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    • Pennylane
    • By Pennylane 7th Jun 16, 8:36 AM
    • 1,994Posts
    • 5,450Thanks
    Pennylane
    WASPI Campaign .... State Pensions
    • #1
    • 7th Jun 16, 8:36 AM
    WASPI Campaign .... State Pensions 7th Jun 16 at 8:36 AM
    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-waspi-campaigners-right-complain-we-should-all-glad-steve-bee

    A good article.
Page 51
    • colsten
    • By colsten 8th Jul 17, 1:13 PM
    • 8,601 Posts
    • 7,220 Thanks
    colsten
    In hindsight, it's a good job Corbyn didn't include 'State pensions for all from age 60' as part of his manifesto - the graspi votes might just have been enough to tip him into (God help us!) No 10.
    Originally posted by Silvertabby
    The Labour manifesto contains these strange sentences: "The pension age is due to rise to 66 by the end of 2020. Labour rejects the Conservatives’ proposal to increase the state pension age even further." Obviously Labour are oblivious to the facts that
    1. legislation was introduced under a Labour Government in 2007 to increase the SPA to 68

    2. over and beyond the currently existing legislation, there is presently no proposal by the Tories for further increases. For a would-be Government to refer to legislation as a proposal is really rather worrying.
    • p00hsticks
    • By p00hsticks 8th Jul 17, 1:47 PM
    • 5,482 Posts
    • 5,024 Thanks
    p00hsticks
    Or the MPs are quite clever. They know there is not even the slimmest chance of any changes happening but they have done their bit and put their names down to try and help those poor unfortunate women. Possible votes gained next time round.
    Originally posted by molerat
    But they'll lose votes as well. I tend to vote Labour but felt so strongly about this issue that I didn't vote for them this time round purely because of what I feel is their misguided and delusional support for WASPI.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 8th Jul 17, 2:19 PM
    • 17,034 Posts
    • 42,999 Thanks
    Pollycat
    Does no-one else find it really worrying that we have elected several MPs gullible enough to fall for this. Or is it even more worryingly the case that they know the basis of the WASPI campaign is not true and still decide to back it? Or do they truly believe the lies they are telling.
    Originally posted by badmemory
    I found it very worrying when I listened to the (I think) first debate headed by Mhairi Black back in January 2016.

    Some of the things MPs were saying about what their constituents had told them made me so mad that I was shouting at the TV and frantically looking for a foam brick to throw.

    I'm a late 1953 woman and know exactly what my post-1995 state pension age was and what it is now and how many months have been added because of the 2011 Act.

    Either the women had been lying to their MPs (being kind, perhaps they were confused ) or the MPs had misunderstood what their constituents had told them.

    Here's 2 of my posts going back to 2016:

    I watched most of the debate (whilst doing other stuff like cooking) and found it quite interesting.

    One snippet stood out when a MP said one of her constituents had told her that she was originally due to get het state pension at age 62 + some months but woudn't now get it until she was 65.

    That's a blatent lie.
    I know because I - born Oct 1953 - was originally scheduled to reach SPA in April 2017 (aged 63 years and 6 months) and as a result of the 2011 changes my SPA will be July 2018 when I'm aged 64 and 9 months.

    So anybody who was - as a result of the 1995 changes - expected to reach SPA before age 63 will definitely get their pension before age 65.

    I shouted at the TV and brandished my wooden spoon at such misinformation/lies.
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    I listened to the first parliamentary debate some months ago.

    Some of the 'cases' that MPs stood up and told about were clearly lies.
    I know my age and I know my original state pension age and revised pension age.
    Some constituents had clearly misrepresented their positions to their MP.

    I made this same point at the time of the debate - either on this thread or one of the others alos running.

    To have to resort to lies to make your position worse than it actually is shows those women in a very poor light.
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    • Mortgagefreeman
    • By Mortgagefreeman 8th Jul 17, 6:53 PM
    • 375 Posts
    • 832 Thanks
    Mortgagefreeman
    Originally posted by jamesd
    If the GRASPI's haven't yet got the message from the 'general public'.....

    https://mobile.twitter.com/MoneySavingExp/status/883383375087550464

    .........they have now!
    Remoaners. Embrace your inner Brexit and become a 're-leaver'
    • colsten
    • By colsten 8th Jul 17, 8:26 PM
    • 8,601 Posts
    • 7,220 Thanks
    colsten

    Either the women had been lying to their MPs (being kind, perhaps they were confused ) or the MPs had misunderstood what their constituents had told them.
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    It seems that lies and/or confusion are a hallmark of the entire campaign. Both, the women and their supportive MPs do the same. They come up with some unverified/unverifiable claim, put it out there as a fact, then repeat it ad nauseam and probably end up believing their stories themselves.

    SNP MPs, for instance, keep peddling the lie that for £8 billion over five years we could return to the original timetable set out in the Pensions Act 1995, and that the NI Fund is predicted to have a £30bn surplus by end of 2017-18. I believe two of the 3 SNPs who made those claims last Wednesday sit on the Works & Pensions Select Committee, and have made those false claims again and again for several months - even though they were told in Parliament that their numbers are wrong.

    I have no idea where they got the £30bn surplus idea from, as it's not in any of the NI Fund accounts or in the most recent Government Actuary Uprating report, laid before Parliament earlier this year. The £8bn is from a study the SNP had commissioned themselves. The study report is a bit wanting in its professionalism but it does make very clear that £8bn would only address those worst affected by the 2011 Act. That's less than 20% of all those affected by it, and WASPI have distanced themselves from the SNP proposal several months ago.

    None of this stops the SNP from repeating the lies, and quite a few WASPI take them as gospel now.
    • Mortgagefreeman
    • By Mortgagefreeman 9th Jul 17, 1:43 PM
    • 375 Posts
    • 832 Thanks
    Mortgagefreeman
    Originally posted by jamesd
    Hardly getting the sympathy vote, is she?

    I can now see why the Editorial Team didn't bother with a Forum thread!
    Remoaners. Embrace your inner Brexit and become a 're-leaver'
    • Sipowicz
    • By Sipowicz 9th Jul 17, 2:29 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    Sipowicz
    Where's the WASPI repellent Bat spray when you need it!
    • Mortgagefreeman
    • By Mortgagefreeman 9th Jul 17, 3:13 PM
    • 375 Posts
    • 832 Thanks
    Mortgagefreeman
    Where's the WASPI repellent OLD Bat spray when you need it!
    Originally posted by Sipowicz
    Fixed that for you.
    Remoaners. Embrace your inner Brexit and become a 're-leaver'
    • colsten
    • By colsten 9th Jul 17, 9:52 PM
    • 8,601 Posts
    • 7,220 Thanks
    colsten
    Where's the WASPI repellent Bat spray when you need it!
    Originally posted by Sipowicz
    Must be under development. Can you use Waspinator for now?
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 10th Jul 17, 11:12 AM
    • 2,404 Posts
    • 3,340 Thanks
    Malthusian
    It seems that lies and/or confusion are a hallmark of the entire campaign. Both, the women and their supportive MPs do the same. They come up with some unverified/unverifiable claim, put it out there as a fact, then repeat it ad nauseam and probably end up believing their stories themselves.
    Originally posted by colsten
    If you're going to tell a lie, tell a big one, and tell it repeatedly. (Joseph Goebbels, inter alia multa.)

    Corbyn's Labour believe that they are in the vanguard of a transition to a post-capitalist economy - which in practical terms means they can promise whatever they like. £60 billion, £8 billion, two thousand, they're all just numbers, and who's to say that 2 + 2 can't equal 5. In the post-capitalist economy everyone will get their fair share, regardless of age, gender or employment status; all this talk of State Pensions and National Insurance and deficits is pre-post-capitalist thinking. In the meantime we can give WASPI £60 billion without any cuts or tax rises simply by printing it, and this won't devalue the currency because look over there, a squirrel.

    They don't care whether it gets them votes or not, if they cared about votes they wouldn't have elected Corbyn in the first place. The socialist revolution is inevitable and there was no need for people to vote for it in Russia, Poland or Hungary.
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