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  • FIRST POST
    • fostany99
    • By fostany99 24th May 16, 8:00 PM
    • 11Posts
    • 12Thanks
    fostany99
    Ashton Retail Park - Excell Parking
    • #1
    • 24th May 16, 8:00 PM
    Ashton Retail Park - Excell Parking 24th May 16 at 8:00 PM
    Hi All

    I have recently received 4 parking notices each for £60 dated within the last 2 weeks for parking in ashton retail park.

    I am a member of the gym which allows 2 hours free parking (which I was well under) but I didn't use the automated system in the gym as I was unaware that this was necessary.

    Just wondering how to defend this, I am going to the gym manager tomorrow for help or should I use the templates on the newbies thread to try to defend this??

    Thanks
Page 2
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 7th Mar 17, 11:06 AM
    • 450 Posts
    • 874 Thanks
    Lamilad

    Any suggestions or threads I can look through to prepare a response

    Thanks
    Originally posted by fostany99
    Too many to mention. Use the search function or scroll back through the pages to find loads of cases involving Excel.

    I don't think there's any point responding to this LoC. If it quotes a claim no. then it's already been filed with the court and you'll soon receive the N1 claim form+ response pack.

    There's been lots of cases similar to yours involving the Sports Direct Gym at The Cavendish Retail Park in Keighley. So search for those too on here and Pepipoo.

    When court papers arrive you'll need to acknowledge them online via MCOL that gives you 33 days from the issue date to prepare your defence so don't click the 'start defence' option. Ignore that for now
    Last edited by Lamilad; 07-03-2017 at 11:09 AM.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 10th Mar 17, 4:01 PM
    • 13,658 Posts
    • 16,763 Thanks
    Redx
    remove all those references and any other personal details from your last post

    NEVER post stuff like that on an open forum

    phone the court in Northampton and check its a genuine claim

    then you should be preparing a defence , as the COURT sub-section of the NEWBIES sticky thread tells you to do (not a "response")

    I dont think arguing with JAKE BURGESS is going to do you any good at this time

    and it doesnt sound like your "friends" have a clue what they are talking about

    LAMILAD was in court against excel and Jake Burgess himself, you should heed what he tells you

    here is a recent one who has fallen into the same trap

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5615297

    but they are only just starting off, no court case YET

    in MY OPINION you have a genuine court claim from Northampton Bulk Centre Court , which you should be defending
    Last edited by Redx; 10-03-2017 at 4:11 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 10th Mar 17, 4:32 PM
    • 2,023 Posts
    • 1,924 Thanks
    DoaM
    remove all those references and any other personal details from your last post

    NEVER post stuff like that on an open forum
    Originally posted by Redx
    And do it quickly before it gets cached by Google/Internet Archive etc. Once that happens then it's there forever.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 10th Mar 17, 6:31 PM
    • 450 Posts
    • 874 Thanks
    Lamilad
    remove all those references and any other personal details from your last post
    Originally posted by Redx
    You need to do this quickly! As Doam said - you don't want this info lingering about.

    phone the court in Northampton and check its a genuine claim
    Originally posted by Redx
    You should have just done this rather than sending that pointless letter

    [B]and it doesnt sound like your "friends" have a clue what they are talking about
    Originally posted by Redx
    Sounds like you been given 'advice' from a certain Facebook page that thinks it knows a lot more than it does.

    in MY OPINION you have a genuine court claim from Northampton Bulk Centre Court , which you should be defending
    Originally posted by Redx
    I agree that this will almost certainly be a genuine claim. Excel/VCS take people to court all the time they do not need to make up false claim No.s.

    I'm afraid the letter you sent was a waste of time and will achieve nothing.

    * Ring Northampton and confirm the claim No. and ask where your N1 + response pack is.
    * When you get the papers complete 'Acknowledgement of Service' (AOS) on the MCOL website. DO NOT click 'start defence' leave that well alone for now.
    * Research research research, other court cases involving Excel/VCS on here and Pepipoo. There's enough reference material for you to defend this case a thousand times over.
    * Read other defences to see how yours should look, or plagiarise/ adapt a defence to suit your case. Then post it on here for review/ further advice
    * Don't listen to the cr*p spouted by certain FB pages. Trust me - bad advice is worse than no advice
    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/parkingeye-win-and-are-awarded.html
    Last edited by Lamilad; 10-03-2017 at 6:34 PM.
    • fostany99
    • By fostany99 11th Mar 17, 8:46 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    fostany99
    deleted - It was actually someone I showed it too - but no experience of this type of stuff - lesson learnt - I will give the court a call Monday - I have read through the stuff around defences on the Newbies thread

    I've got the list of evidence to prepare from the Newbies thread as well and pretty sure I can gather a fair bit of this
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 11th Mar 17, 9:02 AM
    • 6,277 Posts
    • 5,101 Thanks
    The Deep
    Do they have a Facebook or TripAdviser page? If so write bad stuff on it. Take out an advert in the local paper warning people off using the gym.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • fostany99
    • By fostany99 11th Mar 17, 9:19 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    fostany99
    I have had a response from the gym stating there is nothing they can do - I think with the amount of business they a losing over this they would if they could

    I will prepare a Part 18 request and a statement of defence and post on here
    Last edited by fostany99; 11-03-2017 at 9:52 AM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Mar 17, 11:51 PM
    • 45,089 Posts
    • 57,719 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    OK, as long as the Acknowledgement of Service has been done online using the password on the claim form.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • fostany99
    • By fostany99 14th Mar 17, 6:54 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    fostany99
    So sure enough I rang the court and they haven't sent me the claim forms or response pack - the court have forwarded them on to me.

    I have just emailed the acknowledgement of service back to the court and that I intend to defend the claim

    Lamilad - I have read your Part 18 and intend to send this (bits changed from it) as it looks similar to the ones I have read up on so far

    Should I issue the Part 18 now and then defence as soon as I'm ready or wait for a response?

    I intend to defend the case but I got the following questions.

    1. I have evidence that I was in the gym as they have provided me with door swipes - do I use this as part of my defence??.

    2. On all of the signs around the carpark it makes no mention of a fine, the amount or the need to use the reg machine in the gym - the only sign that makes reference to the fine is the sign by the pay and display machine (which you wouldn't see if you were going to the gym) - so It take it I include this in the defence - as with others

    4. The particulars of claim state that I was issued with a PCN on the date - I wasn't - they sent me the invoice with a picture of my car entering/leaving the carpark from the camera's - do I include this?
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 14th Mar 17, 7:55 PM
    • 450 Posts
    • 874 Thanks
    Lamilad
    I have just emailed the acknowledgement of service back to the court and that I intend to defend the claim
    Originally posted by fostany99
    How have you done that without the response pack or access to mcol?

    Lamilad - I have read your Part 18 and intend to send this (bits changed from it) as it looks similar to the ones I have read up on so far

    Should I issue the Part 18 now and then defence as soon as I'm ready or wait for a response?
    Originally posted by fostany99
    Tbh, sending a P18 in my case was pointless, it didn't help me prepare my defence or give me any useful information.

    Send one if you want but they're not obliged to reply as P18's are N/A in small claims. Although if you reasonably ask for further information to help you understand the case better and they don't provide it then the would be unreasonable as per the overriding objective.

    If you want to compel them to send you something then consider a SAR. Under the DPA they have to respond to this within 40 days
    https://bmpa.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/206890469-6-Subject-Access-Requests-Easy-

    I intend to defend the case but I got the following questions.

    1. I have evidence that I was in the gym as they have provided me with door swipes - do I use this as part of my defence??.
    Originally posted by fostany99
    you mention it in your defence then submit it as evidence when send in your WS

    2. On all of the signs around the carpark it makes no mention of a fine, the amount or the need to use the reg machine in the gym - the only sign that makes reference to the fine is the sign by the pay and display machine (which you wouldn't see if you were going to the gym) - so It take it I include this in the defence - as with others
    Originally posted by fostany99
    It's not a 'fine' so you won't find anything about that, but there should be something about a 'parking charge' for using the car park other than in accordance with the T&Cs. So what do the signs actually say?

    Are there signs by the gym entrance and inside the gym explaining the T&C's to gym users?

    4. The particulars of claim state that I was issued with a PCN on the date - I wasn't - they sent me the invoice with a picture of my car entering/leaving the carpark from the camera's - do I include this?
    Originally posted by fostany99
    No, in anpr cases you don't get a physical 'parking ticket' just a 'notice to keeper' (NTK) through the post, which is what they've sent you.
    • fostany99
    • By fostany99 15th Mar 17, 1:41 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    fostany99
    Thanks

    I will send the SAR and P18 by recorded mail tomorrow morning - I have confirmed with the court that they have received my acknowledgement so I know have additional time to prepare the defence - I will post on here once I have completed - the SAR information will arrive after the date to submit my defence though

    The signs around the carpark state that people parking in the carpark are subject to the terms and conditions and that full terms and condition are displayed on the sign by the pay and display machine - and then at the bottom of the pay and display machine they have stated the parking charge.

    There is a small sign to the left hand side of one of the doors on the entrance to the gym (there are two doors) that states you should use the Reg machine - this has been put up by the gym not excel - I can't recall any inside the gym.
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 15th Mar 17, 2:12 PM
    • 450 Posts
    • 874 Thanks
    Lamilad
    Thanks

    I will send the SAR and P18 by recorded mail tomorrow morning.
    Originally posted by fostany99
    first class post = free proof of posting. Don't waste your hard earned.

    the SAR information will arrive after the date to submit my defence though
    Originally posted by fostany99
    It will but you can mention in your defence that you have sent the SAR for the following reasons - blah blah - and anything relevant will be in you WS and/or adduced into evidence

    The signs around the carpark state that people parking in the carpark are subject to the terms and conditions and that full terms and condition are displayed on the sign by the pay and display machine - and then at the bottom of the pay and display machine they have stated the parking charge.

    There is a small sign to the left hand side of one of the doors on the entrance to the gym (there are two doors) that states you should use the Reg machine - this has been put up by the gym not excel - I can't recall any inside the gym.
    Originally posted by fostany99
    excel cannot rely on any signs that the gym has put up. in fact you could argue that if the gym are having to put their own signs up to protect their customer then that shows excel have not displayed enough signs to form a contract. This fails the Beavis test i.e. - para. 108 "[the signs] could not have been briefer, clearer or more prominently proclaimed"
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Mar 17, 2:31 PM
    • 45,089 Posts
    • 57,719 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Originally Posted by fostany99
    The signs around the carpark state that people parking in the carpark are subject to the terms and conditions and that full terms and condition are displayed on the sign by the pay and display machine - and then at the bottom of the pay and display machine they have stated the parking charge.

    There is a small sign to the left hand side of one of the doors on the entrance to the gym (there are two doors) that states you should use the Reg machine - this has been put up by the gym not excel - I can't recall any inside the gym.
    Get photos inside and outside as your evidence, also the P&D machine area to prove the parking charge is hidden, effectively.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • fostany99
    • By fostany99 15th Mar 17, 7:55 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    fostany99
    Thanks Coupan Mad - Im no longer a member but I'll try and get something inside - They sent me photos of the signage already from a previous request but they do them more justice than in the carpark so I am going to take my own and video as well.

    Please see below Part 18 request I put together - I have also sent them an SAR

    PART 18 REQUEST FOR FURTHER INFORMATION

    To: Excel Parking Services Ltd

    Please answer the following questions:

    1. Your cause of action: please make this clear. If you claim that the driver entered into a contract, then please send me a complete breakdown of all terms and conditions.

    2. What are you claiming for, is it loss and damages, if so please send me a complete breakdown of all costs for each item in the claim. if not then is it tresspass?

    3. Please send an unredacted copy of the contract to show standing between Excel Parking Services Ltd and the 'Landowner' at the time of the alleged offence.

    4. Please supply full contact details for the above 'Landowner' for the duration of the contract.

    5. If the contract has been conveyed by the use of signage on site, please provide copies of the signs on which you rely and confirm these are the signs in situ on the date of the event. Please also provide the date these signs were installed, for example, a works schedule, maintenance record or invoice for the work.

    6. Do the signs in question meet the British Parking Association's Code of Practice Appendix B (Entrance signs) or the Independent Parking Committee’s Schedule 1 (Please indicate)

    7. Please advise if, at the time of the alleged offence, there were any entrances to the car park that were not covered by Excel cameras, i.e. via local business entrances

    TAKE NOTICE THAT YOU ARE REQUIRED TO ANSWER THE ABOVE REQUEST WITHIN 14 DAYS OF SERVICE OF THE SAME UPON YOU.
    I also require that answers to these questions be verified by a Statement of Truth by an authorised signatory of Excel Parking Services Ltd

    Yours Faithfully
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Mar 17, 10:37 PM
    • 45,089 Posts
    • 57,719 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    6. Do the signs in question meet the British Parking Association's Code of Practice Appendix B (Entrance signs) or the Independent Parking Committee’s Schedule 1 (Please indicate)
    I would remove this one as it doesn't assist you. Make the request short and not a burden.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

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