Cancellation, the lifetime sentence
    • #1
    • 24th Jul 16, 1:06 PM
    Insurance Cancellation, the lifetime sentence 24th Jul 16 at 1:06 PM
    On this forum and elsewhere we are often told that if you are unfortunate enough to have an insurance policy cancelled then you MUST declare the cancellation for the rest of your life whenever you apply for insurance. If you don't, it could be fraud.


    I've always considered this a somewhat harsh sanction, even if the forced cancellation is because of fraud - people do mend their ways.


    So is it actually the case that you MUST declare cancellations for life, what happens if you don't, and how is the situation monitored and policed?


    I can't recall the T&Cs of the last insurance I took out, but anecdotal evidence from this board suggests that you are invited to make such a declaration - "have you ever had insurance cancelled ...." whenever you apply. Fair enough. This requirement implies that if you do have insurance cancelled, a record is kept somewhere, and it's kept "for life". I asked fellow contributors about this, thinking that some of them work in the industry :


    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=71037909#post71037909


    For reasons best known to themselves, they didn't reply.


    Maybe they are just obdurate, maybe they don't know, or perhaps they do know but are loathe to answer because of some irrational feeling that they would be giving away trade secrets. Anyway, not to worry, some Internet research has, I think, delivered the answer. Read on!


    Having insurance cancelled could be because the insurer thinks you've acted fraudulently. If this is the case he can record the fact on the


    INSURANCE FRAUD REGISTER


    This little-known database is an industry-wide "solution" to that evil of all evils, insurance fraud. It's run by the Association of British Insurers; here's a link to some information about it:


    http://www.theifr.org.uk/en/about/


    Of course as you might expect, this website is choc full of obfuscation, self-congratulation and downright lies. Here's a classic:


    "More than £2.1bn of undetected insurance fraud is committed every year."


    Anyone see a problem with that assertion? Well, they are brazen enough to put it right up front on page 1. If anyone is missing the point, the 2.1 billion figure has been obtained from a random number generator.


    Anyway, to cut to the chase, records are held on this database for


    FIVE YEARS


    So, assuming insurance cancellations are recorded, they drop off after five years. Yippee! This ties in with similar big brother databases where records must be removed after five or six years. CRA files and the Trust Registry immediately come to mind in this respect. The IFR is regulated (probably not effectively) by the ICO, so they are no doubt the ones who've insisted on the five-year limit. The insurance industry would obviously want indefinite record keeping.


    If you've been hit with a cancellation, what can you do, and do you really have to declare it for the rest of your life? Make up your own mind. I couldn't possibly advise you


    What precisely are the criteria for being put on the IFB? Well there's a surprise; they don't tell you. This is what we get:


    "There is a clearly documented set of rules applicable to loading any data to the IFR, which sets out what can and cannot be loaded by insurers. Compliance with these rules are strictly mandatory for all users. The Information Commissioner's Office has been made aware of the criteria and has not raised objections." So - what are they then. Further investigation required here, unless some insider can spill the beans.


    One final thought; there's no such thing as "your" insurance record, which could attract black marks in the same way that the CRA blacklists can. If you make a claim it will be recorded on CUE, and if you're fraudulent, it will be recorded on the IFB, but both these databases relate to incidents, not individuals.


    Happy insuring!




    PS: want to find out if you're on the IFR? Smack them up with SAR. It'll cost you a tenner (needles to say, they may record the fact that you've done so!).
Page 2
    • stanfield1981
    • By stanfield1981 7th Feb 18, 12:14 PM
    • 5 Posts
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    stanfield1981
    All information has now been collated and sent to the ICO. I'll update this post with their findings!

    They seem a bit puzzled as to how a company can hold onto personal information indefinitely but hopefully my email trail will make sense to them and they will clear it up
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 7th Feb 18, 3:38 PM
    • 91,108 Posts
    • 58,125 Thanks
    dunstonh
    All information has now been collated and sent to the ICO. I'll update this post with their findings!

    They seem a bit puzzled as to how a company can hold onto personal information indefinitely but hopefully my email trail will make sense to them and they will clear it up
    Originally posted by stanfield1981
    They shouldnt be puzzled. In cases of liability, firms can hold on to date indefinitely. That is routine in financial services.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • Retrogamer
    • By Retrogamer 8th Feb 18, 7:51 AM
    • 3,795 Posts
    • 3,775 Thanks
    Retrogamer
    They shouldnt be puzzled. In cases of liability, firms can hold on to date indefinitely. That is routine in financial services.
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    They can only hold onto the data for as long as it is needed. Holding onto data longer than needed is a breach of the DPA.

    What's the time limit on liability claims again. Is it not 6 years? Meaning holding onto people's data longer than that would be unlawful?
    • Clifford_Pope
    • By Clifford_Pope 8th Feb 18, 9:13 AM
    • 3,489 Posts
    • 3,582 Thanks
    Clifford_Pope
    Haven't we been told previously by the experts that there are two kinds of cancelling insurance:
    1) when you have tried to commit fraud, or have failed to declare something material
    2) when the insurer has reassessed the risks it insures and has decided that it can no longer cater for your requirements - eg you have moved to an area that they consider too high risk to cover, you have changed car to a type they don't insure, they have decided they no longer want to cover musicians who part-time as stunt artists, etc?

    I thought the first was declarable for ever, the second not?
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 8th Feb 18, 10:34 AM
    • 91,108 Posts
    • 58,125 Thanks
    dunstonh
    They can only hold onto the data for as long as it is needed. Holding onto data longer than needed is a breach of the DPA.
    That is correct. Emphasis on the "as long as needed".

    What's the time limit on liability claims again. Is it not 6 years? Meaning holding onto people's data longer than that would be unlawful?
    There is no time bar on financial services liability (caveats apply - such as when the PPI deadline comes in). This is why people are able to complain about PPI sold 30 years ago. Someone can complain decades later if they wanted. So, firms are allowed to hold on to data in areas of liability indefinitely. Data that is not linked to an area of liability is suggested at 6-10 years but firms have discretion.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • stanfield1981
    • By stanfield1981 9th Feb 18, 10:54 AM
    • 5 Posts
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    stanfield1981
    You have said twice that in the financial sector, companies can indefinitely hold onto personal data. Do you have any example but no mention of any examples? And for what purpose?
    Last edited by stanfield1981; 09-02-2018 at 10:57 AM. Reason: addition
    • zx81
    • By zx81 9th Feb 18, 10:59 AM
    • 15,522 Posts
    • 16,467 Thanks
    zx81
    They can retain it as long as they have a defined purpose. eg if their policy is never to lend to someone who has previously defaulted with them.

    Amex have such a policy.
    • rs65
    • By rs65 9th Feb 18, 11:02 AM
    • 5,327 Posts
    • 2,531 Thanks
    rs65
    You have said twice that in the financial sector, companies can indefinitely hold onto personal data. Do you have any example but no mention of any examples? And for what purpose?
    Originally posted by stanfield1981
    Life assurance

    Employers liability insurance was 40 years at one stage.
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