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    • Cappella
    • By Cappella 14th Jun 17, 1:08 PM
    • 395 Posts
    • 5,008 Thanks
    Cappella
    Karmacat said
    I'm noting page numbers, so that other people can find roughly where things are within the thread. But the more I go on, the more I find that in a "reply" post of 3 paragraphs or so, only one sentence is relevant to the topic. So I've copied that sentence and added it to the topic. So page numbers have become a good indicator, but only to within 3 pages or so. My thinking was clarity, and brevity.
    I'm trying to do something similar; it's tricky because there's a LOT of chat. I'm cutting and pasting under different subheadings, will add page numbers but often its just a couple of sentences on a page. Hope that's ok?
    • fuddle
    • By fuddle 14th Jun 17, 1:21 PM
    • 5,677 Posts
    • 86,413 Thanks
    fuddle
    I'm copying and pasting relevant pieces and putting them under headings. I won't be adding any other pieces of information due to the time it is taking up.

    I feel it's an important but mammoth task and anyone who wants to help should be encouraged in any way they can without rules in doing so. If expectations are higher than that then I shall need to drop out I'm afraid.

    • Karmacat
    • By Karmacat 14th Jun 17, 1:50 PM
    • 27,494 Posts
    • 149,332 Thanks
    Karmacat
    Thanks guys - I think we're all on the same page (pun not originally intended, but kept in!)

    Stay with, fuddle! Like I said, we're of a mind. More info than this sounds great, I know (previous poster, who had the best intentions, I'm absolutely sure) but once you try it, its a huge task. But also, once you try it, you can see (*I* can see) how valuable a resource its going to be.

    Hugs to all
    xxx
    Retired August 2016
    • ivyleaf
    • By ivyleaf 14th Jun 17, 3:27 PM
    • 4,647 Posts
    • 48,602 Thanks
    ivyleaf
    Well, I take my hat off to those of you who've volunteered i wouldn't have a clue.
    • thriftwizard
    • By thriftwizard 14th Jun 17, 4:44 PM
    • 2,387 Posts
    • 29,604 Thanks
    thriftwizard
    I'm not including page numbers or identities at all, I'm afraid; just copying & pasting relevant sentences/paragraphs under a vague heading! Which is currently - Winter! Too much info will snow us under and bamboozle anyone trying to read it. Sorry if individual contributors are disappointed; I think we should acknowledge ALL posters at the end in some way.
    Angie

    GC 06/17: £250/£500
    BulkBuy Purse 2017:£328.40/£420


    Money's just a substitute for time & talent...
    • fuddle
    • By fuddle 14th Jun 17, 4:59 PM
    • 5,677 Posts
    • 86,413 Thanks
    fuddle
    I've got 5 pages of tips from the 30 pages I've read through. It's a lot of work. I think we don't need to worry about the editing or organising because whatever we do and how ever unorganised it is it's still a damn sight better than a lost resource altogether. Well I think anyway. I'll keep on plodding on then.

    • Karmacat
    • By Karmacat 14th Jun 17, 5:11 PM
    • 27,494 Posts
    • 149,332 Thanks
    Karmacat
    It's a lot of work. I think we don't need to worry about the editing or organising because whatever we do and how ever unorganised it is it's still a damn sight better than a lost resource altogether. Well I think anyway. I'll keep on plodding on then.
    Originally posted by fuddle
    Totally agree!

    Though at the moment I'm having an early tea, and I'm sitting here reading apocalypse fic but don't tell anyone else

    Save
    Retired August 2016
    • MrsLurcherwalker
    • By MrsLurcherwalker 14th Jun 17, 5:25 PM
    • 10,657 Posts
    • 148,304 Thanks
    MrsLurcherwalker
    Computer broke this morning so I've been AWOL but now He Who Knows has stopped harassing the fish and come home he's fixed it.....Hello again !

    We've been really pushed with all the decorating so I haven't even begun my 50 pages yet but will as soon as he has a free period to show me how to do it.

    I was just going to put the post number on and the relevant bit of the post shall I make a separate record of the contributors so we can put a list of acknowledgement in at the beginning or end of the document?
    Go forward with the vision even if no one else can see it!

    No amount of regretting can change the past, and no amount of worrying can change the future!
    • GreyQueen
    • By GreyQueen 14th Jun 17, 5:43 PM
    • 11,075 Posts
    • 213,259 Thanks
    GreyQueen
    S'Ok, Karmakat, I'm having an early tea, also; YS sea bass, accompanied by YS new spuds and YS broccoli. SuperGran is due at 18.00 to update me on all the neighbourhood gossip, then I shall continue reading a novel set in Roman Britain.
    Every increased possession loads us with a new weariness.
    John Ruskin
    Veni, vidi, eradici
    (I came, I saw, I kondo'd)

    • jk0
    • By jk0 14th Jun 17, 6:13 PM
    • 1,918 Posts
    • 22,422 Thanks
    jk0
    S'Ok, Karmakat, I'm having an early tea, also; YS sea bass, accompanied by YS new spuds and YS broccoli. SuperGran is due at 18.00 to update me on all the neighbourhood gossip, then I shall continue reading a novel set in Roman Britain.
    Originally posted by GreyQueen
    Are you saying that really quietly, GQ?

    Edit: What I was saying earlier: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40273715
    Last edited by jk0; 14-06-2017 at 6:17 PM.
    • daz378
    • By daz378 14th Jun 17, 6:35 PM
    • 537 Posts
    • 6,217 Thanks
    daz378
    a bit worried on top floor here 16th ....we have smoke alarms tied to the mains and they work , cos i regularly set them off... i have my own small extinguisher and some masks but dont know where masks are...will look later and put some in obvious places nr sink toilet etc...my bob is set up you all take care
    • GreyQueen
    • By GreyQueen 14th Jun 17, 7:13 PM
    • 11,075 Posts
    • 213,259 Thanks
    GreyQueen
    Just had SuperGran over here for a chat, the talk of the day is the terrible events in London. For the hundreds of thousands of us who live in tower flats, plus all those in lower-rise blocks, this is a scary time.

    daz, I have a recollection of coming across a reference somewhere in the preposphere to smoke escape hoods, worth googling perhaps?

    Tomorrow, after w*rk, I shall source some lightweight footwear to keep in the BOB and also add another pkt of my life-saving meds to the emergency kit in the workplace locker.

    Time to up one's game, I think.
    Every increased possession loads us with a new weariness.
    John Ruskin
    Veni, vidi, eradici
    (I came, I saw, I kondo'd)

    • Bedsit Bob
    • By Bedsit Bob 14th Jun 17, 7:30 PM
    • 9,584 Posts
    • 50,361 Thanks
    Bedsit Bob
    Regarding tower blocks, I'm of the opinion they should be built in pairs, fairly close together, with enclosed walkways between them, say every 10 floors.

    That way, if people are trapped above a fire, in one of the tower blocks, they can climb to the next level up with a walkway, and escape across it, to the other tower block.
    My job is Top Secret. Even I don't know what I'm doing.

    Amount I have so far denied the BBC - £1161
    • Witless
    • By Witless 14th Jun 17, 8:32 PM
    • 491 Posts
    • 1,830 Thanks
    Witless
    daz, I have a recollection of coming across a reference somewhere in the preposphere to smoke escape hoods, worth googling perhaps?
    Originally posted by GreyQueen
    They're available ... at a price! https://www.frontline-safety.co.uk/protect/escape/smoke-hoods I know you can't put a value on your life but I think you'd probably need a 'good' one as opposed to a 'cheapie' - they seem to range from £120 to over £300 (prices don't include VAT)

    Would a wet towel not get you out? Assuming of course you simply want a straightforward 'exit' rather than a 'search & rescue'?
    • GreyQueen
    • By GreyQueen 14th Jun 17, 8:37 PM
    • 11,075 Posts
    • 213,259 Thanks
    GreyQueen
    I'm not sure if the pattern of a fire would enable it to leap from tower to tower, in such a situation?

    I do think tower blocks are a flippin' stupid idea and that no more of them, residential or commercial office types, should be built. Why? Because we are commencing the downslope of peak oil, and the future will make electicity more expensive and the generation of it less reliable. They'll be white elephants and we might not even end up with the tech to dismantle them before they fall down.

    Hell, I've heard the reasonable assessment that The Big One in downtown LA or a hurricane going thru downtown Houston would drop so much glass from towers that the streets would be buried 20 ft deep in shards. Nothing living would survive that.

    With a tower, you need power to raise the water and to run the lifts. Mega buidlings are likely to be unaffordable to maintain and plenty of the council towers in the UK are 1960s and 1970s builds. You can tart 'em up but they were thrown up on the cheap.

    Woman I know, a pensioner these days, typed the specs for some infamous towers built in the 1960s when she worked for one of the country's biggest builders. She said they were very cheaply built even at the time, and we've had 40-50 years of wear & tear on them since.

    ETA; Witless, a wet towel or shirt would certainly help but it would still allow smoke through. Smoke inhalation is what kills most victims in a fire, not actually being burned, flinch-worthy though that image be, today of all days.

    Also, as well as coughing, smoke would be causing your eyes to tear up, so the likely scenario would be struggling to breathe and coughing fit to burst, probably doubling over a lot, eyes streaming tears and also vision obscured by smoke. Add to this the adrenalin and cortisol rush of terror and you have a potent mix, especially as a burning building will contain a lot of toxic smoke. Horrible, horrible thing to think about.
    Last edited by GreyQueen; 14-06-2017 at 8:42 PM.
    Every increased possession loads us with a new weariness.
    John Ruskin
    Veni, vidi, eradici
    (I came, I saw, I kondo'd)

    • maryb
    • By maryb 14th Jun 17, 8:58 PM
    • 3,286 Posts
    • 38,829 Thanks
    maryb
    Tower blocks are not even that efficient in terms of land use as they have to have so much clear space around them. Medium density conventional housing is much more user friendly and carefully planned the density is not too bad

    I seem to recall that a lot of councils are getting rid of high level walkways because it makes it very difficult for the police to catch anyone they are in pursuit of
    It doesn't matter if you are a glass half full or half empty sort of person. Keep it topped up! Cheers!
    • GreyQueen
    • By GreyQueen 14th Jun 17, 9:11 PM
    • 11,075 Posts
    • 213,259 Thanks
    GreyQueen
    We don't have high level walkways but we do have a labyrinthine layout which means that when Police chase anyone into our area, they tend to lose them as there are so many ways for the target to run. I've heard this from officers themselves.

    We also see newbie officers, youngsters or just newly deployed to our area, being brought down here and shown the many which ways someone can run. I was amused to earwig on one pairing of old hand and newbie as the old hand told him: this place is a f*****g rabbit warren, mate.

    Yup. And us bunnies have big ears. SG was over here a few hours ago and I shut my window which was open a crack before we got talking. The Police have been known to stand against the walls outside of groundfloor flats and listen in to dodgy characters conversing about criminal matters.

    The only good thing about being in a dodgy neighbourhood is that you live your life here in code yellow, in terms of alertness, and are not complacent about life. SG in particular is as sharp as a bucket of razor blades and only pretends to be a little old lady.
    Every increased possession loads us with a new weariness.
    John Ruskin
    Veni, vidi, eradici
    (I came, I saw, I kondo'd)

    • Witless
    • By Witless 14th Jun 17, 9:31 PM
    • 491 Posts
    • 1,830 Thanks
    Witless
    i think the biggie is 'get out, stay out' - better to get needlessly cold & wet than the alternative.

    One of those interviewed this morning hadn't waited to even put on shoes (quite correctly IMHO).

    Another essential is to rehearse / revise your escape plan - you literally have to be able to complete it with your eyes closed. (or without your glasses if you wear them)

    Neighbours at the Witless hovel have, no doubt, been astounded at the ungainly exit of a 60ish muppet from an upstairs window onto the carport roof.

    It's not aesthetically pleasing but I keep slip on shoes (moccasins, crocs etc) on the window cill above the carport, on the landing, and front & back doors with the intention of 'grab and go' rather 'putting on' IYSWIM.

    I think quick reaction, even with poor prep, is far better than slow & cautious irrespective of the forethought.

    My 'backup' flash drives aren't even a consideration - they're in friends/relatives houses.

    Hopefully I never have to find out.
    • daz378
    • By daz378 14th Jun 17, 11:00 PM
    • 537 Posts
    • 6,217 Thanks
    daz378
    think grenfell tower epitomizes the callous disregard TPTB have for poor towerblock/estate citizens.... they tried to get lawyers to complain of the health and safety issues....but of course most legal aid has been withdrawn.....think we have similiar cladding but another resident told me it had been rendered ....not quite as risky i think........thanks about the smokehood will look into it
    • Karmacat
    • By Karmacat 15th Jun 17, 9:00 AM
    • 27,494 Posts
    • 149,332 Thanks
    Karmacat
    ETA; Witless, a wet towel or shirt would certainly help but it would still allow smoke through. Smoke inhalation is what kills most victims in a fire, not actually being burned, flinch-worthy though that image be, today of all days.

    Also, as well as coughing, smoke would be causing your eyes to tear up, so the likely scenario would be struggling to breathe and coughing fit to burst, probably doubling over a lot, eyes streaming tears and also vision obscured by smoke. Add to this the adrenalin and cortisol rush of terror and you have a potent mix, especially as a burning building will contain a lot of toxic smoke. Horrible, horrible thing to think about.
    Originally posted by GreyQueen
    It really is horrible, isn't it

    In the spirit of mitigating *one* of those elements ... what do people think about using cheap eye goggles, the type you get in a poundshop, for kids and adults to go swimming? Last year, they were £1 for two pairs in my poundshop. It doesn't address the breathing issue, I'm just trying to think what could we do, at our present level of income?

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    Retired August 2016
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