Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • IndigoMondayToyota
    • By IndigoMondayToyota 29th May 16, 8:31 PM
    • 51Posts
    • 30Thanks
    IndigoMondayToyota
    UKPC - County Court Claim Defence and Process
    • #1
    • 29th May 16, 8:31 PM
    UKPC - County Court Claim Defence and Process 29th May 16 at 8:31 PM
    Good evening all,

    I come to this forum asking for assistance after reading several threads (including the NEWBIES thread), and forums such as MSE, Pepipoo, ParkingPranksters.

    I've been parking in a private residential area which has allocated parking spots to homeowners. As I live with my parents, they have already taken the allotted parking spot for our house, and we therefore cannot take another one within the area. There are only 3 visitor parking facilities available to the hundreds of people who live here. Often at times, the road leading to where I live is fully parked, along with the visitor parking spaces being taken, and thus leaving me with no option to park other than in front of my flat.

    To cut a long story short, I have received several (more than 10, less than 15) PCN's over the course of a few years from UKPC, who I'm sure most of you are familiar with . These are all issued under the contravention that I was 'not parked correctly within a marked bay', even though there wasn't any allocated bay to be able to park in. These were all issued after October 2013.

    After many months and years of ignoring several threatening letters from UKPC, DRPL, Zenith Collections, I realized (after reading the forums recently) that it was too late to do anything and that I shouldn't have ignored those letters!! BIG BIG MISTAKE!

    I initially received a letter from SCS Law early this month regarding 'debt owed to UKPC', detailing the dates, reference, car reg, location, contravention and the amounts. I responded to this letter which they stated should considered as a 'letter before claim' by using zzzLazyDaisy's template via the thread - 'LBCCC Fightback' as I felt it lacked the requirements to be an official Letter Before Claim. SCS Law then responded about the 'revisions being made to the Practice Direction on Pre action Conduct which came into force on 6th April 2015. Annex A was replaced with Paragraph 6 "Steps Before Issuing". Our letter gave a concise detail of the claim, provided the relevant dates and locations where breaches occurred, and described the breaches which gave rise to the parking charges, including the amounts incurred. We are satisfied that our letter complies with the requirements of paragraph 6.'

    Due to work and private commitments, I was unable to respond to their letter, and therefore brings me to where I am now.

    Recently, I have received a Claim Form from the County Court Business Center which tallies up to a total cost of around £2000 (amount claimed, court fee and legal representative's costs). I know this part should NOT be ignored and I have sent my Acknowledgement of Service and selected the option to say I will be defending my claim in full via MCOL. Quick question - does this give me 28 days from today (29th May), or from day of issue on the claim form?

    From what I gather in Bargepole's summary of County Court Claim Procedure, I am now around and Step 3.

    If anyone could help me with my defense and throughout the whole process (excluding the actual hearing!), I'll be eternally grateful as I've never done any of this before.

    Many thanks in advance,
    Inigo Montoya

    PS. That is obviously not my real name!
Page 5
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Oct 16, 8:13 PM
    • 40,525 Posts
    • 52,411 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Bullet point #14:
    14. This case can be easily distinguished from ParkingEye v Beavis which the Judges held was 'entirely different' from most ordinary economic contract disputes and UKPC have not shown any valid 'legitimate interest' allowing them the unusual right to pursue anything more than a genuine pre-estimate of loss.
    97 - 99 are relevant but not as early as 91 onwards which just sets the scene, surely?

    Have a look at IanMSpencer's summary in his POPLA point #7 and #8 here:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=71338212#post71338212

    Also, include Laura Jopson's appeal case (we do not have the case number so I think we only have the newspaper article but it was a persuasive appeal decision):

    http://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/milton-keynes-woman-secures-landmark-victory-for-flat-tenants-in-parking-dispute-1-7459066

    Shows that a flat's resident has rights and easements that supersede a third party's attempt to bolt on new contractual points to try to punish and bind people who live there and have rights of way.

    Attach your evidence as appendices referred to in your witness statement.

    HTH
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 09-10-2016 at 10:12 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • IndigoMondayToyota
    • By IndigoMondayToyota 9th Oct 16, 9:50 PM
    • 51 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    IndigoMondayToyota
    Also, include Laura Jopson's appeal case (we do not have the case number so I think we only have the newspaper article but it was a persuasive appeal decision):

    http://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/milton-keynes-woman-secures-landmark-victory-for-flat-tenants-in-parking-dispute-1-7459066
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    I had a read through that link and it seems to be appropriate in my case. However I'm not certain on which point to use it in. Perhaps point 15:
    15. If the driver(s) on each occasion were considered to be trespassers if not allowed to park there, then only the landowner can pursue a case under the tort of trespass, not this Claimant, and as the Supreme Court in the Beavis case confirmed, such a matter would be limited to the landowner themselves claiming for a nominal sum.
    Originally posted by IndigoMondayToyota
    I'm not sure I follow on what you mean by the below:
    Attach your evidence as appendices referred to in your witness statement. Shows that a flat's resident has rights and easements that supersede a third party's attempt to bolt on new contractual points to try to punish and bind people who live there and have rights of way.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Thanks in advance.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Oct 16, 10:12 PM
    • 40,525 Posts
    • 52,411 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Attach your evidence (your case law, photos etc) as numbered 'exhibits' referred to in your witness statement you are drawing up now.

    This bit is talking about the Laura Jopson case:

    Shows that a flat's resident has rights and easements that supersede a third party's attempt to bolt on new contractual points to try to punish and bind people who live there and have rights of way.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • IndigoMondayToyota
    • By IndigoMondayToyota 9th Oct 16, 10:27 PM
    • 51 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    IndigoMondayToyota
    Thanks CM.

    Really sorry, but i still dont follow.

    I was due to do that any way on my Witness Statements by saying at the end of each point, "Please refer to Exhibit BX".

    Have i got this completely wrong...?

    Or do you mean adding something like the below to the end:
    "Appendix:

    Exhibit B1 - Title / Register Plan
    Exhibit B2 - UKPC Sign 1
    Exhibit B3 - UKPC Sign 2
    etc."
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Oct 16, 10:31 PM
    • 40,525 Posts
    • 52,411 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    You could do both - whatever looks the most easy to read. No hard & fast rules in small claims.

    Try to make it easy for the Judge to follow and make your witness statement double-line spaced as well.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • IndigoMondayToyota
    • By IndigoMondayToyota 9th Oct 16, 10:48 PM
    • 51 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    IndigoMondayToyota
    OK, thank you.

    I'll be bringing correspondents which I've had to/from SCS / UKPC that I haven't referred to in my Full Defence, or Witness Statement, for example the SAR Request for information from UKPC.

    I take it these may not be accepted as they're not being filed prior to the trial taking place?
    • IndigoMondayToyota
    • By IndigoMondayToyota 9th Oct 16, 11:11 PM
    • 51 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    IndigoMondayToyota
    OK...now I'm worried.

    I've just re-read the Notice of Allocation for Small Claims Track.

    It says that 'The defendant / all other parties must before 4pm on 22 September 2016 send to the court and the claimant a bundle which must contain all the documents you wish the court to consider at the hearing"
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Oct 16, 11:48 PM
    • 40,525 Posts
    • 52,411 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Send it anyway, tomorrow. Keep proof.

    Have they sent theirs?
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • IndigoMondayToyota
    • By IndigoMondayToyota 9th Oct 16, 11:50 PM
    • 51 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    IndigoMondayToyota
    nope, no sign of theirs. I was going to send it Tuesday for Next Day Delivery (so they get it either 12th, or 13th. Both still within 14 day limit.

    Can you ocmment on my post #86?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th Oct 16, 12:40 AM
    • 40,525 Posts
    • 52,411 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    OK, thank you.

    I'll be bringing correspondents which I've had to/from SCS / UKPC that I haven't referred to in my Full Defence, or Witness Statement, for example the SAR Request for information from UKPC.

    I take it these may not be accepted as they're not being filed prior to the trial taking place?
    Originally posted by IndigoMondayToyota
    I would file everything you intend to rely upon and do so tomorrow if you possibly can.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 10th Oct 16, 7:34 AM
    • 985 Posts
    • 1,727 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    It says that 'The defendant / all other parties must before 4pm on 22 September 2016
    Call the court to see if their bundle arrived on time. Check your spam folder as they sometimes send their bundle to you by email (if they have it). Your bundle is late so they may object to it but it is for the judge to decide.
    Last edited by IamEmanresu; 10-10-2016 at 7:39 AM.
    General Election coming up? Your MP worried about his/her job? Give them something to do and get them to sort out these parking cowboys. Search "Theyworkforyou" for the name of your MP.
    • IndigoMondayToyota
    • By IndigoMondayToyota 10th Oct 16, 11:30 AM
    • 51 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    IndigoMondayToyota
    Called up the court, and they said the case was discontinued.

    I asked why, they said they didn't know and to contact the Claimant to find out why.

    I also asked if they filed anything with the court, and it doesn't seem like it.

    As you can imagine, I'm relieved however a little apprehensive to celebrate early!

    My questions are:
    - From your experience, any reason why it would've been discontinued?
    - Should I contact the Claimant, UKPC, or even SCS Law to find out why?
    - Should I still file my defence bundle?
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 10th Oct 16, 11:42 AM
    • 985 Posts
    • 1,727 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    - From your experience, any reason why it would've been discontinued?
    Lots of these claims are looking for soft touches. A "win" doesn't cover their costs

    - Should I contact the Claimant, UKPC, or even SCS Law to find out
    why?
    You may want to go back to the court and ask the date of the discontinuance. You may be able to ask for costs if they left it late.

    - Should I still file my defence bundle?
    I'm sure the hamsters at the court would welcome new bedding or the cats, new cat litter.
    General Election coming up? Your MP worried about his/her job? Give them something to do and get them to sort out these parking cowboys. Search "Theyworkforyou" for the name of your MP.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 10th Oct 16, 12:32 PM
    • 5,561 Posts
    • 4,272 Thanks
    The Deep
    From your experience, any reason why it would've been discontinued?

    Perhaps they have just seen this

    http://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/milton-keynes-woman-secures-landmark-victory-for-flat-tenants-in-parking-dispute-1-7459066
    Last edited by The Deep; 10-10-2016 at 12:56 PM.
    • IndigoMondayToyota
    • By IndigoMondayToyota 10th Oct 16, 1:02 PM
    • 51 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    IndigoMondayToyota
    Perhaps...

    Gave them another call, and they said it was filed on 22nd September.

    If it was filed so early, surely I would've been told about it by now by the court?

    Dare I contact the Claimant? Or will they just tell me to FRO?

    Also, I was really looking forward to handing them new bedding and nibbles
    • IndigoMondayToyota
    • By IndigoMondayToyota 11th Oct 16, 12:21 AM
    • 51 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    IndigoMondayToyota
    Also worth mentioning, I check MCOL regularly, and it never said anything about it being discontinued. Just the fact that it's been assigned to the county court near me.

    So what to do now? Have a beer and celebrate?

    If so, do you want my case reference?
    • bod1467
    • By bod1467 11th Oct 16, 10:30 AM
    • 14,806 Posts
    • 13,448 Thanks
    bod1467
    I'm not sure a case reference for a discontinued case would have any relevance or weight unfortunately, but thanks for the offer.
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 11th Oct 16, 11:58 AM
    • 1,006 Posts
    • 915 Thanks
    DoaM
    It seems the above poster has been PPRd with a permanent ban.

    MSE in their usual way have failed to explain their stance in any way whatsoever. No doubt they sent the above poster a PM about this ... which he'll never be able to read!
    Last edited by DoaM; 11-10-2016 at 12:47 PM.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • IndigoMondayToyota
    • By IndigoMondayToyota 11th Oct 16, 5:47 PM
    • 51 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    IndigoMondayToyota
    https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part38#38.3

    With reference to 38.3 (1) (b), and 38.3 (2), the Claimant must serve a copy of the discontuance to every other party of the proceedings.

    As they've failed to do this (and no, they haven't sent me an email as I have never given this to them), would it have been SCS Law/UKPC or the court that should've issued this by post?
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 11th Oct 16, 7:03 PM
    • 1,006 Posts
    • 915 Thanks
    DoaM
    The Claimant (UKPC) should have done so (or their appointed representative - SCS Law in this case) ... the Court would not do so and have no obligation to do so.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

605Posts Today

3,597Users online

Martin's Twitter