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  • FIRST POST
    • Pennylane
    • By Pennylane 7th Jun 16, 8:36 AM
    • 1,985Posts
    • 5,435Thanks
    Pennylane
    WASPI Campaign .... State Pensions
    • #1
    • 7th Jun 16, 8:36 AM
    WASPI Campaign .... State Pensions 7th Jun 16 at 8:36 AM
    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-waspi-campaigners-right-complain-we-should-all-glad-steve-bee

    A good article.
Page 38
    • atush
    • By atush 6th Oct 16, 9:53 PM
    • 15,284 Posts
    • 9,160 Thanks
    atush
    As far as I can see, they are just clinging to the fact that Government didn't send them any personal letters in 1995 to notify them of the increase.
    And if they had, what % would have read them? Less than 20% i would have thought.

    I am affected, I didnt get a letter, but i did know about it. Because, i watch the news, and i read newspapers.
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 7th Oct 16, 12:17 AM
    • 224 Posts
    • 194 Thanks
    badmemory
    I just wish they would stop embarrassing themselves. They were either totally lacking in interest in what was going on or they are lying about it. Both causes for their embarrassment. I even remember a discussion in a hairdressers where the hairdresser put a client right on her retirement date.
    • GibbsRule No3
    • By GibbsRule No3 11th Oct 16, 9:27 AM
    • 594 Posts
    • 346 Thanks
    GibbsRule No3
    TV this morning Rip Off Britain BBC1
    Just happened to turn the TV on this morning. Not sure if it is anew programme or a repeat. Blurb on my drop down menu does say "new, live edition".
    Paddle No 21
    • molerat
    • By molerat 11th Oct 16, 9:30 AM
    • 15,017 Posts
    • 9,368 Thanks
    molerat
    Watching it now.
    "No way did I know my SP age had changed before 2012"
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk/donations.html
    • Jackieboy
    • By Jackieboy 11th Oct 16, 10:16 AM
    • 251 Posts
    • 396 Thanks
    Jackieboy
    Watching it now.
    "No way did I know my SP age had changed before 2012"
    Originally posted by molerat
    And people say that without a shred of embarrassment!
    • JezR
    • By JezR 11th Oct 16, 3:49 PM
    • 1,433 Posts
    • 1,020 Thanks
    JezR
    There was very little press coverage of the drop in pension age for women in 1940. But there was a war on.

    To pay for that, it was introduced at the same time that women had to pay more national insurance per week than men.
    • Gers
    • By Gers 12th Oct 16, 9:07 AM
    • 4,689 Posts
    • 24,649 Thanks
    Gers
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk

    I offer no comment.
    • woolly_wombat
    • By woolly_wombat 12th Oct 16, 9:27 AM
    • 364 Posts
    • 222 Thanks
    woolly_wombat
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk

    I offer no comment.
    Originally posted by Gers
    Was this the article you meant to link to?:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37620400

    Extract:
    Baroness Altmann told the BBC's Rip Off Britain: Live programme that the government failed in its attempt to communicate many years ago with the women who were affected.

    "It perhaps misled them, or lulled them into a false sense of security, and if they did believe that their state pension age was 60, partly that was because the government led them to believe that," she said.

    The comments are very different from those made when she was the pensions minister when she insisted that letters sent to women informing them of changes to their state pension age were clear.

    She now says she "believed what officials were telling me".

    Mr Webb, who was pensions minister during the coalition government, said: "Given that we now know that the Department for Work and Pensions undertook surveys in the early 2000s which showed a significant minority of women were not aware of the 1995 Act timetable, it is surprising that previous administrations did not act upon that information at that time and take action to improve awareness of the changes."


    It's often revealing to see what former ministers have to say once they are released from the shackles of office!
    • JezR
    • By JezR 12th Oct 16, 9:39 AM
    • 1,433 Posts
    • 1,020 Thanks
    JezR
    I see that both Steve Webb and Ros Altmann have been trying to shift blame from themselves onto their officials for such things as the structure of the 2011 Pension Act etc. Unfortunately for them the deal is as a Minster that you carry the can, not the officials.

    As Jim Hacker said: "In industry if you screw things up you get the boot; in the civil service if you screw things up I get the boot.”

    The surveys in the early 2000s led to the unprompted pension forecasts and advertising campaign in 2004 IIRC.
    Last edited by JezR; 12-10-2016 at 9:42 AM.
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 12th Oct 16, 9:53 AM
    • 1,167 Posts
    • 1,539 Thanks
    Malthusian
    Altmann's pronouncements in government only serve to make her a hypocrite as well as a bandwagon jumper. If she truly believed whatever officials told her in government and then abruptly flipped to believing whatever WASPI2 told her out of government then she is a brainless invertebrate, and I know perfectly well she isn't.

    There is no significant minority. As we've seen in this thread, hairdressers, teachers and housewives all knew the state pension age was going up. A small band of highly media-savvy women are claiming they had no idea. Hmm.
    • jem16
    • By jem16 12th Oct 16, 9:58 AM
    • 18,497 Posts
    • 11,293 Thanks
    jem16
    Was this the article you meant to link to?:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37620400

    Extract:
    Baroness Altmann told the BBC's Rip Off Britain: Live programme that the government failed in its attempt to communicate many years ago with the women who were affected.

    "It perhaps misled them, or lulled them into a false sense of security, and if they did believe that their state pension age was 60, partly that was because the government led them to believe that," she said.
    Originally posted by woolly_wombat


    On the programme she mentioned letters being sent out which didn't say their state pension age was changing. No mention of the fact that enclosed with the letters was a booklet which did explain that the state pension age was rising.

    The comments are very different from those made when she was the pensions minister when she insisted that letters sent to women informing them of changes to their state pension age were clear.

    She now says she "believed what officials were telling me".
    Probably because she had seen the actual letters and booklets herself when they were given to her. Or is she now saying she didn't bother to read them?

    Mr Webb, who was pensions minister during the coalition government, said: "Given that we now know that the Department for Work and Pensions undertook surveys in the early 2000s which showed a significant minority of women were not aware of the 1995 Act timetable, it is surprising that previous administrations did not act upon that information at that time and take action to improve awareness of the changes."
    Steve Webb has also said that MPs were not fully briefed when the 2011 Act was going through Parliament. Yet Hansard records show that all the same questions being asked now we're fully discussed at the time. In fact this was what led to the 6 months concession as amendments were proposed.

    It's often revealing to see what former ministers have to say once they are released from the shackles of office!
    Isn't it just. One wonders what their motives are now?
    • Pennylane
    • By Pennylane 12th Oct 16, 10:35 AM
    • 1,985 Posts
    • 5,435 Thanks
    Pennylane
    Talk about two-faced. can't stand Altmann.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 12th Oct 16, 10:50 AM
    • 85,089 Posts
    • 50,111 Thanks
    dunstonh
    Talk about two-faced. can't stand Altmann.
    Originally posted by Pennylane
    Look at her history. It is full of changing positions to suit herself. So, this should not be a surprise to anyone.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from a Financial Adviser local to you.
    • bmm78
    • By bmm78 12th Oct 16, 10:53 AM
    • 392 Posts
    • 463 Thanks
    bmm78
    Steve Webb has also said that MPs were not fully briefed when the 2011 Act was going through Parliament. Yet Hansard records show that all the same questions being asked now we're fully discussed at the time. In fact this was what led to the 6 months concession as amendments were proposed.
    Originally posted by jem16
    Webb of course was fully aware (as were many MPs) that some women did not know of the 1995 Pensions Act prior to the passing of 2011:

    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmhansrd/cm100309/halltext/100309h0006.htm

    "Although we are talking about what happens post 2020 when we go from 65 to 68, I strongly suspect that our mailbags will start to fill up very soon with letters from women who did not know that the age was going up from 60"


    Altmann is clearly looking to repair the damage to her "consumer champion" reputation, and has probably recognised that Waspi favour can be gained with meaningless platitudes rather than any coherent or consistent logic. See how dozens of MPs made an exhibition of presenting petitions yesterday, while still not coming close to a constructive policy suggestion after 18 months of grandstanding.

    FOI requests show that the government spent £26.5m in 2003/4 promoting awareness of various pension issues including equalisation. This is in addition to announcing the changes on live television and the 17.8m APFs issued unprompted. Beyond that, there was considerable media coverage and communications from occupational schemes to their members. Failing that, anyone could (and should) have requested a state pension forecast. The notion that there was no reason for anyone to do so is confounded by the fact that 11.5m of them were requested since 2000.
    Last edited by bmm78; 12-10-2016 at 11:02 AM.
    I work for a financial services intermediary specialising in the at-retirement market. I am not a financial adviser, and any comments represent my opinion only and should not be construed as advice or a recommendation
    • bmm78
    • By bmm78 12th Oct 16, 11:02 AM
    • 392 Posts
    • 463 Thanks
    bmm78
    Look at her history. It is full of changing positions to suit herself. So, this should not be a surprise to anyone.
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    http://www.adviserlounge.co.uk/2015/04/23/ros-altmann-and-her-critics/

    '"She is also accused of hypocrisy. For years, she campaigned for the open market option for annuity sales and against single-tied deals.

    But when quizzed about Saga Group’s own single-tied deal with Legal & General she defended it. “We are not in the business of shopping around,” she told Money Marketing in 2012.

    Consumer champion Which? hit out at the arrangement and, by her own admission, it could cost savers but she promoted it at Saga anyway.

    Speaking to Investment Sense in 2013, six months after leaving Saga, she said single-tied deals meant “people could still lose significant amounts of money."'



    I work for a financial services intermediary specialising in the at-retirement market. I am not a financial adviser, and any comments represent my opinion only and should not be construed as advice or a recommendation
    • Archi Bald
    • By Archi Bald 12th Oct 16, 4:05 PM
    • 9,263 Posts
    • 7,264 Thanks
    Archi Bald
    They were told once again today that nothing will change. This if from PMQs:

    Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)

    Last night, a huge number of MPs presented in this House WASPI—Women Against State Pension Inequality—petitions from towns up and down the country, so will the Prime Minister now commit to overturning those mistaken arrangements of 2011 and provide justice and transitional arrangements for WASPI women?

    The Prime Minister

    The hon. Lady should know that transitional arrangements are already in place. We did make changes. We committed £1 billion to lessen the impact of the state pension age changes on those who were affected, so that no one would experience a change of more than 18 months. In fact, 81% of women’s state pension ages will increase by no more than 12 months, compared to the previous timetable.

    The Department for Work and Pensions informed people of the change in the state pension age after the changes that were made in 2011. Moreover, in the future women will gain from the new pension arrangements that are being introduced. Women’s pensions are a long-standing issue, but there will be better pension arrangements for them in the future because of the changes that the Government have made.
    Source: https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2016-10-12/debates/9D603E78-5493-424C-99D9-17613E0C4EB8/OralAnswersToQuestions
    • bmm78
    • By bmm78 12th Oct 16, 4:45 PM
    • 392 Posts
    • 463 Thanks
    bmm78
    They were told once again today that nothing will change. This if from PMQs:



    Source: https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2016-10-12/debates/9D603E78-5493-424C-99D9-17613E0C4EB8/OralAnswersToQuestions
    Originally posted by Archi Bald
    Rather careless of McGovern to let slip that like the SNP, Labour are only looking at the 2011 Pensions Act and nothing to do with 1995....

    Needs to take a leaf out of Andy "Future Mayor of Manchester" Burnham's book, who would never let such irrelevances such as "policies" get in the way of a Churchillian speech about fighting for "justice" and "equality".
    I work for a financial services intermediary specialising in the at-retirement market. I am not a financial adviser, and any comments represent my opinion only and should not be construed as advice or a recommendation
  • jamesd
    "
    Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)

    Last night, a huge number of MPs presented in this House WASPI—Women against State Pension Inequality—petitions from towns up and down the country, so will the Prime Minister now commit to overturning those mistaken arrangements of 2011 and provide justice and transitional arrangements for WASPI women?"
    Originally posted by Archi Bald
    I do hope that this government does deliver justice to those women and overturns those mistaken arrangements.

    By removing the inequality of the 10% higher state pension payments that women will on average receive than an otherwise identical man after the effects of the Act. Removing the billion Pounds of transitional help for affected women in the form of an earlier than originally planned state pension age for them that was included would be a good start on that path.

    It's well worth remembering that the WASPI2 are asking for increased gender discrimination in the state pension system regardless of financial need, unlike say the WASPI3.
    • colsten
    • By colsten 12th Oct 16, 9:49 PM
    • 8,139 Posts
    • 6,625 Thanks
    colsten
    It's well worth remembering that the WASPI2 are asking for increased gender discrimination in the state pension system regardless of financial need, unlike say the WASPI3.
    Originally posted by jamesd
    Unless I misunderstand, the WASPI3 aren't exactly concerned about gender or younger cohort discrimination. Literally none of their 10 options talks about anything but their own self-interest. Their number 10 option even is the WASPI2 option.
    • Mortgagefreeman
    • By Mortgagefreeman 13th Oct 16, 6:12 PM
    • 177 Posts
    • 340 Thanks
    Mortgagefreeman
    WASPI to take legal action.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/WASPI_Campaign/status/786599197537558528

    Looks like they're going to try crowdfunding to raise money for the action.
    Project Fear = Project Porkies
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