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    • monnagran
    • By monnagran 16th Mar 17, 7:22 PM
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    monnagran
    jk0: I can only repeat what everyone else has said. It is highly unlikely that this situation will not be spotted and the consequences could be dire for both the boy and his father.
    As GQ said, even if the boy lives like an agrophobic monk while his father is away there is no guarantee that an emergency won't arise that the boy is unable to cope with.
    There are few 15 year old boys who have the life experience to organise themselves for even a couple of weeks on their own.....and on £20???

    I have brought up 2 of my own boys and several of other people's and possibly know what I am talking about. The first time I went on holiday leaving my eldest, aged 18, on his own I spent weeks before hand issuing the rules and regulations, making lists of dos and don'ts, filling the freezer with meals, warning the neighbours, dotting the "i"s and crossing the "t"s and organising the local branch of MI5 to keep their eyes peeled.
    Content that I had covered all the bases I set of for a holiday in France. I had only driven for about 15 minutes when I realised that I had left a vital document behind. Turning around I drove back home. I had been gone for about half an hour. The party was in full swing as I turned into the drive. The music was blaring, the girls were hanging out of the windows - they must have been hiding in the bushes as I left, and more revellers were arriving. I grabbed my documents, uttered blood curdling threats and left, calling in at my friendly local police station as I passed on my way to the ferry port, to alert them to the situation.

    If your friend thinks that leaving a 15 year old on his own is appropriate parenting he really shouldn't have custody.

    I understand how you feel that you should help the boy but just be aware that you may be implicated if something goes badly wrong.

    What a wretched situation. Sorry I can't help much more.

    x
    I believe that friends are quiet angels
    Who lift us to our feet when our wings
    Have trouble remembering how to fly.
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 16th Mar 17, 7:24 PM
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    In all these scenarios other people are (understandably) coming up with as "possible problems" the thing is to ensure, one way or another, there is a viable alternative if you don't look out for this boy.

    If "the authorities" found out - then that boy could find himself in a rather worse scenario and for rather longer (eg taken into care). That would not be in the boys best interests and it would be rather a lot more in his best interests to ensure he is kept safe/sound and the "authorities" don't find out anything about it.

    If you told the wrong person - then that person might take it upon themselves to interfere and tell "the authorities" and sit back and feel very righteous about themselves and ignore the fact "the authorities" might do something like putting that boy in an even worse situation (eg into care).

    The nearest I've come to a situation like this over the years = I just kept my mouth shut and made sure the child concerned was looked after properly and no-one "official" any the wiser. I know we hadnt got to the over-cautious 2010's at that point - but I'm not a "child" person and found myself looking after a child before now for a fortnight and no-one batting an eyelid and the child duly telling everyone how well I'd looked after them afterwards apparently. I even landed up agreeing to look after another one I hadnt clapped eyes on at one point years back - and only didnt do so in the event because the next door neighbour did instead.

    Both children were absolutely fine/there werent any problems at all. That was that.
    Last edited by moneyistooshorttomention; 16-03-2017 at 7:27 PM.
    Thought for the day - don't condemn someone for doing something you are going to turn round and do tomorrow yourself.

    Working out what celebratory meal to have on 29 March...
    • thriftwizard
    • By thriftwizard 16th Mar 17, 8:15 PM
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    thriftwizard
    Echoing all that's been said above, jk0; it's a situation with wayyy too much potential for things to go wrong or mischief to occur, and the Dad seriously needs to re-think his plan or make sensible arrangements for the boy's care. We did leave our two older lads one weekend when they were in their mid-teens & we HAD to go to Wales to visit a very-sick elderly relative, but our then-next-door neighbour, a teacher and godmother to one of our other children, kept a very strict eye on them! There was plenty of food in the house, but they made & ate omelettes all weekend for some reason & there wasn't an egg left in the house or even the garden when we got back - and we had 12 chickens at the time.

    At that time, and possibly to this day, there was no legal age for leaving a child alone in the house. It was deemed to be a matter for parental judgement, rightly so in most cases, because there's a world of difference between leaving a 15 y.o. alone in the house for half an hour to nip to the supermarket, and leaving them for 2 weeks to nip to Africa, or leaving a 5 y.o. alone for half an hour for that matter. Common sense should tell you that the last two are recipes for disaster, but the first isn't... The only remotely-relevant law at that time was that a child under 12 could not be left alone in a room with an unguarded fire; this may have changed since as they are now 27 & 28. The other factor is that a lot depends on the individual child; there are 12 y.o.s who can cope perfectly well for an hour or so, whatever life throws at them, and 17½ y.o.s who can't. Also, remember that it's not that long ago that people could leave school at 14 and go to work, and in many societies to this day they can get married at that kind of age because they are deemed to be adults... Would put that in italics if it'd let me, because jk0's friend may well consider his son to be virtually adult, coming from a different part of the world. (I mean no offence to anyone by that statement.)

    Anyway, your friend needs to engage his common sense, realise that things may be seen very differently here, and that he's laying himself open to problems at the very least, even if his son is extremely sensible & trustworthy & comes to no harm. Please explain that to him!
    Angie

    GC 03/17 - sitting this month out...
    Bulk-buying purse 2017 - £118.53/£420
    Money's just a substitute for time & talent...
    • GreyQueen
    • By GreyQueen 17th Mar 17, 7:03 AM
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    GreyQueen
    Less than a month after turning 15, my own parents were in the workforce, as was the norm for non-elite people of their generation. They were, however, living in their parental homes (and were until marriage), and their employers knew they were youngsters and they weren't expected to do a man's work or have the sense and abilities of a grown person. In effect, they were young adults on probation, easing their way incrementally into adult life. My Dad (mid-seventies now) has said several times that he didn't consider himself to be a child at 15 and would have been offended to be described as such.

    I was thinking about this issue a lot after I went offline last night. In terms of physical ability, there is nothing about looking after themselves for a fortnight which ought to tax the abilities of a developmentally-normal 15 year old. Not cooking, a bit of cleaning, laundering clothes, doing one's homework with parental pestering and getting to bed and up at a reasonable hour.

    However, there are good reasons why we don't allow 15 year old people to drive cars or trucks, fly airliners, operate heavy machinery, sign legal contracts include marriage contracts, and they are all to do with the immaturity of the 15 year old brain.

    Risk asssessment, and the ability to predict consequences from actions based on experience, is accrued over time. A person in their mid-teens doesn't know what they don't know, they're ignorant of the many things which can go wrong and are unfortunately seen as easy prey by the unscrupulous.

    jk0's pal is heading for a fall if he insists on following this course of action; all it would take is for a concerned neighbour to pick up a phone and call childrens' social services and they'll be on the case. He could also find the police waiting to have a word on his return, and the case back in the family court.
    Every increased possession loads us with a new weariness.
    John Ruskin
    Veni, vidi, eradici
    (I came, I saw, I kondo'd)

    • Bedsit Bob
    • By Bedsit Bob 17th Mar 17, 7:53 AM
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    Bedsit Bob
    However, there are good reasons why we don't allow 15 year old people to drive cars or trucks, fly airliners, operate heavy machinery, sign legal contracts include marriage contracts, and they are all to do with the immaturity of the 15 year old brain.
    Originally posted by GreyQueen
    And yet, just 12 months later, we allow two of those activities.
    My job is Top Secret. Even I don't know what I'm doing.

    Amount I have so far denied the BBC - £1161
    • GreyQueen
    • By GreyQueen 17th Mar 17, 8:00 AM
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    GreyQueen
    And yet, just 12 months later, we allow two of those activities.
    Originally posted by Bedsit Bob
    Which of those do we allow at 16? Driving? I don't think so. Try to sign a tenancy as a 16 y.o and you'll be laughed out of the room.

    Hell, I've worked in factories and under-18s weren't even allowed to use a meat-slicing machine.
    Every increased possession loads us with a new weariness.
    John Ruskin
    Veni, vidi, eradici
    (I came, I saw, I kondo'd)

    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 17th Mar 17, 8:00 AM
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    Certainly a generational thing here.

    My parents (the very elderly generation) both left school at 14. My father was made to leave basically and not allowed to take up a scholarship he'd won (courtesy of large poor family). So both of them were out working at that age.

    As for running a house - my mother was not only going off to work at 14 - but was also running her mothers house for her (eg doing all the housework for her lazy mother), despite being charged a high proportion of her salary as "board" by said lazy mother.

    Add that a few centuries back the rich and powerful were marrying off their daughters sometimes at very early ages (despite no birth control around back then - so there must have been some children giving birth to children presumably).

    Where do you draw the line? After all - our own Government doesnt accept people are adults until well into their 20s (think it might even be 35?) - if we judge by when they get full adult benefits etc (eg it's accepted they're entitled to rent a self-contained one bedroom flat - rather than houseshare) if they're unemployed.
    Last edited by moneyistooshorttomention; 17-03-2017 at 8:04 AM.
    Thought for the day - don't condemn someone for doing something you are going to turn round and do tomorrow yourself.

    Working out what celebratory meal to have on 29 March...
    • jk0
    • By jk0 17th Mar 17, 8:37 AM
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    jk0
    Thanks guys.

    I think if there was no-one who thought it odd, or any other children in my friend's son's life, then he could probably cope okay with some extra food. He is a sensible lad, but 'easily-led'. The reason he is back in Reading is that he was caught as a passenger in a car his friends had stolen in London. Effectively then, he is the new kid at school, so might be even more needful of peer approval, which might lead him into trouble if left on his own.

    I'll have a quiet word with Auntie. Funnily enough, we met outside one of my rentals last summer, and had a nice chat.
    • monnagran
    • By monnagran 17th Mar 17, 10:26 AM
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    monnagran
    Phew! thank goodness jk0, I was just concerned that in your desire to help you might land yourself in bother. Definitely have a word with Auntie, she should be able to sort things out from the basis of family concern.
    If you still want to help, you could offer to help HER. Therefore not being responsible yourself but still offering some assistance.
    Win, win.
    I believe that friends are quiet angels
    Who lift us to our feet when our wings
    Have trouble remembering how to fly.
    • Nargleblast
    • By Nargleblast 17th Mar 17, 11:54 AM
    • 8,950 Posts
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    Nargleblast
    Good thinking, jko. If your mate doesn't appreciate it then he's a prat who doesn't deserve a friend like you.
    Debt free date.....3 August 2015
    Now building up a Doomsday Cash Stash



    March NSDs. 12 of 15
    • Bedsit Bob
    • By Bedsit Bob 17th Mar 17, 12:11 PM
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    Bedsit Bob
    Which of those do we allow at 16? Driving? I don't think so.
    Originally posted by GreyQueen
    Driving at 16 is allowed, for people with disabilities.

    It's also allowed at 16, on mopeds.

    The other one I was referring to, is getting married.
    My job is Top Secret. Even I don't know what I'm doing.

    Amount I have so far denied the BBC - £1161
    • Si Clist
    • By Si Clist 17th Mar 17, 12:44 PM
    • 334 Posts
    • 2,580 Thanks
    Si Clist
    ...The other one I was referring to, is getting married.
    Originally posted by Bedsit Bob
    But only with parental consent.
    A positive attitude might not solve all your problems, but it'll annoy enough people to make the effort worthwhile
    • Bedsit Bob
    • By Bedsit Bob 17th Mar 17, 1:56 PM
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    Bedsit Bob
    But only with parental consent.
    Originally posted by Si Clist
    But it is still legal to get married at 16.
    My job is Top Secret. Even I don't know what I'm doing.

    Amount I have so far denied the BBC - £1161
    • mardatha
    • By mardatha 17th Mar 17, 5:00 PM
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    mardatha
    Not in Scotland - you can legally get married here at 16 with or without permission. I did. And you can drive a tractor at 16. LOL the odd random facts that run around in my head!
    • GreyQueen
    • By GreyQueen 17th Mar 17, 8:20 PM
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    GreyQueen
    Not in Scotland - you can legally get married here at 16 with or without permission. I did. And you can drive a tractor at 16. LOL the odd random facts that run around in my head!
    Originally posted by mardatha
    You could drive your tractor to your wedding! One of my cousins went to her nuptials in an HGV tractor cab (hubs is a trucker). It even had white ribbons on (the truck, not the groom, I hasten it add).

    Have re-filled the 25 litre carrier and had a tidy-around of the secret squirrel food cache, rotating out some cans. The shortest-dated things in there now have 12 months on them, others have 24-36 months til BBs.

    Supplies are pretty well hidden around here, so that I can continue to pass as Norma Normal from Normalshire, but gawd help me if a house clearance firm ever gets loose in my gaff.
    Every increased possession loads us with a new weariness.
    John Ruskin
    Veni, vidi, eradici
    (I came, I saw, I kondo'd)

    • herbily
    • By herbily 17th Mar 17, 8:41 PM
    • 185 Posts
    • 1,651 Thanks
    herbily
    Anyone old enough to remember the "Protect and Survive" leaflets? They're back: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/16/protect-survive-nuclear-war-republished-pamphlet


    I thought remembered being told that if you were caught outside in a nuclear explosion you should pull your jacket over your head - and there was an illustration of someone in a ditch doing precisely that. Really hope never to have to test that in real life. GQ, it's just as well you topped up your water containers!
    One day at a time...
    • jk0
    • By jk0 17th Mar 17, 8:57 PM
    • 1,854 Posts
    • 21,733 Thanks
    jk0
    Why Is Goldman On A Buying Spree For Delinquent Mortgages
    Anyone read about Golden Sack's latest mortgage shenanigans?

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-17/why-goldman-buying-spree-delinquent-mortgages
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 18th Mar 17, 7:13 AM
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    Anyone old enough to remember the "Protect and Survive" leaflets? They're back: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/16/protect-survive-nuclear-war-republished-pamphlet


    I thought remembered being told that if you were caught outside in a nuclear explosion you should pull your jacket over your head - and there was an illustration of someone in a ditch doing precisely that. Really hope never to have to test that in real life. GQ, it's just as well you topped up your water containers!
    Originally posted by herbily
    I tried to give a link to that - but it didnt work.

    The article I read on that was a spoof in the Daily Mail by the reporter - and not "for real" by Government employees lacking in any sense on this. I wondered why he'd written it. Now I see - the original daft leaflet re-issued out of historical interest.....

    I remember how everyone in my CND group laughed cynically when that leaflet was produced and basically took the view that by far the best advice the Government could have given was to try to ensure we were right underneath a likely target (not a problem for us in the event - as we were). At least our problems would have been over in a matter of seconds - as we got vapourised.

    *********

    jko - Admits that, right now, I'm focusing more on the useful study of how unrealistic a political "ego in action" can be and if she'll ever wake up and smell the coffee. I think my Tesco's Finest Strength 5 will be staying in the cupboard somehow...

    Right now - I think Theresa May is doing a pretty good job of "standing firm" all round.
    Last edited by moneyistooshorttomention; 18-03-2017 at 7:29 AM.
    Thought for the day - don't condemn someone for doing something you are going to turn round and do tomorrow yourself.

    Working out what celebratory meal to have on 29 March...
    • DigForVictory
    • By DigForVictory 18th Mar 17, 8:21 AM
    • 6,484 Posts
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    DigForVictory
    gawd help me if a house clearance firm ever gets loose in my gaff.
    Originally posted by GreyQueen
    And then some! I can sort of contemplate m'husband dying younger than actuarially expected - some facts you unwillingly sidle past without making eye contact with, but what the heck I do with All The Tools (some of which I know how to use, others of which I'd be pushed to say what century they were used in let alone what they were for).
    Quite how we've got here with a full workbench and a socking great lathe up on the third floor, I can remember how [Owch!] but just not why (other than we don't have an external shed). Ah well.

    Me, I stash food. And I acquired about 7 sewing machines that I really ought to let go to more appreciative homes. Who'll believe the 3 Kenwoods (All charity shop scores) are his? (I was taught to cook with a bowl, spoon, scales, chopping board & sharp knife - mechanisation & I haven't quite been properly introduced.) Yet he knows the names of each strangely shaped meal bit & what its for. Sticking to my ways, I know where the sharpening gear & the sticky plasters are.

    The over-the-shoulder spell checker murmurs 'Dualit' & Prudently Vanishes - yes I can field strip & reassemble their toasters. Glorious engineering, real buy it once & love it all life long kit. I still am prepared to make my toast on a pointed stick or nattily twisted length of fencing wire come TEOTWAWKI.
    • thriftwizard
    • By thriftwizard 18th Mar 17, 8:37 AM
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    thriftwizard
    Only 7 sewing machines, DFV? You're not really trying... I've lost count of mine! To be fair, there are 3 people stitching under this roof, and I refurbish & sell on the really old ones, but I haven't been able to do any "good" markets since October so I have a bit of a backlog...

    I'm another who prefers to use good knives & bowls, a hand-whisk, wooden spoons etc. so that I can feel what's going on. I've owned & let go of several Kenwoods, a Magimix and other assorted gadgets, but the only ones I wouldn't let go of are my slow cookers (2 - one for carnivores, one for vegetarians! One a gift, nearly 20 years ago, and one a lucky car-boot find) my breadmaker and my Bamix. We do also own a toaster (yes, a Dualit) and a mini-oven, which are great, but I could perfectly well do without either of those. I don't have a lot of spare worktop to keep devices on, even though it's quite a big kitchen by many standards; it's just carved up by things keeping the roof on like RSJs & slightly random walls, due to having been built many years ago & altered many times.

    I think most of the local house-clearance firms would recognise a fair proportion of the contents of this house...
    Angie

    GC 03/17 - sitting this month out...
    Bulk-buying purse 2017 - £118.53/£420
    Money's just a substitute for time & talent...
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