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  • FIRST POST
    • ABowman
    • By ABowman 2nd Jun 16, 1:12 PM
    • 13Posts
    • 4Thanks
    ABowman
    ES Parking charge - items to include in appeal letter
    • #1
    • 2nd Jun 16, 1:12 PM
    ES Parking charge - items to include in appeal letter 2nd Jun 16 at 1:12 PM
    I have read the forums here and the relevant threads. I am writing my appeal letter as per the template provided. I received an ES parking Charge for 'parking' on the Spinningfields estate.

    I had parked in the NCP car park on the estate and on exiting the car park I paused to check I was ok as I had fallen over in the car park. The engine was running and I was there for a around 1-2 minutes. I saw no signs but I did see a man acting suspiciously behind my car but when I turned to look at what he was doing he stood up and pretended not to see me. I then drove off and thought no more of it.

    My ask is for some help with the letter and the grounds for the appeal, are these acceptable items to include?

    1. The driver reports that a man was seen acting suspiciously behind the car at the time of the photo being taken but pretended not to see the driver. The driver believes that this person took the photo included in the letter.
    2. There are no adequate signs on the street which can be read by drivers.
    3. No period of parking is stated in the letter, there is nothing to suggest that car was parked at all. (incident time is noted as (15:31)
    4. The driver had no need to park in this location and has a receipt for parking in a nearby car park which would have covered the time given if chosen,

    I'm not sure how much to say in the actual appeal - if anything at all?!
    Last edited by ABowman; 02-06-2016 at 1:18 PM.
Page 2
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th Oct 16, 6:45 PM
    • 45,155 Posts
    • 57,822 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Tick NO to mediation!

    This is covered in the NEWBIES thread where it says 'Small Claim?' and the second link under that heading gives bargepole's advice on how to complete this paperwork. We never recommend mediation in these cases.

    Is there anything I need to complete within the N180 to say that I want it to go to court?
    Yep, put a covering letter with it insisting on a hearing at your local court (you will get that).

    To find wording for this - as it happens EVERY time and I'm surprised you haven't seen it when reading other Gladstones claim threads - search this forum and pepipoo for 'straightforward Gladstones':

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=60

    That search finds lots of hits on here and pepipoo, loads of examples of what to say. You could even Google those two words & get results because their template 'let's hear the case on the papers' tactics are that common!
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 10-10-2016 at 6:47 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • ABowman
    • By ABowman 10th Jan 17, 8:50 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    ABowman
    I now have my court date at the end of the month and this must surely be the end of this charade. I would really like some help with a properly worded defence and evidence to submit. One person has advused just state poor signage. Also how do I claim my time back properly. I believe a maximum of 95 pounds. Thank you all so much. If I hadn't found this forum I would have caved in.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Jan 17, 12:54 AM
    • 45,155 Posts
    • 57,822 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    On another thread I replied thus to you:

    Originally Posted by ABowman
    Hi I have my court date at the end of the month and need to submit my defence. Is it possible to share yours and also how you presented the signage? I have a video of the street and photos of the signs but not the size of them.

    You will need to contact the Court Clerks in advance and ask them in what format they need the video, as part of your evidence for this case.

    You are not sending a defence, this stage is:

    - Witness Statement (the facts, referring to any evidence by number)

    - A skeleton argument (you don't have to, but this can be useful to summarise the legal points of defence, like the POFA and case law)

    - The documents you intend to rely on - any photos, video, case law, transcripts, the Beavis 'clear, brief sign' as a comparison, and if you are defending as keeper, you need Schedule 4 (the Judge is unlikely to know all about keeper liability) and Henry Greenslade's words about 'Understanding keeper Liability' from the POPLA annual Report 2015.


    The NEWBIES thread under 'Small Claim?' has examples and advice about this stage. Make sure you keep to your deadline and that your WS and documents go to the Claimant's solicitor (email will do) as well as your local court (a nice, organised paper file in a ring binder with the evidence documents numbered, the type in Times New Roman 1.5 line-spaced with numbered paragraphs and clear headings and the Claim number and both parties named at the top). With the claim number and your name as defendant also on the front of the file to avid it being mislaid.

    And at the hearing you take an extra copy of everything with you in case the Judge hasn't got it to hand.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • ABowman
    • By ABowman 11th Jan 17, 7:27 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    ABowman
    This is a draft of my witness statement. I have the photos also and attachments. Would anyone be able to comment. I want to get this sent to them. Cheers as ever for all your help.

    Witness Statement
    Parking Charge Notice: xxxx


    1. I was the registered keeper of the vehicle, registration xxxxxxx, which the claimants allege was parked at Spinningfields Estate, Manchester on xxxx at xxxx. The claim is disputed in its entirety for the following reasons:

    2. The signage says "No Stopping at all" (Figure 1) and as such the signage is prohibitive in nature and not the offer of a contract. This interpretation has been confirmed by the decision of DJ Iyah at Manchester on the 29/11/16 in ES v Ms A case ref C8GF4C12 relating to the same location and signs. Therefore, there can never be a claim for monies arising from a breach of contract.

    3. Any purported contract for parking would be with the landowner, not ES Parking Enforcement Limited (ESPEL). When the initial parking charge Notice (PCN) was received the defendant immediately replied and sought clarification of key points pertaining to the charge, including clarifying their contract with the landholder that demonstrated that they had authority to both issue parking charges and litigate (See Attachments 1). A request for more information was made in this letter, but no response was received to any of the questions so it is my belief that ESPEL have no locus standi and thus cause for action on this matter.

    4. There is no signage on the entrance to Water Street stating that it is a private road, and all the road markings and street furniture are consistent with a public highway (Figures 2 & 3 ). According to Manchester City Councils Highways Service.

    5. If, in fact, they did have authority, the signs are too small to be read from the drivers seat of a vehicle and their position makes them impossible to read and consider without stopping to do so (Figures 1 and 3). This makes then unenforceable and unfair, contrary to the Consumer Contracts Regulations of 2014. The largest font on the sign being for the payment number. The signage also fails to meet the standards set in the BPA code of practice and unless the Claimant can show how any method they use to determine the suitability of their signage matches or exceeds the minimum requirements of that CoP they cannot be said to be adequate notice of a contract. Some signage has been changed at this location following the initial PCN being received, proving ESPEL know the initial signage did not meet the required standard.

    6. The PCN dated xx May 2016 states a period of parking which is not actually provided in the letter. It also states that parking/stopping occurred on the Spinningfields Estate, Manchester but gives no details on where. (Attachment 2)

    6. As ESPEL know that their claim has no merit and they have failed to show a cause for action against the defendant a request for recovery of full costs is requested under CPR 27.14.2.g

    £95 research costs
    £4.50 petrol costs
    £7.50 Parking
    Total = £107.00

    This is a statement of truth to the best of my knowledge and belief.


    dated
    signed
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Jan 17, 12:38 AM
    • 45,155 Posts
    • 57,822 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Looks a little short but TBH as long as you covered all bases in your defence and this is just the added WS and documents (and you enclose the cases you are referring too, and photos) that should be fine.

    I think you should refer to your video and I couldn't see it mentioned. I'm guessing you have now filed this WS anyway though, going by the date. Did you file it with the court and the claimant in time, and did you get theirs yet?

    Make sure you take your costs schedule although don't be surprised if you only get your lost half day's work, and your travel & parking. Claiming successfully for your time wasted on this farce is rare and only if the Judge agrees the claim was vexatious and unreasonable.

    What did the Court Clerk say about video?
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • ABowman
    • By ABowman 16th Jan 17, 12:40 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    ABowman
    Coupon-Mad thanks very much. I submitted it along with all copies of the letters, street and photos etc. I was very short for time but sent it recorded and signed for and in time. I was going to send the video but had to contact the court within 7 days of the original letter to give them a copy and how to view it. I ended up taking stills from it instead.

    I have received nothing from them and though that was it but having checked with the court they very rarely send a WS or send it late. I'm so annoyed as this has cost a lot of time and money. I intend to get this done then make a stink with the MPs.

    Any tips about what to say in court would be good. I have copies of everything etc but don't have a form as such for expenses. I was also going to go over my statement and write it out in full with the aim of asking if I can just read it out.
    • mark61120
    • By mark61120 25th Jan 17, 1:37 PM
    • 70 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    mark61120
    ES Parking Enforcement
    Just to clarify please. If I receive a PCN from ES, then they will not send me a POPLA reference as they are not covered under POPLA, but by IAS only?

    Thanks,
    Mark
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 25th Jan 17, 8:39 PM
    • 12,192 Posts
    • 18,616 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    ESPEL are IPC operators and do not have POPLA as their second stage appeal service. It's just the IAS, for which forum majority opinion is not to bother with. Just send initial appeal to ESPEL then ignore anything after other than LBA or court papers.

    ESPEL are currently litigious, but are getting one or two maulings, so may not be so quick to litigate if they get many more. But don't underestimate the unpredictability of a PPC.

    Your own thread please for any more help required on your case.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
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