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    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 3rd Dec 17, 9:15 AM
    • 14,234 Posts
    • 38,557 Thanks
    moneyistooshorttomention
    Exactly what I thought, Bob!

    The organiser has an unfortunate way of putting things and so did I perhaps this evening!

    I had to go with my stuff when my pupils did and if I had to go we all had to go. If I hadn't taken spares and quietly passed them on for them to 'help carry' as they came in through my door, they'd have gone empty-handed.
    Originally posted by singlestep
    That organiser was being more than a little presumptuous all round. I agree with giving to food banks - but the organiser shouldnt have presumed you would do so (as a teacher) and shouldnt have presumed the pupils would either (as obviously some would forget and thats one thing - but there would be pupils in quite another position on the other hand). If they made an arrangement for delivering the stuff that meant all your pupils had to come with you - then that IS pressure on them.

    Maybe not the same sort of pressure as my father commented used to happen to him when he was in the Armed Forces years back - whereby they were sometimes literally ordered to pay "voluntarily" towards "something or other" (seems to recall a present or two for royal family was part of it?). But it's pressure nonetheless - pressure of expectations.
    New Year's Resolution already made -

    Don't get mad....get firm ...
    • Jazee
    • By Jazee 3rd Dec 17, 9:23 AM
    • 4,091 Posts
    • 47,980 Thanks
    Jazee
    We really are a country of haves and have-nots aren't we? Some good suggestions on here, I think I might write food bank at the top of the shopping list.

    Will also pass on some of the supermarket suggestions to those who can make these decisions.

    Another bug in my bonnet at the moment is the rise in homelessness and lack of compassion. Just this week in thriving York with tourists in abundance I saw a homeless old man collapsed in the street.

    In our poorer days, we made sure the children had as much good food as possible (grandparents also helped) and we had a diet of mainly baked beans.
    The "Save 12k in 2017" Thread! (#20) December £355 Total £12694.84/£12000




    • fuddle
    • By fuddle 3rd Dec 17, 9:31 AM
    • 5,944 Posts
    • 89,749 Thanks
    fuddle
    A store cupboard is quite difficult to build when money is tight, especially with a family to feed. I've not had a store cupboard and suffered because of that ignorance. I have had a store cupboard and had to rely on it running it down. I have had a store cupboard that was full to the brim but had to be given away due to moving across the country in 3x trips in a transit van for the rest of the house stuff and that was bare minimum. I have had a store cupboard that saw us able to get out of a sticky situation fast and get back home (ate from the store cupboard to save grocery money to fund move) and now after 2 years of building that store cupboard I now have to whittle it down because so much of it will make me ill. I now have to start again pretty much... again and this time it's coconut flour, buckwheat etc etc that isn't readily available and costs so much more.

    Building a stock cupboard is hard. I read up ways of doing it and a tin extra a week shouldn't break the bank but with 4 people eating that extra tin soon goes and before I know it I've lost any surplus again.

    I build a store cupboard for my mental health and ability to cope with what if but I tell you my ruddy store cupboard has caused me so much ruddy anxiety and I'm feeling it again now because I feel I'm not ready for what if.

    I have never asked for help from a foodbank but I have struggled to feed my family. For me, personally, I feel that we're a nation of people who need the foodbank because we have a lot of debt. It costs a lot to live and many don't have a lot of income anyway. It's bills, debt, food then heating in my eyes. If food poverty is on the rise then fuel poverty must be rife.

    Food costs have gone up and are going up and can I just pin point that many of you got ahead in the time when the price of beans was 9p. It's much more difficult to get ahead these days.

    For what it's worth I couldn't go to a foodbank knowing I had food in the cupboard and my only motivation was to want to keep my stock levels high because the foodbank exists purely because of our society's kindness. To take from such kindness when I don't really need it would have me very upset. Foodbanks aren't political. They come from a very good place. The thought of using that goodness for personal gain isn't a nice thought at all.
    Last edited by fuddle; 03-12-2017 at 3:16 PM.
    • singlestep
    • By singlestep 3rd Dec 17, 10:09 AM
    • 194 Posts
    • 2,114 Thanks
    singlestep
    WAll the supermarkets are doing is applying subtle leverage so that we buy more from them, to feed ourselves and also supply the foodbanks. Why can't the supermarkets themselves donate? Even a tiny percentage of the week's takings would be a huge amount.
    Originally posted by mardatha
    I read yesterday that one of the German supermarkets is to donate leftover food to charity this Christmas and is encouraging rivals to do the same.

    Why just Christmas, though? People are hungry and going without all year round. Is this normally YS food, so may deprive others who rely on it?
    • monnagran
    • By monnagran 3rd Dec 17, 10:14 AM
    • 3,192 Posts
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    monnagran
    Well said Fuddle. Moral people will never take advantage of the kindness of others, whether the kindness is directed at them or meant for someone else.
    I also take exception to those who feel entitled to decide what other people need without ever standing in their shoes or knowing their circumstances.
    Homelessness is a terrible, terrible thing. I am blessed never to have been there, but I have seen enough of it to understand a little of what it must be like. Any small thing that can make that even slightly better should not be hijacked by anyone who can still go to bed at night with a roof over their heads.
    I am aware that food banks are there for anyone who needs them, but the word is 'need.' There will always be people who milk the system, that, unfortunately, is human nature, but that must be between them and their conscience.

    As for building up a stock cupboard, as fuddle demonstrates, there is no one system that fits all. I used to keep a good stock cupboard but through my life when shortages occur, they occur suddenly and bizarrely. In the 70s who could have predicted the sudden absence of toilet rolls or sugar from the shops. Back in the 60s does anyone remember the great pepper shortage? Hardly life threatening.

    In fact prepping in general is much hampered by not knowing what we are prepping for. Remember how at the beginning of WW2 we were all issued with gas masks, all ready for the expected gas attacks. Dire consequences were promised if we did not carry them with us at all times. I remember carting my Mickey Mouse gas mask to school.What we were not prepared for were doodlebugs, they came as an unpleasant surprise.
    If we try to prepare for ALLeventualities we will not be living in the present and making the most of it, we will be in a state of anxiety about what might happen in an uncertain future.
    There is a difference in being prudent and being obsessive.

    PHEW.
    I believe that friends are quiet angels
    Who lift us to our feet when our wings
    Have trouble remembering how to fly.
    • GreyQueen
    • By GreyQueen 3rd Dec 17, 10:31 AM
    • 11,432 Posts
    • 219,702 Thanks
    GreyQueen
    The rise in homelessness is a very complicated situation and there is perhaps a bit more to it than is apparent to many passers-by.

    I work in a local authority. At any report of rough sleepers, a designated officer goes out to approach them and offer assistance. The official parlance for what often happens when they do is 'failure to engage with services' which is a catch-all term for rejection of help.

    Homelessness charities also prowl the streets at night, looking for people to help, and oftentimes meet with the same reaction. I know of one lady who has lived rough on the streets for years, to the great despair of all statutory and charitable and religious groups who have made multiple attempts to help her - unlike picking up stray dogs, you can't kidnap stray people against their will and take them to a place of safety unless they fall into certain very specific criteria of mental health. And you can't keep them under those circumstances for very long.

    Failure to engage can have many causes; mental health problems, severe drug addictions, utter bloody-mindedness or, sometimes, refusal to accept that there are limitations on the kind of help which can be offered. Examples of the latter might be that the person has just arrived in the area on a whim, with no local connections and not with the mitigating circumstances of fleeing violence, and needs to claim help in their home area. Or that you cannot keep your hostel place while attempting to deal Class A drugs to fellow residents or beating up the staff and/ or other residents.

    Some of my own neighbours beg in the city centre with Hungry and Homeless signs when they are 5 minutes' walk away from their secure and comfortable council flats. They are so dirty and dishevelled that you'd swear they were sleeping under a bridge if you didn't know better. Other so-called rough sleepers stay overnight with pals, often half a dozen at a time, then head off in the morning in office hours, clutching their sleeping bags, to beg as homeless. Seen this with my own eyes, and have spoken to people in other neighbourhoods who report the same thing.

    Becuase of what I know, I would be reluctant to give to beggars, for fear that my little contribution would be the final element of the price of the fix which killed them. Far better to donate to the Sally Ann who are very active here, or to the food banks.

    I'm sorry if this isn't a pleasant read, or terribly PC, but my home is within 20 yards of several half-way houses and hostels and I see things on a daily basis which horrify me and horrify my neighbours, several of whom have been homeless themselves at various times. All this is in addition to what I know via my work, and is RL experience, not some home counties matron forming her opinions off the Daily Fail.

    So, if you find yourself looking at the shameful sight of rough sleepers and beggars and thinking This is awful, why isn't somebody doing something?! perhaps pause a moment and remember this post and realise that an awful lot of people are trying very hard to help, with very little to show for it in some cases.
    Every increased possession loads us with a new weariness.
    John Ruskin
    Veni, vidi, eradici
    (I came, I saw, I kondo'd)

    • monnagran
    • By monnagran 3rd Dec 17, 10:58 AM
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    • 40,197 Thanks
    monnagran
    I totally agree GQ. The situation in city centres is very different to the situation we find down here. In any case I would never hand out money to anyone. I have offered a sandwich and a hot drink. Genuine homeless people are very grateful. The tryers-on will refuse and go on pleading for money.
    Also councils differ greatly. Here they are much better than they were. Until 5 or 6 years ago the council refused to admit that there were any homeless on the island. Their eyes have since been opened.

    Yes there are charlatans as in any other walk of life. There are also cases that bring you to tears and officialdom can be very caring or very cruel and callous. There is no answer. People will go on being people, good, bad and indifferent, whatever side of the fence they find themselves on.
    I believe that friends are quiet angels
    Who lift us to our feet when our wings
    Have trouble remembering how to fly.
    • Chieveley
    • By Chieveley 3rd Dec 17, 11:00 AM
    • 280 Posts
    • 2,882 Thanks
    Chieveley
    If only the food bank recipients were appreciative of the goods they receive then I might consider donating. The local Salvation hall is a few yards from our home. When passing there on foodbank afternoon two young mums were vocalising at how light the bags were this week as they lit up their ciggies and huddled into their designer togs.
    • Doveling
    • By Doveling 3rd Dec 17, 11:00 AM
    • 407 Posts
    • 7,211 Thanks
    Doveling
    Totally agree with Mardatha

    And, although the people who kindly donate and/or volunteer at foodbanks may not be political, the existence of foodbanks is because of politics

    Back to lurkdom because I am eyeing up my soapbox which I have been keeping stored under the stairs
    Not dim .....just living in soft focus
    • Jazee
    • By Jazee 3rd Dec 17, 12:04 PM
    • 4,091 Posts
    • 47,980 Thanks
    Jazee
    I'm aware of all the things that are being done to try to help the homeless. However, the chap I saw the other day lying in the snow was genuine. I think all the professional beggars stayed in their warm flats that day.
    The "Save 12k in 2017" Thread! (#20) December £355 Total £12694.84/£12000




    • Cappella
    • By Cappella 3rd Dec 17, 12:22 PM
    • 419 Posts
    • 5,191 Thanks
    Cappella
    Chievely said
    If only the food bank recipients were appreciative of the goods they receive then I might consider donating. The local Salvation hall is a few yards from our home. When passing there on foodbank afternoon two young mums were vocalising at how light the bags were this week as they lit up their ciggies and huddled into their designer togs.
    Perhaps you should come and help in our food bank. No designer tog clad mums come to ours. Though we did get a very young mum who’d just been thrown out by her abusive husband last week, and she did look quite smart. And I’m definitely NOT a Home Counties matron, ( sorry Greyqueen can’t acknowledge you by quoting as quote won’t workagain for some odd reason) I live in one of the most socially deprived areas in the UK. Yes people abuse food banks. I don’t deny that. And yes GQ is correct, there are people who just won’t be helped living rough on the streets. And yes, it’s a political minefield.
    But I don’t care. As long as there are genuinely hungry and needy people coming to our door I shall carry on manning the barricades.
    Because there but for the grace go you and I - as my friend only too recently found out.
    Last edited by Cappella; 03-12-2017 at 12:25 PM.
    • fuddle
    • By fuddle 3rd Dec 17, 12:27 PM
    • 5,944 Posts
    • 89,749 Thanks
    fuddle
    Totally agree with Mardatha

    And, although the people who kindly donate and/or volunteer at foodbanks may not be political, the existence of foodbanks is because of politics

    Back to lurkdom because I am eyeing up my soapbox which I have been keeping stored under the stairs
    Originally posted by Doveling
    Of course poverty is political but I don't think society can think it's ok to abuse a good cause that tries to assist people who find themselves in poverty.

    The existence of foodbanks is because of goodwill and kindness. The need to use a foodbank is political. In my opinion a small idea to assist people in dire times has grown to levels that can be used as a political tool. I agree with Mar that in having foodbanks means that the politicians don't have to be accountable in the sense that rehabilitation for injured service men and women is funded by charities. It's not right, it's not fair and if this is what you were getting at doveling, I agree but please don't assign a political motivation behind the existence of foodbanks.
    • mardatha
    • By mardatha 3rd Dec 17, 12:32 PM
    • 14,169 Posts
    • 132,342 Thanks
    mardatha
    I feel very angry that people in this country in this day & age are homeless. Likewise that they have to use foodbanks - which should not need to exist at all! But it is very much political. The govt are subtly shifting the responsibility onto us, after they are the ones who caused the problem in the first place. And I refuse to buy into their brainwashing. Which I do know isn't helpful to desperate people dependent on the FB - but it enables TPTB to step back and wash their hands - then stash some more money for themselves.
    Does nobody ever wonder where all the money goes? The cuts, the savings ? Where does it go? Into the pockets of the very rich, that's where. The top 2% or something like that- of this country is richer by far than they were just a few years ago. We are eternally cutting and trimming and yet we never see any sign of the savings being made.
    An they don't wander around Tesco scrimping and counting pennies so that they can buy a few items for the foodbank.!
    • Doveling
    • By Doveling 3rd Dec 17, 12:51 PM
    • 407 Posts
    • 7,211 Thanks
    Doveling
    The existence of foodbanks is because of the need!
    Good people will always help others.

    I carefully put that the people running them may not be politically motivated.

    Agree with you again Mardatha.
    Not dim .....just living in soft focus
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 3rd Dec 17, 1:03 PM
    • 28,643 Posts
    • 72,970 Thanks
    Mojisola
    The existence of foodbanks is because of the need!

    Good people will always help others.
    Originally posted by Doveling
    Foodbanks in their current form may be a newish thing but charities have been helping out needy people for generations and neighbours have informally done the same.
    • fuddle
    • By fuddle 3rd Dec 17, 1:08 PM
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    fuddle
    The existence of foodbanks is because of the need!
    Good people will always help others.

    I carefully put that the people running them may not be politically motivated.

    Agree with you again Mardatha.
    Originally posted by Doveling
    I disagree the existence of foodbanks is because of kindness and goodwill. If it wasn't for this there would be no foodbanks. The need would still be there, but no foodbanks.

    Hopefully you see my point doveling. I see what you're saying. Touche
    • Doveling
    • By Doveling 3rd Dec 17, 1:18 PM
    • 407 Posts
    • 7,211 Thanks
    Doveling
    Chicken and egg
    Not dim .....just living in soft focus
    • GreyQueen
    • By GreyQueen 3rd Dec 17, 2:05 PM
    • 11,432 Posts
    • 219,702 Thanks
    GreyQueen
    A week or so ago, my pal and neighbour SuperGran, saw another neighbour pacing the walkways. She's seen this behaviour in him before, it indicated that he hadn't eaten for a few days. He could have walked a few minutes up the road to the Sally Ann, or gone to the council or DWP for a foodbank chitty, but people have their pride.

    He isn't the most sympatico of people, an ex-con with druggy habits and none too honest IYSWIM, but he had lost his job and hadn't any money for food. SG went into her cupboards and put together two carrier bags of shelf stable goods, knocked on his door and handed them over, saying to him,; Don't say anything, it's a gift.

    A little while later, he slipped a handwritten thank you note through her letterbox, which she appreciated. She's a seventy-something pensioner and doesn't live high on the hog herself, but is a practical sort of practising christian.

    When I had to give up eating gluten-containing foods earlier this year, I was left with some tins of stuff. I could have taken them to a foodbank, which would've helped but then, there are so many skint people in my block, I thought charity begins at home. So I nipped out early on a Saturday morning and put them neatly in a box inside the main entrance, with a note to help yourself for free. They'd disappeared in two goes within two hours, so at least two people/ households got the benefit.
    Every increased possession loads us with a new weariness.
    John Ruskin
    Veni, vidi, eradici
    (I came, I saw, I kondo'd)

    • Bedsit Bob
    • By Bedsit Bob 3rd Dec 17, 2:21 PM
    • 9,835 Posts
    • 51,612 Thanks
    Bedsit Bob
    Another bug in my bonnet at the moment is the rise in homelessness and lack of compassion.
    Originally posted by Jazee
    I imagine a lot of the lack of compassion, is down to the exposes of so called "homeless" beggars, who actually have a home and drive cars.
    My job is Top Secret. Even I don't know what I'm doing.

    Amount I have so far denied the BBC - £1161
    • Bedsit Bob
    • By Bedsit Bob 3rd Dec 17, 2:31 PM
    • 9,835 Posts
    • 51,612 Thanks
    Bedsit Bob
    I feel that we're a nation of people who need the foodbank because we have a lot of debt.
    Originally posted by fuddle
    That I can believe, but there's also those who are just out for whatever they can get for free.

    A work colleague told me a story, about one family of his relatives.

    Many years ago, there was a surplus of canned meat, and the Councils were doling it out to the local OAPs.

    Despite my colleagues relatives both working, and fairly well off, they didn't only collect one lot of free meat, but the husband and wife went to different Town Halls, and got two lots.
    My job is Top Secret. Even I don't know what I'm doing.

    Amount I have so far denied the BBC - £1161
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