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    • mardatha
    • By mardatha 3rd Dec 17, 2:35 PM
    • 14,137 Posts
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    mardatha
    I think if you want to be a true prepper, one who will survive when others won't... then you have toi grow a thicker skin than most in here. I'm not arguing lol I'm just saying. And that's all I'm saying.
    Thank god says everybody lol
    • Bedsit Bob
    • By Bedsit Bob 3rd Dec 17, 2:49 PM
    • 9,833 Posts
    • 51,598 Thanks
    Bedsit Bob
    A couple of years ago, as I was leaving the local shopping precinct, I was approached by a young man, who told me he was homeless, and had a drink problem.

    My reply was that he was doing quite well, until he mentioned the drink problem.

    I advised him to get himself dried out, because "I will not give you money, so you can drink yourself to death."

    A few months ago, I was coming out of B&Q, when the same man approached me, with the same spiel.

    He looked at least 10 years older.

    I wonder, if I had given him some money, on that first occasion, would he still have even been alive?
    My job is Top Secret. Even I don't know what I'm doing.

    Amount I have so far denied the BBC - £1161
    • singlestep
    • By singlestep 3rd Dec 17, 4:22 PM
    • 194 Posts
    • 2,114 Thanks
    singlestep
    One of my temping jobs years back was at a major sporting venue where tickets were extremely expensive and beyond anything I'd consider paying every year even now. Over the several summers I worked there I would occasionally notice them going to people I knew. One had several children who never seemed to have shoes that fit or kept out the water. Another, whose membership went back decades, was the father of a child in my class at school who really did seem to eat nothing but beans at home. I just don't get it when there seems to be some alternative for income other than ensuring children are fed and cared for.

    It isn't confined to parents on low incomes. I still believe that most people are decent enough not to do it unless they have to. Addiction, troubled upbringing or mental ill-health can play a part in poor decisions but sometimes there's a whole family dealing with the consequences.
    • daz378
    • By daz378 3rd Dec 17, 11:25 PM
    • 553 Posts
    • 6,379 Thanks
    daz378
    A lot of my stores is down to my dad god bless him , who died the end of April he would and earlier both parents since i left home about 30 years gave me tin meat or fish every week so wouldnt cook after a night out, the last year of his life was giving me 3 tins a week .... i now prepp for my self with occasional online shop my current favorites to batch buy are tinned veg and tinned curry, so its really my parents foresight that made me a prepper.......the scarcity of houses is politically\economically driven the large housing builders buy land and dont build to keep prices high im not really political but Corbyn is right that society runs for the few not the many wonder if people are ready to give the left a chance as more people are struggling for the basics....interesting times
    • MrsLurcherwalker
    • By MrsLurcherwalker 4th Dec 17, 1:36 PM
    • 11,175 Posts
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    MrsLurcherwalker
    We've known hard times, we've survived them because we're tough old birds and know how to make £1 do the work of 2, because we eat what we grow in times like that and I've learned to be pretty inventive with veg and pulses to make the food we have not just OK but delicious. I'm not above buying things in charity shops, most of my useful equipment has come from them or jumble sales and since I've dropped weight quite a lot of clothes have come from charity shops or boot fairs. I'm one of the lucky ones in life who now has enough for our needs in retirement and in part this is because we have few needs and are quite content with a simple life and also have no 'side' to us, just appreciation of what we have however we choose to live simply and have no children to feed now and not everyone is fortunate enough to be in that situation for any number of reasons. Thank God there are charities that help and food banks to feed the poor folk who can't manage on what they earn/get on benefits, how anyone could or would take advantage of something that has been designed specifically to keep people from starving and deprivation is incomprehensible not just at Christmas time but for every other day of the year too!
    Go forward with the vision even if no one else can see it!

    No amount of regretting can change the past, and no amount of worrying can change the future!
    • Karmacat
    • By Karmacat 4th Dec 17, 1:44 PM
    • 28,174 Posts
    • 155,151 Thanks
    Karmacat
    I think if you want to be a true prepper, one who will survive when others won't... then you have toi grow a thicker skin than most in here. I'm not arguing lol I'm just saying. And that's all I'm saying.
    Originally posted by mardatha
    Yes.


    I have to say, I don't join in online discussions like this at all, ever. A few years ago, I had a different forum explode on me, and it made me very shaky for a long time. It went on (and on and on) over a period of five months, and I really was a nervous wreck by the time I decided to delete everything I'd ever written on that forum and leave. Best thing I've ever done, but I was a long time coming to terms with it. Then someone on here, on the mfw board, recommended reading Captain Awkward, and it was one of the best things I've ever done. But I still don't take part in discussions like this, even though I agree with so many of the posts.

    Though I love the bald statements from Mar, and the detailed observations and anecdotes from GQ.

    And daz I hope you're doing okay, you lost your dad so recently, and you don't sound like you have much additional family? I may be wrong there. My mum died almost exactly a year ago, but my brother and sister and I are very much of a mind with what we're dealing with.
    Retired August 2016
    • Doveling
    • By Doveling 4th Dec 17, 4:54 PM
    • 407 Posts
    • 7,211 Thanks
    Doveling
    There will always be a minority who will abuse any system.

    However, I thought that the Welfare State was specifically designed to keep people from starving and deprivation.

    There would not be the need for charity and food banks if the system in place was not being gradually eroded by austerity cuts.

    I think Mardatha is right re: shift in responsibility.

    I would like to qualify in that, of course, people should take responsibility for themselves as far as possible, but some cannot for whatever reason and who are we to judge.

    I feel the shift has gone too far.

    Karmacat - I know what you mean but the new Rowntree report is out and it's set me off on one again!
    Not dim .....just living in soft focus
    • fuddle
    • By fuddle 4th Dec 17, 5:32 PM
    • 5,929 Posts
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    fuddle
    The Welfare State can't take into account debt and debt repayments. Debt responsibility doesn't disappear when financial hard times hit. In my opinion the financial industry also have a role to play in helping in hard times. The problem is so complicated in my mind and for me, it's not just about austerity but zero hours, the huge shift towards self employment and stagnant wages in all sectors, to name a few.
    • Karmacat
    • By Karmacat 4th Dec 17, 6:29 PM
    • 28,174 Posts
    • 155,151 Thanks
    Karmacat
    Karmacat - I know what you mean but the new Rowntree report is out and it's set me off on one again!
    Originally posted by Doveling
    Thanks Doveling! Much appreciated.
    Retired August 2016
    • mardatha
    • By mardatha 4th Dec 17, 9:13 PM
    • 14,137 Posts
    • 132,158 Thanks
    mardatha
    I don't mean to sound bald lol, I just say what I think, because I know we're all friends in here. And friends are allowed to disagree as long as they are not hurtful. Although I can cope with hurtful if I have to.
    Daz your dad was a good man !
    Agree re the Rowantree report Doveling.
    TS been Hitting the F here for a few months now and it's getting steadily worse. Apologies if I am rattier than usual recently, I'm getting seriously not amused. Hopefully life will re-balance itself for me soon.
    • Bedsit Bob
    • By Bedsit Bob 4th Dec 17, 9:43 PM
    • 9,833 Posts
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    Bedsit Bob
    The Welfare State can't take into account debt and debt repayments.
    Originally posted by fuddle
    Nor can it take into account addiction, be that illegal drugs, nicotine, alcohol, gambling, or anything else for that matter.

    There will always be people, who will put smoking, drinking, etc. ahead of feeding themselves and, in some cases, even their children.

    These people wouldn't be able to budget for household needs, if they were on £1,000 a week.

    What should we do about these people?

    I'm damned if I know.
    My job is Top Secret. Even I don't know what I'm doing.

    Amount I have so far denied the BBC - £1161
    • Karmacat
    • By Karmacat 4th Dec 17, 9:59 PM
    • 28,174 Posts
    • 155,151 Thanks
    Karmacat
    I don't mean to sound bald lol, I just say what I think, because I know we're all friends in here. And friends are allowed to disagree as long as they are not hurtful. Although I can cope with hurtful if I have to.
    Originally posted by mardatha
    I *like* the way you post, Mar! Bald had no negative connotations for me, I promise. You don't tie yourself up in knots and you speak straight from the heart. I love it. I was always able to do it in my professional life, but in my personal life I'm terrible, that's why Captain Awkward was so great: my skin was always too thin, and reading that blog, I turned a corner, suddenly started to feel that my own point of view was worth having, since it only applied to me, and I'm absolutely entitled to make my own choices about my own life. As is everyone else.

    TS been Hitting the F here for a few months now and it's getting steadily worse. Apologies if I am rattier than usual recently, I'm getting seriously not amused. Hopefully life will re-balance itself for me soon.
    I'm so sorry to hear that, Mar. I remember you posting about some of that a few months ago I hope a new balance is reached really soon, and it's in a good way.
    Retired August 2016
    • fuddle
    • By fuddle 4th Dec 17, 10:21 PM
    • 5,929 Posts
    • 89,568 Thanks
    fuddle
    Nor can it take into account addiction, be that illegal drugs, nicotine, alcohol, gambling, or anything else for that matter.

    There will always be people, who will put smoking, drinking, etc. ahead of feeding themselves and, in some cases, even their children.

    These people wouldn't be able to budget for household needs, if they were on £1,000 a week.

    What should we do about these people?

    I'm damned if I know.
    Originally posted by Bedsit Bob
    Having lived through this very scenario there is absolutely nothing 'we can do about these people'. What I do know is there is a softer approach when dealing with council tax debt when it gets to the court stage and certainly with mortgage arrears, when taken to court, the outcome is helpful rather than brusque.
    • daz378
    • By daz378 5th Dec 17, 12:06 AM
    • 553 Posts
    • 6,379 Thanks
    daz378
    Thanks for the kind words .... i have a brother and sister only lives a few miles away and another sister lives in LA, my nearby sister has been on welfare most of her working life due to her lovely disabled daughter now in her thirties, i have immense love and respect for her has if that wasnt enough her son has recently started having epileptic fits hes also in his thirties, shes very proud and will only let me help on her birthday or xmas , so i usually send her a tosspots(thanks GQ) online shop to have a big party and i have friends both at work and live locally who ive known over 30 years so on the whole bobbin along ok for now but i dont take it for granted . you all take care
    • GreyQueen
    • By GreyQueen 5th Dec 17, 7:13 AM
    • 11,426 Posts
    • 219,559 Thanks
    GreyQueen
    Having both worked and volunteered in the debt advice sector, before my present employment, I would say that it is often possible to drag the fat out of the fire with debt, if the indebted person is serious (or even semi-serious) about making some changes.

    Although you sometimes had to have gentle but firm words with people about how their £400 a month cigarette habit or their Sky subscriptions which take one quarter of their benefit income not being acceptable on a SOM as an explanation to their creditors of why they can only pay £1 a month towards their debts.

    I see quite a lot of my neighbours spending their limited funds in the pub and the betting shop, but have never bumped into one of them at Tosspots YS time, and that store is a five minute stroll away. I draw certain conclusions of my own from what I see but it's a free world. Some choices are forced on you by circumstances, some are made by your own, repeated, actions or inactions.

    I have been 'on the social' for years at a time, due to chronic illhealth, and am no stranger to the terror that a brown manilla envelope landing on the mat can induce. Even to this day, I get a bit shaky at the sight of one of those. I've also had the joyful experience of opening a DSS letter and being told, effective a date already a week or so in the past, that I have no benefit award, and thus no money coming in.

    I sought advice immediately from CAB and the kindly advisor asked if I had food at home, did I need a food parcel? I was grateful for the thoughtfulness but did have a storecupboard and also some cash on hand, but many people sail very close to the wind and are so incredibly vulnerable.

    Whenever I see/ hear/ read those smug barstewards in power knocking the little people in this country, I wish I was a supernatural being who could somehow change their lives. Such as sentencing them to an indefinate term in real life, at or near the bottom of the socio-economic pile, without the benefits of family connection, elite education, cronyism or even good health. I'd love to make the policy makers live the policies, not for a week or a month, but forever, as a superb lesson in compassion.

    Alas, I lack supernatural powers, don't even believe in such things, but one has to have a dream, hey?
    Every increased possession loads us with a new weariness.
    John Ruskin
    Veni, vidi, eradici
    (I came, I saw, I kondo'd)

    • mardatha
    • By mardatha 5th Dec 17, 7:41 AM
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    mardatha
    GQ just gimme a machine gun and a barricade and I'm with you all the way! lol
    • VJsmum
    • By VJsmum 5th Dec 17, 7:49 AM
    • 4,891 Posts
    • 70,501 Thanks
    VJsmum
    I think the old adage of 'walking a mile in someone's shoes' is rather applicable here. We don't know, on the whole, what is going on in people's lives.

    Many of us have sailed close to the wind - if not floundered in the storm. I watched my mother struggle to feed us - and yet she smoked... I stopped judging that a long time ago, she had nothing else and, looking back, i think she herself went without food. We were never hungry and we were wamly, if not fashionably, dressed. But fear of poverty, once experienced, never leaves you.

    On the other hand, my OH has never experienced poverty but knows how it affects me and I overheard him telling our kids, not that long ago, about why it affects me so much when they take money for granted.

    I try not to judge others, though I am only human. Jack Monroe, the thrifty food blogger sums it up quite well when she says that things like tattoos and big tellys can be acquired before poverty strikes. YOu might get a few quid for a big telly, but you can't sell tattoos. Illness and job losses can arrive out of the blue - I was unexpectedly made redundant after we had signed to buy some expensive furniture. We could afford it, but there must be many who think it'll be ok only to find out it isn't.
    You're out with a friend in the capital, I'm a thousand leagues under the sea
    You're hovering worriedly over your eggs, And I'm pondering trees
    I'm wandering long, And I'm pondering trees
    For you and me
    Guy Garvey
    • fuddle
    • By fuddle 5th Dec 17, 8:02 AM
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    • 89,568 Thanks
    fuddle
    I've come to the conclusion that the human mind never wants to do a rubbish job of something. That's not in our makeup as we're primed to survive.

    I have had to accept that my mam did the best for me that she could. Something effected her that made her unable to do a gold standard job but she tried. It's only that thought that enabled me to move on.

    It's very difficult to function when there's mental, physical and life obstacles and as humans we have to survive somehow. Who are we to judge people coping methods for getting out of bed and trying to get on with life?
    Last edited by fuddle; 05-12-2017 at 8:12 AM.
    • Doveling
    • By Doveling 5th Dec 17, 8:16 AM
    • 407 Posts
    • 7,211 Thanks
    Doveling
    Good grief Fuddle, I agree with you!!!!

    I think you are talking about resilience.

    Children need to learn socially acceptable coping mechanisms for life in general.
    (I'm not talking about abused and neglected children which is another kettle of fish entirely)

    Some children today, not all, have their battles fought for them and do not learn how to handle life for themselves.

    If you can't cope with coming last in the sack race, life will be very hard for you in the future.
    Not dim .....just living in soft focus
    • MrsLurcherwalker
    • By MrsLurcherwalker 5th Dec 17, 8:37 AM
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    MrsLurcherwalker
    We're all only human and that means we're all standing in very different places to make decisions because we've all had widely differing experiences in our lives getting to this day in 2017. It's easy to judge, to feel superior and smug because we're OK, to look askance at people who have debts, make (in our eyes) wrong life choices and fritter away their incomes on items we deem unnecessary and wasteful BUT it's a long way up into the gutter if you're born below it, it's a monumental struggle to break conditioned habits you've known since infancy and the effort to heave yourself over the kerbstone isn't in everyone or the strength to make the changes that let you climb on. I KNOW how it feels and it is possible but you have to be mule stubborn and driven to do it. It sometimes means rifts with family and your whole acquaintance group, your peers, your mentors (to that point) and the strength to change who and what you are, it frankly hurts like Billy Oh and you become a pariah, a stuck up b*tch, a disloyal and wayward child and NOT 'one of us' any more. Not everyone has the guts or drive to do it, FUDS has, I have and I suspect many others of us have made the rock hard choices that have led to them being the folk they are today. People have differing values and because I hate people smoking with a passion or getting high on drugs or drunk as a skunk doesn't mean they shouldn't make their own choices but I DO think a good object lesson is to let them live with the consequences of their choices. If life has dealt cruel and devastating blows that take away everything people have however that have meant not having choice I would give anything and everything that was needed to help folk onto their feet and back to better lives.
    Go forward with the vision even if no one else can see it!

    No amount of regretting can change the past, and no amount of worrying can change the future!
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