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    • GreyQueen
    • By GreyQueen 11th Oct 16, 8:39 PM
    • 10,327 Posts
    • 198,097 Thanks
    GreyQueen
    It's a very uncomfortable situation. A pal came back from holiday through Calais in their car in July 2015 and had such a hairy time being accosted by would-be immigrants that he vowed never again and flew the same journey in July 2016.

    I have several truck drivers in my extended family, although none presently doing continental runs. I have also ridden a fair few times in the tractor cabs and have driven large and heavy vehicles such as double-deckers and armoured post office vans myself.

    What is sometimes not appreciated by car drivers is that large and heavy vehicles have much greater stopping distances than cars. An HGV on the move, even at modest speeds, is an incredibly dangerous thing to get in the way of.

    I feel very sad that this driver will have to live the rest of his life with a death on his conscience when he's just a Joe Soap, someone's Dad or brother or son.

    Folks who try to waylay moving vehicles are dicing with death and I find myself wondering what the flip the French police are doing if it isn't safe for vehicles to pass on the highway without people placing roadblocks and hurling things at them? Does the rule of law not apply in France?

    About 20 years ago, I and a friend were driving a large van on a motorway in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere. M3 or M4, can't quite remember which, I did a lot of gadding about that year.

    A person dressed in dark clothes suddenly ran from the central reservation right across the carriageway in front of us. We both screamed - there was nothing at all on the road other than ourselves and no reason for a person to nearly throw themselves under our wheels.

    We didn't hit them. It was bliddy close, and my blood still chills to think of it, and that I could have a death on my conscience.
    Every increased possession loads us with a new weariness.
    John Ruskin
    Veni, vidi, eradici
    (I came, I saw, I kondo'd)

    • VJsmum
    • By VJsmum 11th Oct 16, 8:43 PM
    • 4,355 Posts
    • 61,712 Thanks
    VJsmum
    My (now deceased) FiL killed someone who ran out in front of his car.

    The court (maybe coroner?) said it wasn't his fault. But he never got over it.
    Maybe I will never be all the things that I wanna be,
    Now is not the time to cry, Now's the time to find out why
    I think you're the same as me,We see things they'll never see
    Cos You and I are gonna live forever
    Noel Gallagher
    • westcoastscot
    • By westcoastscot 11th Oct 16, 8:58 PM
    • 1,263 Posts
    • 15,484 Thanks
    westcoastscot
    I have endless sympathy for the poor soul who was driving, but also for the desperate folks trying to get over. The authorities on both sides should do something to ensure the safety of the migrants and travellers.
    • GreyQueen
    • By GreyQueen 11th Oct 16, 9:23 PM
    • 10,327 Posts
    • 198,097 Thanks
    GreyQueen
    I believe the rules on claiming asylum are that you do it in the first safe country you enter. Not that you traverse a continent of safe countries, encamp yourself in another safe country whilst trying by all criminal means to force access into legitimate cargo vehicles, into bus lockers, onto trains and through tunnels into yet another safe country because you perceive, rightly or wrongly, that it's a better option.

    The would-be-into-UK migrants in Calais and its environs are choosing not to claim asylum in France or in the other countries they have traversed. They are choosing to do things which I am sure, even in the wilder corners of lawless Somalia et al, are clearly understood to be violent and criminal acts. It may well be that considerable numbers of them are coming from places which would give them no legitimate claim for asylum and are just trying it on as economic migrants, and thus cannot go through the proper processes and have to resort to criminality.

    Lorries in my region have been caught on camera debouching illegal immigrants. Hell, there was even one episode in a village we used to live in, and that's a real one-horse flyspeck on the map. Mostly, people run off into the hinterlands and aren't caught and we don't know who the blue blazes they are, what they've done in the past and what they might do in the future.

    Kind of pointless living in a world where you have to show your UK passport when making internal UK flights as a UK national but our borders are wide open wednesday.
    Every increased possession loads us with a new weariness.
    John Ruskin
    Veni, vidi, eradici
    (I came, I saw, I kondo'd)

    • Bedsit Bob
    • By Bedsit Bob 11th Oct 16, 9:53 PM
    • 9,311 Posts
    • 48,764 Thanks
    Bedsit Bob
    The authorities on both sides should do something to ensure the safety of the migrants and travelers.
    Originally posted by westcoastscot
    How do you ensure the safety of someone, who intentional puts themselves in front of a moving vehicle
    My job is Top Secret. Even I don't know what I'm doing.

    Amount I have so far denied the BBC - £1015-50
    • singlestep
    • By singlestep 11th Oct 16, 9:55 PM
    • 188 Posts
    • 2,026 Thanks
    singlestep
    I certainly don't disagree that arriving at any safe place should be enough but countries closest to these countries can barely cope as it is.

    A friend and I came back from France via Calais last year and it wasn't pleasant - safely back here, we both confessed anticipating it had cast a bit of a shadow over the last couple of days. At least we don't share a land border with mainland Europe.

    It says a lot, though, that people are willing to go to such lengths and (sometimes pay to) put themselves in such danger to get to our countries and allow their children to make such journeys, sometimes on their own. Just saw on the news that 28% of refugees in to Greece this year have been children

    What would I do in their situations? I'd like to say I'd stay and get my country back on its feet if possible but the reality can't be that simple. Hopefully, I'll never have to confront a SHTF situation like it here in my lifetime.

    GQ, how are you getting on with using the other hand for your computer? I am yet to get used to it but do try at home. It's too annoying at work!
    • GreyQueen
    • By GreyQueen 11th Oct 16, 10:06 PM
    • 10,327 Posts
    • 198,097 Thanks
    GreyQueen
    GQ, how are you getting on with using the other hand for your computer? I am yet to get used to it but do try at home. It's too annoying at work!
    Originally posted by singlestep
    Tolerably well. I can more-or-less touch type but am right-handed for the old pooter mouse and that side is suffering a bit from over-use.

    My job requires very fast computer skills and it will be some time (if ever) before I can mouse-click swiftly and accurately enough to use it on the left at work.

    Interestingly, I am the offspring of a right-hander and an ambi-dexter. Kid Bruv is a southpaw and I have the ability to, with very small amounts of practise, write and even sketch using my left hand.

    It's always been so, I have no idea why my brain works thusly. I think it's no bad little prep of its own, if you can master ambidexterity, in the event that you might temporarily lose the use of one hand/ arm to a strain or a break.
    Every increased possession loads us with a new weariness.
    John Ruskin
    Veni, vidi, eradici
    (I came, I saw, I kondo'd)

    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 11th Oct 16, 10:28 PM
    • 10,888 Posts
    • 30,639 Thanks
    moneyistooshorttomention
    While any death is tragic, I struggle to feel sympathy for someone, who loses their life, while committing a criminal (and especially a violent criminal) act.
    Originally posted by Bedsit Bob
    Guess you mean this would-be illegal immigrant?

    In which case - I agree. They have shown no concern for drivers/holidaymakers/etc and, when the driver that accidentally knocked one of them down got out showing concern about them - they went to attack him.

    They are attacking drivers and hence why I wouldnt want to be in these drivers' position. I decided a couple of years back I would never travel that route unless/until this has been resolved. But I guess some drivers don't feel they have any option but to do so and/or can't quite believe they really will be under attack - until they are.

    I'm not sure in my own mind how people would feel if they accidentally killed someone deliberately blocking the road like that - whether they would feel the same way as they would if it was an ordinary/innocent person that had accidentally been in the road at the time. Thankfully, I'm not a car driver - but I could visualise myself feeling really awful about it for the rest of my life if I accidentally killed an ordinary pedestrian and I know I would feel terrible about it.
    But, in those circumstances - I'm not convinced I would feel the same way...
    Last edited by moneyistooshorttomention; 11-10-2016 at 10:41 PM.
    The unexamined life is not worth living.
    • milasavesmoney
    • By milasavesmoney 12th Oct 16, 12:31 AM
    • 1,599 Posts
    • 12,718 Thanks
    milasavesmoney
    My dad was left handed. When he was in his 70's I asked him who else on his side of the family was also. He said, oh I'm not left handed. I broke my collar bone falling out of the hay loft, in the barn, when I was six, and as it was just when I was learning to write so I learned to use my left hand. No one, not even my mother, had ever heard that story.
    Last edited by milasavesmoney; 12-10-2016 at 12:48 AM.
    Nov $69/$500 ~~ 3/6 EF #46 $11,273/$15,000 ~~ Xmas/Bday 2016 $3002/$6500 ~~ WL 2016 ~15 lb
    • boddy
    • By boddy 12th Oct 16, 7:27 AM
    • 3,289 Posts
    • 68,290 Thanks
    boddy
    Thanks Doveling I've signed up for that course too.
    • maryb
    • By maryb 12th Oct 16, 12:00 PM
    • 3,009 Posts
    • 35,190 Thanks
    maryb
    I am getting a bit worried about the escalation of tension with Russia - not that I think bombs are likely to start falling any time soon. But the Cold War is well and truly back again when Russia holds large scale drills for its population about surviving a nuclear war and is telling all public officials with children studying abroad to bring them back home NOW. That and Germany updating its civil defence guidance to store food and water.

    I just hope it de-escalates after the US election and associated posturing is out of the way
    It doesn't matter if you are a glass half full or half empty sort of person. Keep it topped up! Cheers!
    • Bedsit Bob
    • By Bedsit Bob 12th Oct 16, 12:30 PM
    • 9,311 Posts
    • 48,764 Thanks
    Bedsit Bob
    Looks like the Pound is heading for parity with the Euro.

    Good for exports, but back for holidaymakers.
    My job is Top Secret. Even I don't know what I'm doing.

    Amount I have so far denied the BBC - £1015-50
    • maryb
    • By maryb 12th Oct 16, 12:45 PM
    • 3,009 Posts
    • 35,190 Thanks
    maryb
    Martin's TravelMoneyMax site is showing 1.096 today. Not brilliant but the actual decline since just before Brexit is about 10%. I don't know about anyone else but I don't spend so much on holiday that it's material in the overall scheme of things. Mentally, I tend to translate Euro prices at about that rate anyway
    It doesn't matter if you are a glass half full or half empty sort of person. Keep it topped up! Cheers!
    • pineapple
    • By pineapple 12th Oct 16, 3:52 PM
    • 5,826 Posts
    • 27,219 Thanks
    pineapple
    Just saw on the news that 28% of refugees in to Greece this year have been children
    Originally posted by singlestep
    But what is the definition of children in this context? I tend to think of 10 year olds in distress and who wouldn't want to help them?
    However if it's a 16 or 17 year old or someone going on 18, I am less sure. Sorry if that makes me Mrs Nasty.
    News items on the plight of migrant children are so often accompanied by footage of young kids but it would be interesting to see an age breakdown..
    PS I'm thinking more in the context of the Calais camps here.
    • westcoastscot
    • By westcoastscot 12th Oct 16, 4:04 PM
    • 1,263 Posts
    • 15,484 Thanks
    westcoastscot
    How do you ensure the safety of someone, who intentional puts themselves in front of a moving vehicle
    Originally posted by Bedsit Bob
    Bob you obviously cannot, but I was referring back to MTSTM post about the choice between sitting and waiting for a migrant to move or driving on.

    Interesting to read the different viewpoints on migrants and ports, thank you. I know it is a complex and difficult situation - I've done some work with migrants settling here in Scotland - however I have a lot of empathy for people whose lives are such that living in a migrant camp in Calais and risking your life every night for a new life in the UK is better than what's behind you.
    edited to add: reading on am slightly shocked about the stance of some on here, so shall hie me away from this discussion and come back when we return to prepping
    Last edited by westcoastscot; 12-10-2016 at 4:11 PM.
    • Bedsit Bob
    • By Bedsit Bob 12th Oct 16, 4:18 PM
    • 9,311 Posts
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    Bedsit Bob
    But what is the definition of children in this context?
    Originally posted by pineapple
    Indeed.

    Many claiming to be children, are actually adults.
    My job is Top Secret. Even I don't know what I'm doing.

    Amount I have so far denied the BBC - £1015-50
    • Bedsit Bob
    • By Bedsit Bob 12th Oct 16, 4:22 PM
    • 9,311 Posts
    • 48,764 Thanks
    Bedsit Bob
    Bob you obviously cannot, but I was referring back to MTSTM post about the choice between sitting and waiting for a migrant to move or driving on.
    Originally posted by westcoastscot
    You said:-

    The authorities on both sides should do something to ensure the safety of the migrants and travelers.
    Originally posted by westcoastscot
    If a person chooses to run in front of a moving vehicle, that's not the fault of the authorities.
    My job is Top Secret. Even I don't know what I'm doing.

    Amount I have so far denied the BBC - £1015-50
    • westcoastscot
    • By westcoastscot 12th Oct 16, 5:05 PM
    • 1,263 Posts
    • 15,484 Thanks
    westcoastscot
    You said:-



    If a person chooses to run in front of a moving vehicle, that's not the fault of the authorities.
    Originally posted by Bedsit Bob
    last word from me on this.......... I didn't say it was the fault of the authorities, I said the authorities should do something to protect both drivers and migrants
    • Bedsit Bob
    • By Bedsit Bob 12th Oct 16, 5:12 PM
    • 9,311 Posts
    • 48,764 Thanks
    Bedsit Bob
    I said the authorities should do something to protect both drivers and migrants
    Originally posted by westcoastscot
    What something do you suggest?
    My job is Top Secret. Even I don't know what I'm doing.

    Amount I have so far denied the BBC - £1015-50
    • mardatha
    • By mardatha 12th Oct 16, 6:06 PM
    • 13,290 Posts
    • 122,662 Thanks
    mardatha
    I don't see how this relates to prepping. Going on your hols is not prepping lol. Re Putin, he's trying to keep everybody on the hop. it's what he does. Bringing back foreign students is just play acting - what is going to happen to them? Nothing. Look at his face- he's a stirrer lol
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