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    • GreyQueen
    • By GreyQueen 12th Jun 17, 4:59 PM
    • 11,056 Posts
    • 212,935 Thanks
    GreyQueen
    Looking forward to it, fuddle and all the vols.

    I have a bag of dried pine cones in the bike shed here, ready to be used on the kelly kettle just outside, if necessary. They were harvested in the parental back yard, which benefits from the fallout of a pine plantation.

    I have eyeballed a couple of pine trees in the city, a few mins' walk away, which are of some slightly exotic pinus with very large cones, which has been slated as a harvesting point in the future.

    Re history, I'm a privileged modern member of the working class, by which I mean I'm educated and have a white-collar job. First generation off the land. I know how harsh life was for my grandparents and great-grandparents, from their anecdotes and from reading local (as in local to the very villages) history.

    What I bear in mind at all times is that the Haves have never shirked the opportunity to screw the Have-Nots. It's pretty much an inevitable part of any society more advanced than hunter-gatherers, and all across the globe. People strive to become a Have, or to elevate their offspring into the Haves, and sometimes forget that social improvements are achieved by collective rather than individual efforts.

    fuddle, some of my ancestors went briefly into Co Durham to work as miners when there was no work to be had as agricultural labourers. Gawd knows what they made of it, they only stayed a few years and came back to our part of the world and farm life.

    In the 1920s depression here, a local farmer decided to screw over the local ag labs by bringing in even poorer labourers from Ireland. Plan was to accomodate them in a barracks-like shed on his farm and pay them less than the locals, forcing the locals out of work and their families into destitution.

    Before they arrived, the barracks mysterious burned down one night. No one was ever caught. Village rumour said the gallon of petrol used as the accelerant was provided by the local vicar. Heinous act of vandalism, or a community uniting to protect its most impoverished and vulnerable workers? I know what I think of it.

    The farmer got the message and no outside labourers were brought in.
    Every increased possession loads us with a new weariness.
    John Ruskin
    Veni, vidi, eradici
    (I came, I saw, I kondo'd)

    • mardatha
    • By mardatha 12th Jun 17, 5:06 PM
    • 13,819 Posts
    • 127,903 Thanks
    mardatha
    God you lot talk a lot. Been poorly but back to full working order now.
    • ivyleaf
    • By ivyleaf 12th Jun 17, 5:33 PM
    • 4,630 Posts
    • 48,359 Thanks
    ivyleaf
    So glad you're feeling better mar. How is the RV now?

    GQ All I can say is three cheers for that vicar!
    • GreyQueen
    • By GreyQueen 12th Jun 17, 5:45 PM
    • 11,056 Posts
    • 212,935 Thanks
    GreyQueen
    So glad you're feeling better mar. How is the RV now?

    GQ All I can say is three cheers for that vicar!
    Originally posted by ivyleaf
    Yup. A practically-minded true Christian gentleman with a real care for his flock.

    One thing to remember is that please sir can I have some more? usually gets you nowt but a clout across the head.

    Social systems which we regard as incredibly backwards are just about within living memory even now. Asking nicely doesn't usually get you much. Earnest papers by social reformers help somewhat as do their more modern versions, the documentary (Cathy Come Home, anyone?) but what really gets things moving is putting the fear on the ruling castes.
    Every increased possession loads us with a new weariness.
    John Ruskin
    Veni, vidi, eradici
    (I came, I saw, I kondo'd)

    • Perplexed Pineapple
    • By Perplexed Pineapple 12th Jun 17, 6:43 PM
    • 395 Posts
    • 6,234 Thanks
    Perplexed Pineapple
    Thrifty, I think it is an excellent idea to collect the ideas and comments from the old thread together. I don't think I will have enough spare time to be much help this month (but if you are still going in July please PM me). Can I suggest that you lay down some ground rules for formatting at the start? Things like whether to include the headers, the thanks count, things like that. If everybody does something different it would create a lot more work for the poor b*gg*r who has to edit it - I seem to remember there are over 2000 pages....
    • karcher
    • By karcher 12th Jun 17, 10:06 PM
    • 1,078 Posts
    • 9,071 Thanks
    karcher
    [.
    Originally posted by Perplexed Pineapple
    Sorry to butt in preppers ...but just had to say...

    Perplexed Pineapple What a fantastic username


    As you were .....
    • ivyleaf
    • By ivyleaf 13th Jun 17, 9:21 AM
    • 4,630 Posts
    • 48,359 Thanks
    ivyleaf
    Sorry to butt in preppers ...but just had to say...

    Perplexed Pineapple What a fantastic username


    As you were .....
    Originally posted by karcher

    It is good, isn't it On another well-known forum there's a poster called Lookoutapiano, and I'd so love to know why she chose that.
    • jk0
    • By jk0 13th Jun 17, 9:45 AM
    • 1,914 Posts
    • 22,372 Thanks
    jk0
    The Collapse of Penn Station
    Reading Zerohedge this morning, I was very impressed by one of the comments to this article.


    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-12/collapse-penn-station-another-failure-government-enterprise

    The comment numbers seem to change, so look for a post by 'Rejected' on June 12th, 10.28pm that starts:

    The greed, contempt and arrogance that is government is also in American businesses as well. Americans do not know how to run businesses. They have been lobotomized (aka educated) in universities and colleges around the country. Their idea is for everyone to have degrees, everyone in management and zero employees. Saving money for bonuses and country club memberships is essential while producing a good product secondary at best. Spend billions for advertising but little for production. Does the hamburger you get look like the one in the picture?
    • GreyQueen
    • By GreyQueen 14th Jun 17, 6:42 AM
    • 11,056 Posts
    • 212,935 Thanks
    GreyQueen
    OMG, have you seen news of the fire at Grenfell Tower in London? Mass evac in small hours and also evac of surrounding area. Something to send the cold shudders down this flat dweller's spine.

    One reason to always have a bug-out bag that includes critical documents and a thumb drive with your computer documents backed-up regularly.
    Every increased possession loads us with a new weariness.
    John Ruskin
    Veni, vidi, eradici
    (I came, I saw, I kondo'd)

    • Cappella
    • By Cappella 14th Jun 17, 7:21 AM
    • 395 Posts
    • 5,004 Thanks
    Cappella
    Just switched the news on GQ and am shocked by the reports. How dreadful for those poor people. Apparently the fire alarms didnt work properly according to a guy who lived on the 7th floor?
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 14th Jun 17, 7:26 AM
    • 12,787 Posts
    • 35,144 Thanks
    moneyistooshorttomention
    The film "Towering Inferno" came to mind - and I guess it was only a matter of time before that happened ITRW.

    Those poor people - and what a bad time to happen (ie right in the middle of the night).

    I was sitting there thinking "Just as well not to live in a tower block if one can help it". Personally - I've always hated them anyway - if only with visions of wondering what happens if the lift stops working. A very good argument for low-level housing. It's a blessing to know one only has to literally open a window and climb out - or, at worst, somone having an ordinary ladder to hand to get out of a 1st floor room.
    ploughing my own furrow...the rain begins with a single drop...

    #I'mWithNoel
    • MrsLurcherwalker
    • By MrsLurcherwalker 14th Jun 17, 7:53 AM
    • 10,602 Posts
    • 147,605 Thanks
    MrsLurcherwalker
    If only everyone had choice over where they could live. Many folks will count themselves very lucky to have a roof of any kind over their heads in anything from a bedsit in a basement to the top floor of a tower block. Relatively few of us have the luxury of actually being able to choose where we live and what we live in. Anything has to be better than life on the streets or sofa surfing with friends and family or even living in a car!!!
    Go forward with the vision even if no one else can see it!

    No amount of regretting can change the past, and no amount of worrying can change the future!
    • GreyQueen
    • By GreyQueen 14th Jun 17, 7:59 AM
    • 11,056 Posts
    • 212,935 Thanks
    GreyQueen
    Just switched the news on GQ and am shocked by the reports. How dreadful for those poor people. Apparently the fire alarms didnt work properly according to a guy who lived on the 7th floor?
    Originally posted by Cappella
    I heard that same interview on Radio 4. There seems to be a question as to whether the block had a central fire alarm system and whether it sounded, and an issue of individual flats having their own fire alarms and if they sounded. In our block, if one individual flat's alarm sounds, it's audible over a large area and people pop out of their doors like cuckoos out of clocks, to check it's nothing worse than burned toast.

    My landlord has several tower blocks , although none as tall as this one in London. I imagine that a number of local authorities will be watching today's news anxiously and waiting for the proper reports to see what went wrong and what, if anything, could have been done to prevent or mitigate the situation. I have heard that the fire brigade here have told them that they believe it is only a matter of time before there is a major loss of life in a tower block fire.

    It's been some years since Shoebox Towers had a fire. No one died or was even injured, but a number of people lost their flats and the building needed major repairs. SG lived here then, it was before my time, and she's told me what it was like to have to evacate about 1 am with the fire brigade running around the landings pounding on doors yelling at people to get out. I also heard the other side of it from the (then) housing officer.

    Folks, in an evac, you will have a just a handful of seconds to run and you will be in what you stand up in and have grabbed your loved ones and possibly your pets and that will be it. There will be no time to pack your BOB, which is why mine is beside my bed at all times, with a second version in the lottie shed and a back-up at the parental home, and back-up meds at my workplace locker.

    Those poor people in that tower will have lost everything. Those who have escaped without injury will be considering themselves blessed this morning, once the shock has started to wear off, but they are still in community centres and churches in their nightwear. And I don't even want to think about the probable loss of life and the dreadful injuries.

    Which reminds me of a shortcoming in my own BOB which I intend to rectify in the next couple of days; no footwear. I have what else I need to ensure that I can be decently clad but, if I can't grab some kind of footwear in passsing - and panic may preclude this - I need to have something in the bag itself.

    I'm a big woman with big feet and a sturdy pair of footwear would fill the BOB. I shall look for something lightweight, like plimsolls, which will see me able to walk until I can source something sturdier (there is a pair of DMs in the lottie shed but I wouldn't fancy the 1.25 mile barefoot walk to get to them).
    Last edited by GreyQueen; 14-06-2017 at 8:02 AM.
    Every increased possession loads us with a new weariness.
    John Ruskin
    Veni, vidi, eradici
    (I came, I saw, I kondo'd)

    • ivyleaf
    • By ivyleaf 14th Jun 17, 8:46 AM
    • 4,630 Posts
    • 48,359 Thanks
    ivyleaf
    Plimsolls sound an excellent idea GQ. I know we're all very glad you live on the ground floor.
    Those poor, poor people
    • mardatha
    • By mardatha 14th Jun 17, 8:52 AM
    • 13,819 Posts
    • 127,903 Thanks
    mardatha
    I'm just up and haven't seen the news yet. I used to have nightmares when I lived on the 7th floor of a tower block, nobody seemed to care about possible fire but me. We had evacuatre once in the middle of the miners strike down a pitch black central stairwell, and I had a newborn and a toddler. That was in the days before I knew about BOBs and such like. Off to see Sky News now .
    • jk0
    • By jk0 14th Jun 17, 9:03 AM
    • 1,914 Posts
    • 22,372 Thanks
    jk0
    I wonder if they will be reviewing the 'shelter in place' strategy for fires in high rises now? I have always thought it was daft. Anyone sheltering in the top half of that block will be toast.

    (BTW, I bet it doesn't collapse like Building 7.)
    • Karmacat
    • By Karmacat 14th Jun 17, 9:04 AM
    • 27,467 Posts
    • 149,121 Thanks
    Karmacat
    I'm just seeing online reports and a few twitter videos it looks absolutely terrible and I've also seen, on The Guardian's live thread, a letter written by residents to the council or somebody like it, saying the fire hazard was unacceptable, and giving reasons. It sounds like a case of using the lowest common denominator fittings to make the maximum profit

    Which reminds me of a shortcoming in my own BOB which I intend to rectify in the next couple of days; no footwear. I have what else I need to ensure that I can be decently clad but, if I can't grab some kind of footwear in passsing - and panic may preclude this - I need to have something in the bag itself.
    Originally posted by GreyQueen
    I have a very old, very thin pair of trainers in my BOB, which is planned exactly for the situation of a house fire. Even thin ones take up a lot of space, but the thought of being outside in the middle of the night with nothing but my nightie ... that makes it worthwhile

    I feel so sorry for those people

    Save
    Retired August 2016
    • Karmacat
    • By Karmacat 14th Jun 17, 9:11 AM
    • 27,467 Posts
    • 149,121 Thanks
    Karmacat
    Popped on here first to report a couple of other preps. I went to the British Museum yesterday, meeting up with my sister at the London terminus our trains use, and while I was waiting for her, I saw a headline on the electronic noticeboard: "shots fired at railway station" - just the kind of headline you don't want to see! It was the Munich thing, turns out it wasn't terror-related, but we did get out as fast as we could. And we've agreed to meet somewhere less exposed: we used to meet in the centre of the concourse, now we'll meet in a side exit corridor that has lots of alcoves where one of us can stand without impeding the flow of traffic. And hide, if necessary

    Also a slightly ridiculous thing. I slowed down in my dehydrating efforts because I was a bit unsure about the day to day efforts of cleaning the dehydrator god, I'm such a slut I don't have a washing up bowl, or a plug for the kitchen sink, come to that! I've now realised - I can fill the base of the dehydrator itself with washing up water with a dash of milton fluid added, let all the trays drain for 10 mins, shake them, then dry them thoroughly with a clean teatowel.

    I know it sounds mad, but finding a **routine** to do this is really important to me, I'll be able to take much more advantage of the crops in my garden

    Save
    Retired August 2016
    • Karmacat
    • By Karmacat 14th Jun 17, 12:10 PM
    • 27,467 Posts
    • 149,121 Thanks
    Karmacat
    This is my second go at my allotted 50 pages of the previous thread, so I thought I might just as well say *how* I'm summarising, not just for the other summarisers, but for everyone else too:

    - I'm noting page numbers, so that other people can find roughly where things are within the thread. But the more I go on, the more I find that in a "reply" post of 3 paragraphs or so, only one sentence is relevant to the topic. So I've copied that sentence and added it to the topic. So page numbers have become a good indicator, but only to within 3 pages or so. My thinking was clarity, and brevity.

    - chat has been rigourously excluded, as have names and thanks votes, not going there.

    - to make my topics clear, I've started to put headings at the top. Sometimes.

    I think it's going to be really difficult, but also really advantageous. There's a lot of practical wisdom in all of this that's a million miles away from a lot of stuff that's out there. But also difficult because a lot of things fit under several categories. And the posts I'm looking at are back in 2012 - cyberattack is much more important now than it was then, for instance, but the evolution of the thread will deal with that in due course, natch.

    Thoughts? Objections? Additions?
    Retired August 2016
    • greenbee
    • By greenbee 14th Jun 17, 12:58 PM
    • 11,986 Posts
    • 213,716 Thanks
    greenbee
    KC - page numbers will depend on the user's settings as there are options as to how many posts per page. You might want to use post numbers instead...
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