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Results: Are you voting to remain or leave?

Remain

39.09% • 77 votes

Leave

54.82% • 108 votes

Undecided

6.09% • 12 votes

You may not vote on this poll

197 votes in total.

  • FIRST POST
    • tara747
    • By tara747 24th May 16, 12:17 PM
    • 9,952Posts
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    tara747
    Referendum: which way are you voting?
    • #1
    • 24th May 16, 12:17 PM
    Referendum: which way are you voting? 24th May 16 at 12:17 PM
    MoneySavingExpert Insert:

    Hi all, if you want to see Martin's view on us leaving the EU read our news story:

    Martin's reaction to Brexit: what will it mean for the economy, mortgages, savings and more?

    Back to the original post...

    ------------

    Just out of curiosity.


    Feel free to state your reasons either way in the comments
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Page 18
    • RikM
    • By RikM 18th Oct 16, 4:44 PM
    • 486 Posts
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    RikM
    Nicola is trump in high heels.
    Originally posted by qwert yuiop
    You had to put that picture into my head...?
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 18th Oct 16, 5:06 PM
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    qwert yuiop
    If he wins, we'll have to look at that hair for the next four years. I can't see it happening, but then I couldn't see Brexit happening either. Neither could David Cameron.
    Strange how out of 300 million Americans, they're left with a choice between two candidates that nobody seems to like.
    • waltsalt
    • By waltsalt 18th Oct 16, 5:42 PM
    • 228 Posts
    • 121 Thanks
    waltsalt
    A douchebag and a turd sandwich.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 18th Oct 16, 6:14 PM
    • 13,795 Posts
    • 7,302 Thanks
    motorguy
    I'm not a brexitist, but I'm running at about 80 % of my income in euros ( at the same prices as pre vote) so I've had a 22% pay rise. So that makes me a "boom and gloom" type.

    "I can't complain, but sometimes I still do"
    Originally posted by qwert yuiop
    I'm an IT contractor and most of my work has been on the UK mainland (currently in Manchester), as the market rates arent that great in Dublin, however i'll be looking closely at the South for my next contract.

    Could work out very nicely.
    Regards

    Paul
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 18th Oct 16, 7:54 PM
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    qwert yuiop
    I'm an IT contractor and most of my work has been on the UK mainland (currently in Manchester), as the market rates arent that great in Dublin, however i'll be looking closely at the South for my next contract.

    Could work out very nicely.
    Originally posted by motorguy
    Yes indeed, and you never know what's going to happen next. Perhaps it's time to shift euro earnings into pounds. The panic seems to have gone anyway.
    • guiriman
    • By guiriman 18th Oct 16, 10:04 PM
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    • 179 Thanks
    guiriman
    Essentially we've been borrowing our prosperity for quite a while.
    Originally posted by saverbuyer
    Us and the rest of the Western world! Not too many countries out there without a debt mountain eg http://www.usgovernmentdebt.us/
    • x12yhp
    • By x12yhp 19th Oct 16, 4:41 PM
    • 731 Posts
    • 392 Thanks
    x12yhp
    And guess what? I bet a lot of those suppliers are chancing their arm, based on brexit.


    And of course, a weaker pound helps UK businesses export goods more competitively, something the bank of England is probably quite pleased about as a side effect.

    Originally posted by motorguy
    Sorry Paul but you are accusing almost every one of our suppliers of lying. That is awfully sweeping. Do you have any hard evidence of companies putting prices up, having suffered no material inflation themselves, and then telling customers otherwise? Please post it if you do. I have heard this kind of thing a whole load of times but it is from people who aren't actually in the supply chains they are commenting on. In any case, a lot of it is obviously true. if you rely on materials which are price in euro or dollars, your sterling costs will have increased. That isn't a guess, it is mathematical fact. Here is a letter I have just received:

    Plastic Container Price Review - 14th November 2016

    Dear Customer,

    The last 3 years have been a period of relative stability as far as our prices are concerned as we have been able to smooth out the effects of any overheads increases and fluctuations in raw material prices and exchange rates. Sadly that is now changing and in dramatic fashion.

    You will I’m sure be well aware that since the Brexit vote in June, the £ Sterling has been sliding in value. Along with our principal suppliers we have been monitoring the situation and looking for signs of stabilisation or a return to pre-vote levels, but after 4 months the slide appears to be accelerating and we are now at a point where we cannot continue to absorb the full force of the decline.
    It isn’t just the cost of imported containers where the impact is being felt but even UK manufactured containers since all plastic raw material is imported and the higher cost is now feeding through from these suppliers as well. Therefore an increase in prices is now essential and with effect from Monday 14th November 2016 our selling prices will increase by 8%, although on some specifications it may be higher.

    We value your custom and seek your understanding in what is fast becoming an impossible situation for us.


    Yours Faithfully,


    This relates to plastics in general. If your product has plastics in it, prices will rise. This is because your plastic comes from oil which is... priced in dollars. Guess what - your detergents (so anything that does cleaning) are predominantly derived from hydrocarbon sources. Things derived from the likes of coconut oils (you would be surprised how common these are) are also priced in euro/dollars (not to mention the fact that the base material is also very expensive). The list is extremely long, based solely on the effect of the weak pound.

    I am just sick and tired of people saying that it is blatant 'sticking the arm in' when they clearly do not know what they are talking about. Sticking the head in the sand and denying it is even worse than the people who refuse to move on and accept the brexit result.
    Always overestimating...
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 25th Oct 16, 12:38 PM
    • 13,795 Posts
    • 7,302 Thanks
    motorguy
    Sorry Paul but you are accusing almost every one of our suppliers of lying. That is awfully sweeping. Do you have any hard evidence of companies putting prices up, having suffered no material inflation themselves, and then telling customers otherwise? Please post it if you do. I have heard this kind of thing a whole load of times but it is from people who aren't actually in the supply chains they are commenting on. In any case, a lot of it is obviously true. if you rely on materials which are price in euro or dollars, your sterling costs will have increased. That isn't a guess, it is mathematical fact. Here is a letter I have just received:

    Plastic Container Price Review - 14th November 2016

    Dear Customer,

    The last 3 years have been a period of relative stability as far as our prices are concerned as we have been able to smooth out the effects of any overheads increases and fluctuations in raw material prices and exchange rates. Sadly that is now changing and in dramatic fashion.

    You will I’m sure be well aware that since the Brexit vote in June, the £ Sterling has been sliding in value. Along with our principal suppliers we have been monitoring the situation and looking for signs of stabilisation or a return to pre-vote levels, but after 4 months the slide appears to be accelerating and we are now at a point where we cannot continue to absorb the full force of the decline.
    It isn’t just the cost of imported containers where the impact is being felt but even UK manufactured containers since all plastic raw material is imported and the higher cost is now feeding through from these suppliers as well. Therefore an increase in prices is now essential and with effect from Monday 14th November 2016 our selling prices will increase by 8%, although on some specifications it may be higher.

    We value your custom and seek your understanding in what is fast becoming an impossible situation for us.


    Yours Faithfully,


    This relates to plastics in general. If your product has plastics in it, prices will rise. This is because your plastic comes from oil which is... priced in dollars. Guess what - your detergents (so anything that does cleaning) are predominantly derived from hydrocarbon sources. Things derived from the likes of coconut oils (you would be surprised how common these are) are also priced in euro/dollars (not to mention the fact that the base material is also very expensive). The list is extremely long, based solely on the effect of the weak pound.

    I am just sick and tired of people saying that it is blatant 'sticking the arm in' when they clearly do not know what they are talking about. Sticking the head in the sand and denying it is even worse than the people who refuse to move on and accept the brexit result.
    Originally posted by x12yhp

    If that's what you are seeing then that's what you are seeing and of course I am sure all those suppliers will drop the prices again the instant the pound recovers......


    Lets be honest here - there are people and organisations who are using "because Brexit" as an excuse for a particular failing and I am sick and tired of that - though sadly of course its set to be the excuse of choice for many years to come.
    Regards

    Paul
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 25th Oct 16, 2:30 PM
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    qwert yuiop
    Well we may find out, since the pound has improved against the euro in the last few days - around 1%.
    • x12yhp
    • By x12yhp 26th Oct 16, 9:29 AM
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    x12yhp
    It is wishful thinking to think that prices will go back down the 'instant' the pound strengthens. It is October now and the sterling hit is 4 months old. Many suppliers have yet to actually implement price rises (they are advised but not yet in action). If you think that a 1% change in the last week is going to have them change their stance, you don't know how business works.

    If we find the pound back at €1.25 and $1.5 for the next 3 months, prices will come back. But do you really think that is going to happen?

    Yes, 'Brexit' is getting the blame for a great many things but there can be no logic based argument which denies that Brexit has led to weakening of the pound. Weakening of the pound has led to a sizable increase in the cost of anything whose base materials are priced in something other than sterling. As before, that means anything derived from oil (not to mention all sorts of other things). Denial of that fact and trying to change to blaming the businesses is just playing a Trump.
    Always overestimating...
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 26th Oct 16, 10:11 AM
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    qwert yuiop
    Actually, no, I don't expect any such thing, and almost all my savings are still in euro, so my actions match my words. As someone who works in two states, I have to keep a close eye on the relative values of two currencies. All we can say so far is that the pound appears to have got its crash over, and I was lucky enough to be on the right side of it. However, a 1% recovery is probably enough to provide some level of confidence, as long as it's sustained. As long as ...
    • x12yhp
    • By x12yhp 26th Oct 16, 12:30 PM
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    • 392 Thanks
    x12yhp
    I suspect - at least for the moment - that you are correct. However, we don't really know what is coming (heck look at the outcome of the meeting with regional leaders earlier this week - only the DUP came out of it thinking that something useful was said). There is the potential for more pain but I think that the EU trade deal on Canada is a big risk to the EU - the blocking by a small local region only goes to prove the validity of the motivation for the UK leaving. This is a double edged sword, of course. This canada issue may have others more willing to accept that the EU (in present form) is a bit daft. That may go to help fuel further exits, who knows? That being the case, will weaken the Euro and thus put the pound back onto a stronger footing (good!). On the flip side, when it comes to the UK negotiating a package, we could find that some daft contingent within the EU - with no real reliance on the UK, simply an axe to grind -could block any half reasonable trade deal. That being the case, we could well have another correction on our hands. Of course that scenario would spell more doom for the EU so we end up going down a rabbit hole.

    In all of this, however, we have a lot of work to do to regain strength on the dollar. To some extent, the pound/dollar has corrected to what the market feels the UK is 'worth' out of the EU. Until we get the exit underway and have some idea what it will mean at national level and how businesses react to that policy, we won't know if things will get better or worse. I think that it should get better, since the UK IS better than what this correction has valued us at. However, wranglings with the EU could spook the markets further and we could find that we have a dozen years of hard slog to prove our worth to the world.

    Ultimately this whole thing boils down to the UK believing in itself - that is fine, I think we are better as a team but I don't disagree that we can do well ourselves. Unfortunately, the world disagrees (in fact, we knew they disagreed before we voted - the press was overwhelming in this regard). No level of self belief can fix this quickly. This outcome was almost inevitably going to mean a significant period proving to the world what we believe ourselves. I just hope that, by the time my daughter enters the working world, things will have settled. For my parents (who voted out), I fear that they are going to have to suffer a few years extra before properly retiring, they will need the money to pay for the newly inflated price of living.
    Always overestimating...
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 26th Oct 16, 1:21 PM
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    qwert yuiop
    My parents, as children of the 40s, are horrified that anyone was happy to disrupt European interdependence. My children will not be able to experience the freedom of labour mobility that I have. If that's the only drawback, I'm sure they'll cope.

    The latest leak really puts a cap on it - Theresa telling Goldman Sachs that she believed Brexit was a bad idea. What next? Boris is found to have written an article in support of communism just in case it ever becomes popular again?
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 26th Oct 16, 1:29 PM
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    motorguy
    My parents, as children of the 40s, are horrified that anyone was happy to disrupt European interdependence. My children will not be able to experience the freedom of labour mobility that I have. If that's the only drawback, I'm sure they'll cope.

    The latest leak really puts a cap on it - Theresa telling Goldman Sachs that she believed Brexit was a bad idea. What next? Boris is found to have written an article in support of communism just in case it ever becomes popular again?
    Originally posted by qwert yuiop


    I'm quote happy with the prospect of Brexit.


    My son is 22 and hes furious. Hasn't known any different I guess, or that there was "life before the EU"
    Regards

    Paul
    • RikM
    • By RikM 26th Oct 16, 9:53 PM
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    RikM
    The "freedom of labour mobility" thing is a bit of a red herring for most people over here. It's just another passport...
    • x12yhp
    • By x12yhp 27th Oct 16, 12:39 AM
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    • 392 Thanks
    x12yhp
    I'm quote happy with the prospect of Brexit.


    My son is 22 and hes furious. Hasn't known any different I guess, or that there was "life before the EU"
    Originally posted by motorguy
    Sounds similar to my father. When he was in his 20s and 30s, the EU wasn't there to give him a load of opportunities. Now that he is in his 60s he sees mostly the red tape and silly things that hit the news.

    The difference between my father and I is that, when I was in my early 20s, the EU gave me the opportunity to easily travel, to gain funding to spend time as a PhD student, to work at places like CERN (etc). He has considered mostly just his experience and has ignored that things have changed such that there is more now than ever existed in his youth.

    Unfortunately, Brexit will impact your son's potential for higher level education when you compare it to me. It might not matter to your son specifically, but there are lots of bright kids out there who will be forced to fight for jobs at an earlier age because there money won't be there to spend time in university at the upper levels.
    Always overestimating...
    • saverbuyer
    • By saverbuyer 27th Oct 16, 8:45 AM
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    saverbuyer
    Sounds similar to my father. When he was in his 20s and 30s, the EU wasn't there to give him a load of opportunities. Now that he is in his 60s he sees mostly the red tape and silly things that hit the news.

    The difference between my father and I is that, when I was in my early 20s, the EU gave me the opportunity to easily travel, to gain funding to spend time as a PhD student, to work at places like CERN (etc). He has considered mostly just his experience and has ignored that things have changed such that there is more now than ever existed in his youth.

    Unfortunately, Brexit will impact your son's potential for higher level education when you compare it to me. It might not matter to your son specifically, but there are lots of bright kids out there who will be forced to fight for jobs at an earlier age because there money won't be there to spend time in university at the upper levels.
    Originally posted by x12yhp


    Is the work you are doing now export based?
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 27th Oct 16, 10:01 AM
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    • 744 Thanks
    qwert yuiop
    Sounds similar to my father. When he was in his 20s and 30s, the EU wasn't there to give him a load of opportunities. Now that he is in his 60s he sees mostly the red tape and silly things that hit the news.

    The difference between my father and I is that, when I was in my early 20s, the EU gave me the opportunity to easily travel, to gain funding to spend time as a PhD student, to work at places like CERN (etc). He has considered mostly just his experience and has ignored that things have changed such that there is more now than ever existed in his youth.

    Unfortunately, Brexit will impact your son's potential for higher level education when you compare it to me. It might not matter to your son specifically, but there are lots of bright kids out there who will be forced to fight for jobs at an earlier age because there money won't be there to spend time in university at the upper levels.
    Originally posted by x12yhp
    That was all disrupted by Blair's removal of free third level education. Brexit or otherwise had very little to do with this. Aren't the Swiss involved?
    • x12yhp
    • By x12yhp 27th Oct 16, 7:52 PM
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    • 392 Thanks
    x12yhp
    Is the work you are doing now export based?
    Originally posted by saverbuyer
    To an extent, but mostly that means to mainland UK. So that means the majority of my customers are going to be subject to price rises. The fact that I am a UK based manufacturer with almost every material purchased from UK suppliers doesn't help that.

    That was all disrupted by Blair's removal of free third level education. Brexit or otherwise had very little to do with this. Aren't the Swiss involved?
    Originally posted by qwert yuiop
    This posed little problem when I was a student. This opens up an entirely different topic where I will tell you that there are a whole lot of kids going to university who have no place there. Moreover, when I left after 10 years in academia, we were pretty much teaching level 0 stuff from 10 years past to the level 1 students. IMHO, the problem in this topic is that everyone has been told that they are great and deserve to be at university. Frankly, a lot of university students have neither motivation or intelligence to deserve it (sorry if that hurts anyone's feelings). In any case, I was talking more in reference to the level above this. Doing a PhD hasn't typically been an expensive thing to do, in large part because of the EU funding which has paid for it. You may think that this is no loss as its just a bunch of student nerds. However we are generally talking about the brightest students out of the education system who were going into research type careers which is a significant driver for the economy. By being out of the EU, we will have fewer kids moving through into research and development careers and those who do still do so will have a narrower experience because they simply won't have had the opportunity to learn from others in the way generations ahead could.
    Always overestimating...
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 28th Oct 16, 2:25 AM
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    qwert yuiop
    Well, that's an entirely different matter. I believe only 14% of 18 year olds were at university in the 1980s. I agree that the system has gone awry, with an apparent obligation to take on debt which may never be repaid.

    As for PhD funding, surely it's a matter of uk government policy rather than any fundamental aspect of eu philosophy or practice. I wouldn't discount the possibility of the same programmes continuing. CERN as you mention involves Switzerland, being sited on the border, and was established long before the eu got to its present size by many countries not in the eec at the time.
    It seems Theresa was able to facilitate nissan's expansion. Why should everything grind to a halt?
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