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  • FIRST POST
    • Kazemiro_L
    • By Kazemiro_L 16th Jun 16, 2:13 PM
    • 5Posts
    • 2Thanks
    Kazemiro_L
    UKPC private car park charge..ANY ADVICE?
    • #1
    • 16th Jun 16, 2:13 PM
    UKPC private car park charge..ANY ADVICE? 16th Jun 16 at 2:13 PM
    Hi everyone,

    I have read the newbie section however i didnt really seem to find an answer, so i started this thread to explain my situation. Hopefully someone can help me with what to do next.

    My girlfriend rented a place that had a UKPC car park. Since day 1 we asked the landlord for a permit, however this never arrived. we never had any issues (parking in our allocated spot for the flat without a permit) for the whole year that she lived there until around 1 month ago. Out of nowhere, every saturday and sunday a fine (for 2 weeks = 4 tickets)!

    I understand that we didnt have a permit, hence the fine, however my girlfriend contested the first two fines. Also, at this time, the car i was driving was a "company car rental", as my company car was still to arrive.

    1 - I have lost fine 3 and 4 - any advice on what to do? i cant contest or do anything as i dont know the ticket number.
    2 - i now have the permit from the landlord
    3 - does the car being a rental change anything?

    All this happened at the time we were moving places. One of the weekends i rented a ford transit to do the move. I parked the van at the allocated spot for the flat, go upstairs to pick stuff, come down and lo and behold! a ticket...its like the guy was waiting behind a bush to fine me!

    2 - as for the rental van, should the fine be contested? (i have this ticket with me)

    I didnt know these parking controls were such a "dirty" job, but after reading this forum, i start to think that the guy WAS REALLY hiding to fine me..

    Any help would be fantastic!

    Right, apologies for the long post and thanks!

    Kazemiro
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Jun 16, 7:18 PM
    • 40,587 Posts
    • 52,479 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 16th Jun 16, 7:18 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Jun 16, 7:18 PM
    1 - I have lost fine 3 and 4 - any advice on what to do? i cant contest or do anything as i dont know the ticket number.
    You are saying ALL these PCNS were issued to vehicles which you are NOT the keeper of? If so you MUST NOT sit on your hands.

    Do you know what I would do?!

    I would use 141 to WITHHOLD your number* and phone up UKPC and tell them you are trying to PAY (yes, pretend you are trying to pay... but DO NOT answer if they ask 'are you the driver?'). Only mention the vehicle registration and tell them you have one PCN in front of you but there were two more and their online page won't show you the other 2 PCN references that you need, in order to pay each one. Please could they give you the other two PCN numbers?

    If one of the three was appealed by your gf you can say so but be adamant that you are wanting to 'sort this out' and need to know all 3 PCNs to 'deal with it'.

    If they say 'oh you can pay over the phone now' tell them you are ringing from work and do not have your card with you but 'plan to pay online tonight'. Repeat again that you'd like the PCN numbers please because the only one you have is the one your gf appealed which is: xxxxxxxxxxx (make sure you do not accidentally read out the OTHER one re the rental van - do not even have that one in your hand!! DO NOT MENTION THAT ONE).

    Rehearse this now. Get it right and be ready to deflect questions about who hired or drove or parked nor whether there was a permit displayed. DO NOT mention the permit. Say you don't know if they ask you anything but 'want to sort this out online tonight'. Don't forget 141 first!

    The point is to get them to read out the PCN numbers and you must note them carefully and test them on the UKPC page to see if they work with that VRN, to show you the payment page or the appeals page. Then thank them and put the phone down.

    Obviously YOU DO NOT PAY. You then appeal those two online.


    3 - does the car being a rental change anything?
    YES - I assume that's either PCN 3 or 4? You MUST act quickly to appeal it! See below.


    All
    this happened at the time we were moving places. One of the weekends i rented a ford transit to do the move. I parked the van at the allocated spot for the flat, go upstairs to pick stuff, come down and lo and behold! a ticket...its like the guy was waiting behind a bush to fine me!
    He probably was. Not joking, it's what they do. It's how they make money.

    2 - as for the rental van, should the fine be contested? (i have this ticket with me)
    Yes, online and very quickly if it's nearly 4 weeks old! Otherwise UKPC will ask the DVLA and pay £2.50 for the data of the owner/keeper (the van Rental Firm and the car lease hire firm) and they might well pay UKPC then charge your credit card for a huge amount with added 'admin fee'.

    See the NEWBIES thread at the top of this sub-forum for the appeal wording. Call yourself the 'hirer' and change the word 'keeper' to 'hirer' in the wording of the template appeal (blue writing one for BPA members).

    DO NOT SAY WHO WAS DRIVING.

    however my girlfriend contested the first two fines.
    So, was she driving and was she the named person who signed those rental forms? Or were you?

    Why did SHE appeal then? Did she name the driver? Has she got a reply yet?




    *To withhold your number on individual calls, just dial 141 before the telephone number you want to call.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 16-06-2016 at 7:26 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Kazemiro_L
    • By Kazemiro_L 1st Jul 16, 10:37 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Kazemiro_L
    • #3
    • 1st Jul 16, 10:37 PM
    2nd Stage!
    • #3
    • 1st Jul 16, 10:37 PM
    Dear Coupon_mad, 1st of all let me thank you for the super detailed and informative reply to my post.
    This wasn't a clear case and you still went through the trouble of reading and replying to my post in such detail - super appreciated!

    So. in the meantime i was able to obtain the numbers for the 2 fines i "lost". I appealed all, as mentioned in the newbie section, in the blue Letters.
    on the 29June (2days ago) i received the below:

    "Thank you for your recent correspondence in relation to the above Parking Charge.
    In order to make a final decision regarding your appeal, please can you provide the driver's full name and address to our Appeals Department within 21 days of the date of this letter.
    The contract that UKPC has with the owner or occupier of the land (which authorises UKPC to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of Parking Charges in respect of parking of the vehicle on the land) contains a confidentiality clause and as such we are not in a position to provide the contract to you.
    As a member of the Approved Operator Scheme, UKPC are audited by the British Parking Association to ensure that we have all relevant contracts in place. UKPC will provide the court with a copy of this in full if they require it, or can provide a written statement to this effect from those party to the contract. We are also more than happy to provide confirmation to the independent assessors that we are authorised to manage parking at this site. We can confirm that parking management at this site has been contracted to UK Parking Control Ltd. Failure to provide this information will give us no alternative other than to make our final decision based on the previous information received, at this stage a POPLA verification code will be provided. Further correspondence can be sent to our postal address below or on our website at ukpcappeals. Please can you ensure that your parking charge details are attached when sending further correspondence.
    The Parking Charge has been on hold whilst under appeal and may be settled in full at the reduced rate of £60.
    PLEASE DO NOT IGNORE THIS LETTER. UKPC REGULARLY TAKES MOTORISTS TO COURT WHO IGNORE
    THEIR PARKING CHARGES. PLEASE SEE... legalities FOR FURTHER INFORMATION.
    Yours faithfully,
    Appeals Department
    UK Parking Control Limited"

    Now, do you have any idea if this is good or bad? my impression is that if you sift through all noise, you end up with:

    "Failure to provide this information will give us no alternative other than to make our final decision based on the previous information received, at this stage a POPLA verification code will be provided."

    Can you please let me know on how to go from here, that'd awesome to a whole different level

    Thanks for all your help!!
    Kazemiro
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 1st Jul 16, 11:11 PM
    • 4,150 Posts
    • 4,773 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #4
    • 1st Jul 16, 11:11 PM
    • #4
    • 1st Jul 16, 11:11 PM
    "The contract that UKPC has with the owner or occupier of the land (which authorises UKPC to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of Parking Charges in respect of parking of the vehicle on the land) contains a confidentiality clause and as such we are not in a position to provide the contract to you."

    But they are happy to provide the contract if you appeal to POPLA ?

    What part of the confidentiality allows them to show anyone they select. ????

    Asking for the driver is the latest wheeze from this cowboys.
    Sorry UKPC don't you read the threads about you on this forum ?
    THAT IS A NO GO AREA ..... BUT, you know that already

    Regarding a "purported contract", as the Parking Prankster clearly states here ...
    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=ukpc

    Scroll down to this:

    Prankster Note

    UK Parking Control are well known for issuing tickets on land which they later fail to prove they have authority for. Large numbers of POPLA appeals are won because UK PC fail to prove they had authority to issue tickets.


    NO DRIVER HERE ...... IT'S THE KEEPER ..... NO PHONE CALLS TO UKPC ...... WAIT FOR THE POPLA CODE

    If and only if there is a confidentiality clause then UKPC will break their so called contract with the landowner

    Yes UKPC take people to court but remember UKPC also lose in court

    MORE READING:-
    http://www.gethampshire.co.uk/news/local-news/driver-successfully-appeals-unauthorised-100-9318812

    UKPC are really a sad bunch of cowboys
    Last edited by beamerguy; 01-07-2016 at 11:32 PM.
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 1st Jul 16, 11:20 PM
    • 40,587 Posts
    • 52,479 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #5
    • 1st Jul 16, 11:20 PM
    • #5
    • 1st Jul 16, 11:20 PM
    Now, do you have any idea if this is good or bad? my impression is that if you sift through all noise, you end up with:

    "Failure to provide this information will give us no alternative other than to make our final decision based on the previous information received, at this stage a POPLA verification code will be provided."
    It's neither good nor bad. UKPC always send that letter!

    Ignore it.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Kazemiro_L
    • By Kazemiro_L 29th Sep 16, 4:44 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Kazemiro_L
    • #6
    • 29th Sep 16, 4:44 PM
    • #6
    • 29th Sep 16, 4:44 PM
    Hi everyone!

    so...the saga continues!

    I have now received a letter saying the charge is now 100 pouds.

    Do you have any advice?

    And a question: if i just pay the 100£ would they just stop?

    Once again, thanks for all your help in this case!

    Kazemiro
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 29th Sep 16, 4:51 PM
    • 40,587 Posts
    • 52,479 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #7
    • 29th Sep 16, 4:51 PM
    • #7
    • 29th Sep 16, 4:51 PM
    Why are you thinking of paying it this early, when you haven't even tried POPLA yet and if you lose at POPLA you would be re-offered the £100 anyway?

    Why pay UKPC at all?! Nasty firm, found doctoring evidence last year.

    If the letter is a Notice to Keeper then ignore it and wait. As long as you did appeal then you are due a POPLA code.

    If the letter is a 'rejection of the appeal' (pretty obvious from the wording) then you have your POPLA code and should be searching 'UKPC POPLA' for recent good examples to copy from.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Kazemiro_L
    • By Kazemiro_L 2nd Oct 16, 11:27 AM
    • 5 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Kazemiro_L
    • #8
    • 2nd Oct 16, 11:27 AM
    • #8
    • 2nd Oct 16, 11:27 AM
    Hi @Coupon_mad,

    I just wanted to get this over and done with tbh...

    But from what you said, i DID appeal (back in June).
    I have also checked and the letter i received this week does mention RE: Notice to hirer.

    I haven't received any POPLA code.
    So best to wait, i guess.

    Also, the doctoring evidence part you mentioned kinda made me not want to pay them...

    As usual, thank you for the advice!!
    Cheers
    Kazemiro
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 2nd Oct 16, 7:26 PM
    • 40,587 Posts
    • 52,479 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 2nd Oct 16, 7:26 PM
    • #9
    • 2nd Oct 16, 7:26 PM
    It seems to me that UKPC acknowledged your appeal, begged to be told who was driving and then when you did not reply I think they've posted a Notice to Keeper in August to the lease/company, having got their data (pretty late) from the DVLA.

    You said:
    Also, at this time, the car i was driving was a "company car rental", as my company car was still to arrive.
    So I think the company has named the hirer, hence you now have a Notice to Hirer and you WILL no need to re-send an appeal from the hirer (you?). Never mind any previous appeal, do not refer to it.

    DO NOT WAIT. THIS IS YOUR ONLY CHANCE TO APPEAL AS HIRER.

    Submit this appeal to UKPC online (based on one written by Edna Basher here) and call yourself the HIRER (DO NOT CHOOSE DRIVER!!):




    Parking Charge Notice xxxxxx: Vehicle Registration [xxxxx]

    I refer to this Parking Charge Notice (“PCN”) issued as a 'Notice to Hirer'. I confirm that as the hirer of this company vehicle, I was its keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definition under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“POFA”) and I write to formally challenge the validity of this PCN. As such, you cannot now revert to the company owner and you must cease processing the data you obtained from the DVLA for that party. They cannot be pursued, since they transferred liability to me, the hirer.

    You will no doubt be familiar with the strict requirements of Schedule 4 of POFA to be followed in order for a parking operator to be able to invoke 'hirer' liability for a Parking Charge. There are a number of reasons why UKPC's Notice to Hirer did not comply with POFA; in order that you may understand why, I suggest that you carefully study the details of Paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4 in particular.

    Given that UKPC has forfeited its right to keeper/hirer liability, please confirm that you will now cancel this charge. Or you must reject this appeal and send me a POPLA code.

    Thank you for your cooperation and I look forward to receiving your response within the relevant timescales specified under the British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Kazemiro_L
    • By Kazemiro_L 15th Oct 16, 7:19 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Kazemiro_L
    Hey Coupon_Mad!

    so just after the "final notice" letter arrived, they finally gave in and provided me with a POPLA code.

    I will now appeal to POPLA.

    I have started having a look and their online process seems to be fairly straightforward.

    My only "meh" is that this was a rental van, and as such i dont have a permit for it to be parked there.I do have the permit to park there, just for my car.

    I will gather as much as i can and appeal this week (will be away with work)....i'll let you guys know how it went!

    i cant thank you enough for all your help with this during all these months!!

    thanks a lot!
    Kazemiro
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 15th Oct 16, 7:29 PM
    • 36,475 Posts
    • 73,315 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Forget the permit. That won't feature in your PoPLA appeal.

    Start by looking at the most recent successful appeals from the POPLA Decisions thread and pick out the best bits.
    Compare the notice to hirer with the POFA and point out which bits thay have got wrong.
    Your appeal points will include, not the landowner, no standing to issue charges (no contract with the landowner to do so) inadequate signage (UKPCs signs are always rubbish), and as already mentioned, non POFA complaint NTK/NTH.

    Query the validity of any photographs demanding that UKPC prove they haven't been doctored like they were caught doing last year.

    Put your redacted draft up here for checking before you send it/them off.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 15-10-2016 at 7:31 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Oct 16, 9:33 PM
    • 40,587 Posts
    • 52,479 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Hey Coupon_Mad!

    so just after the "final notice" letter arrived, they finally gave in and provided me with a POPLA code.

    I will now appeal to POPLA.

    I have started having a look and their online process seems to be fairly straightforward.

    My only "meh" is that this was a rental van...
    Originally posted by Kazemiro_L
    But that's why you will win at POPLA, because it was hired! You appear to have misunderstood the importance of you NOT getting the hire paperwork with the PCN. Same advice as here:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=71459283#post71459283

    The POPLA appeal wording templates are here to be copied, use them. Show us your draft.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

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