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  • FIRST POST
    • Pennylane
    • By Pennylane 7th Jun 16, 8:36 AM
    • 1,995Posts
    • 5,451Thanks
    Pennylane
    WASPI Campaign .... State Pensions
    • #1
    • 7th Jun 16, 8:36 AM
    WASPI Campaign .... State Pensions 7th Jun 16 at 8:36 AM
    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-waspi-campaigners-right-complain-we-should-all-glad-steve-bee

    A good article.
Page 51
    • colsten
    • By colsten 8th Jul 17, 1:13 PM
    • 8,670 Posts
    • 7,315 Thanks
    colsten
    In hindsight, it's a good job Corbyn didn't include 'State pensions for all from age 60' as part of his manifesto - the graspi votes might just have been enough to tip him into (God help us!) No 10.
    Originally posted by Silvertabby
    The Labour manifesto contains these strange sentences: "The pension age is due to rise to 66 by the end of 2020. Labour rejects the Conservatives’ proposal to increase the state pension age even further." Obviously Labour are oblivious to the facts that
    1. legislation was introduced under a Labour Government in 2007 to increase the SPA to 68

    2. over and beyond the currently existing legislation, there is presently no proposal by the Tories for further increases. For a would-be Government to refer to legislation as a proposal is really rather worrying.
    • p00hsticks
    • By p00hsticks 8th Jul 17, 1:47 PM
    • 5,529 Posts
    • 5,071 Thanks
    p00hsticks
    Or the MPs are quite clever. They know there is not even the slimmest chance of any changes happening but they have done their bit and put their names down to try and help those poor unfortunate women. Possible votes gained next time round.
    Originally posted by molerat
    But they'll lose votes as well. I tend to vote Labour but felt so strongly about this issue that I didn't vote for them this time round purely because of what I feel is their misguided and delusional support for WASPI.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 8th Jul 17, 2:19 PM
    • 17,350 Posts
    • 44,191 Thanks
    Pollycat
    Does no-one else find it really worrying that we have elected several MPs gullible enough to fall for this. Or is it even more worryingly the case that they know the basis of the WASPI campaign is not true and still decide to back it? Or do they truly believe the lies they are telling.
    Originally posted by badmemory
    I found it very worrying when I listened to the (I think) first debate headed by Mhairi Black back in January 2016.

    Some of the things MPs were saying about what their constituents had told them made me so mad that I was shouting at the TV and frantically looking for a foam brick to throw.

    I'm a late 1953 woman and know exactly what my post-1995 state pension age was and what it is now and how many months have been added because of the 2011 Act.

    Either the women had been lying to their MPs (being kind, perhaps they were confused ) or the MPs had misunderstood what their constituents had told them.

    Here's 2 of my posts going back to 2016:

    I watched most of the debate (whilst doing other stuff like cooking) and found it quite interesting.

    One snippet stood out when a MP said one of her constituents had told her that she was originally due to get het state pension at age 62 + some months but woudn't now get it until she was 65.

    That's a blatent lie.
    I know because I - born Oct 1953 - was originally scheduled to reach SPA in April 2017 (aged 63 years and 6 months) and as a result of the 2011 changes my SPA will be July 2018 when I'm aged 64 and 9 months.

    So anybody who was - as a result of the 1995 changes - expected to reach SPA before age 63 will definitely get their pension before age 65.

    I shouted at the TV and brandished my wooden spoon at such misinformation/lies.
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    I listened to the first parliamentary debate some months ago.

    Some of the 'cases' that MPs stood up and told about were clearly lies.
    I know my age and I know my original state pension age and revised pension age.
    Some constituents had clearly misrepresented their positions to their MP.

    I made this same point at the time of the debate - either on this thread or one of the others alos running.

    To have to resort to lies to make your position worse than it actually is shows those women in a very poor light.
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    • Mortgagefreeman
    • By Mortgagefreeman 8th Jul 17, 6:53 PM
    • 400 Posts
    • 898 Thanks
    Mortgagefreeman
    Originally posted by jamesd
    If the GRASPI's haven't yet got the message from the 'general public'.....

    https://mobile.twitter.com/MoneySavingExp/status/883383375087550464

    .........they have now!
    Remoaners. Embrace your inner Brexit and become a 're-leaver'
    • colsten
    • By colsten 8th Jul 17, 8:26 PM
    • 8,670 Posts
    • 7,315 Thanks
    colsten

    Either the women had been lying to their MPs (being kind, perhaps they were confused ) or the MPs had misunderstood what their constituents had told them.
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    It seems that lies and/or confusion are a hallmark of the entire campaign. Both, the women and their supportive MPs do the same. They come up with some unverified/unverifiable claim, put it out there as a fact, then repeat it ad nauseam and probably end up believing their stories themselves.

    SNP MPs, for instance, keep peddling the lie that for £8 billion over five years we could return to the original timetable set out in the Pensions Act 1995, and that the NI Fund is predicted to have a £30bn surplus by end of 2017-18. I believe two of the 3 SNPs who made those claims last Wednesday sit on the Works & Pensions Select Committee, and have made those false claims again and again for several months - even though they were told in Parliament that their numbers are wrong.

    I have no idea where they got the £30bn surplus idea from, as it's not in any of the NI Fund accounts or in the most recent Government Actuary Uprating report, laid before Parliament earlier this year. The £8bn is from a study the SNP had commissioned themselves. The study report is a bit wanting in its professionalism but it does make very clear that £8bn would only address those worst affected by the 2011 Act. That's less than 20% of all those affected by it, and WASPI have distanced themselves from the SNP proposal several months ago.

    None of this stops the SNP from repeating the lies, and quite a few WASPI take them as gospel now.
    • Mortgagefreeman
    • By Mortgagefreeman 9th Jul 17, 1:43 PM
    • 400 Posts
    • 898 Thanks
    Mortgagefreeman
    Originally posted by jamesd
    Hardly getting the sympathy vote, is she?

    I can now see why the Editorial Team didn't bother with a Forum thread!
    Remoaners. Embrace your inner Brexit and become a 're-leaver'
    • Sipowicz
    • By Sipowicz 9th Jul 17, 2:29 PM
    • 45 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Sipowicz
    Where's the WASPI repellent Bat spray when you need it!
    • Mortgagefreeman
    • By Mortgagefreeman 9th Jul 17, 3:13 PM
    • 400 Posts
    • 898 Thanks
    Mortgagefreeman
    Where's the WASPI repellent OLD Bat spray when you need it!
    Originally posted by Sipowicz
    Fixed that for you.
    Remoaners. Embrace your inner Brexit and become a 're-leaver'
    • colsten
    • By colsten 9th Jul 17, 9:52 PM
    • 8,670 Posts
    • 7,315 Thanks
    colsten
    Where's the WASPI repellent Bat spray when you need it!
    Originally posted by Sipowicz
    Must be under development. Can you use Waspinator for now?
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 10th Jul 17, 11:12 AM
    • 2,596 Posts
    • 3,695 Thanks
    Malthusian
    It seems that lies and/or confusion are a hallmark of the entire campaign. Both, the women and their supportive MPs do the same. They come up with some unverified/unverifiable claim, put it out there as a fact, then repeat it ad nauseam and probably end up believing their stories themselves.
    Originally posted by colsten
    If you're going to tell a lie, tell a big one, and tell it repeatedly. (Joseph Goebbels, inter alia multa.)

    Corbyn's Labour believe that they are in the vanguard of a transition to a post-capitalist economy - which in practical terms means they can promise whatever they like. £60 billion, £8 billion, two thousand, they're all just numbers, and who's to say that 2 + 2 can't equal 5. In the post-capitalist economy everyone will get their fair share, regardless of age, gender or employment status; all this talk of State Pensions and National Insurance and deficits is pre-post-capitalist thinking. In the meantime we can give WASPI £60 billion without any cuts or tax rises simply by printing it, and this won't devalue the currency because look over there, a squirrel.

    They don't care whether it gets them votes or not, if they cared about votes they wouldn't have elected Corbyn in the first place. The socialist revolution is inevitable and there was no need for people to vote for it in Russia, Poland or Hungary.
    • Pennylane
    • By Pennylane 10th Aug 17, 10:09 PM
    • 1,995 Posts
    • 5,451 Thanks
    Pennylane
    Had a letter from my MP regarding WASPI debate in Parliament on 5 July.

    He says that the debate was completely unprecedented as on this occasion the room was completely full and officials had to bring in extra chairs with many MPs having to stand. He says he has never witnessed this before in all his time in Parliament.

    He says the WASPI campaign is gathering momentum and he has signed the cross party early day motion along with 183 other MPs.
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 10th Aug 17, 10:39 PM
    • 1,394 Posts
    • 1,634 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    Had a letter from my MP regarding WASPI debate in Parliament on 5 July.

    He says that the debate was completely unprecedented as on this occasion the room was completely full and officials had to bring in extra chairs with many MPs having to stand. He says he has never witnessed this before in all his time in Parliament.

    He says the WASPI campaign is gathering momentum and he has signed the cross party early day motion along with 183 other MPs. Posted by Pennylane
    Do calm down dear - nothing will come of this.

    Do you really think Parliament will agree to the WASPI demand that women born on or before 31 December 1959 will be paid their (backdated) State pensions from age 60, but women (and men) born from just one day later - 1 January 1960 - would have to wait until they are 66 plus?

    The equalisation of State pension age programme may not be perfect, but at least it didn't factor in a 6 year cliff edge!
    • Mortgagefreeman
    • By Mortgagefreeman 11th Aug 17, 8:28 AM
    • 400 Posts
    • 898 Thanks
    Mortgagefreeman
    Had a letter from my MP regarding WASPI debate in Parliament on 5 July.

    He says that the debate was completely unprecedented as on this occasion the room was completely full and officials had to bring in extra chairs with many MPs having to stand. He says he has never witnessed this before in all his time in Parliament.

    He says the WASPI campaign is gathering momentum and he has signed the cross party early day motion along with 183 other MPs.
    Originally posted by Pennylane
    The EDM's about as useful as the 'WASPI pledge'

    After Mhairi Black, and the SNP, saying they'd give WASPI their full support, they've now decided not to. No financial assistance from them, as there's more important things to finance.

    https://www.snp.org/scottish_taxpayers_shouldn_t_have_to_pay_twice_to_ fix_westminster_s_mess

    So the Con's say NO. Labour say YES, but only on a 'cost neutral basis' so that's another NO, and the SNP, that'll be a three NO's
    Remoaners. Embrace your inner Brexit and become a 're-leaver'
    • bmm78
    • By bmm78 11th Aug 17, 10:41 AM
    • 420 Posts
    • 562 Thanks
    bmm78
    If you'll pardon the pun, at what point does the penny drop with WASPI supporters that the "supportive" MPs are interested far more in political kudos gained from paying lip service to the campaign, than they are in achieving a workable solution to the issue?

    I suppose if the SNP debacle hasn't done that, the answer in many cases is probably "never".
    I work for a financial services intermediary specialising in the at-retirement market. I am not a financial adviser, and any comments represent my opinion only and should not be construed as advice or a recommendation
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 11th Aug 17, 11:26 AM
    • 17,350 Posts
    • 44,191 Thanks
    Pollycat
    If you'll pardon the pun, at what point does the penny drop with WASPI supporters that the "supportive" MPs are interested far more in political kudos gained from paying lip service to the campaign, than they are in achieving a workable solution to the issue?

    I suppose if the SNP debacle hasn't done that, the answer in many cases is probably "never".
    Originally posted by bmm78
    Yes.

    Mhairi Black got her face known back in January 2016 when she supported WASPI.

    Pennylane - is she still on your side?
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 11th Aug 17, 11:55 AM
    • 2,596 Posts
    • 3,695 Thanks
    Malthusian
    If you'll pardon the pun, at what point does the penny drop with WASPI supporters that the "supportive" MPs are interested far more in political kudos gained from paying lip service to the campaign, than they are in achieving a workable solution to the issue?
    Originally posted by bmm78
    The WASPI leadership already knows, but the MPs' grandstanding keeps the donations flowing in from their supporters. It dupes them into thinking progress is being made towards them getting their thirty grand. So they keep donating - even though some of them can't really afford it (and WASPI consciously refuse to help them by pointing them towards the existing benefits they can claim) - so that the leadership can continue to swan around in first class and appear on TV.

    It's classic advance fee fraud tactics. The big payoff is just around the corner, all we need is one more payment and then you'll have your share of the Nigerian prince's money.

    It is also a classic case of misallocation of loyalty. WASPI's supporters imagine that it is they and WASPI leadership together against the MPs. In fact it is WASPI leadership and the MPs together against WASPI's supporters. From this alliance the MPs get publicity, and WASPI leadership get donations to spend on champagne. WASPI's members get nothing but their wallets drained.
    • Andy L
    • By Andy L 11th Aug 17, 1:04 PM
    • 8,411 Posts
    • 6,705 Thanks
    Andy L
    Had a letter from my MP regarding WASPI debate in Parliament on 5 July.

    He says that the debate was completely unprecedented as on this occasion the room was completely full and officials had to bring in extra chairs with many MPs having to stand. He says he has never witnessed this before in all his time in Parliament.
    Originally posted by Pennylane

    He can't have been there very long then. Since there are about 440 seats for 650 MPs then (even allowing for Sinn Fien never turniing up) its frequently standing room only in the chamber
    • colsten
    • By colsten 11th Aug 17, 6:00 PM
    • 8,670 Posts
    • 7,315 Thanks
    colsten
    He can't have been there very long then. Since there are about 440 seats for 650 MPs then (even allowing for Sinn Fien never turniing up) its frequently standing room only in the chamber
    Originally posted by Andy L
    You can add that the July 5 debate was in Westminster Hall, which has significantly less capacity than the House Of Commons Chamber. I would say there's room for about 100 MPs max. The standing room in this particular debate was mainly taken up by some WASPI campaigners.


    Westminster Hall debates are not of the same importance as debates in the main chamber. For example, no votes can take place in Westminster Hall debates, meaning that no decision can be taken.
    Last edited by colsten; 11-08-2017 at 6:02 PM.
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