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  • FIRST POST
    • Ader1
    • By Ader1 22nd May 16, 3:54 PM
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    Ader1
    Disagreements with manager and meeting with HR
    • #1
    • 22nd May 16, 3:54 PM
    Disagreements with manager and meeting with HR 22nd May 16 at 3:54 PM
    I have had a couple of disagreements with my manager. I didn't think the disagreements were that serious in nature but she has taken it further and earlier this month I was invited for an informal meeting with HR to discuss concerns they have regarding my conduct. I thought it went very well. Two weeks later, I have received another letter from HR which doesn't seem very nice in tone and starting with how we had discussed oncerns about my conduct when interacting with colleagues. It goes on to say that I should ensure that interactions with colleagues be respectful and appropriate or my prabation period (for a new role at the company) could be extended, or possibly, depending on the circumstances, my contract be brought to an end.
    I haven't been desrespectful but I get drawn into an argument with this manager as I feel she cannot rationally discuss issues. I'm now worried of even talking to her. During our meeting I said that I understand that a manager has to be listened to and that a company requires a kind of hierarchichal structure. the HR person disagreed saying that things should be done by agreement. That's why I'm pretty confused about the tone of the memo she has sent me now in order to confrim the outcomes of the meeting. This was also carbon copied to the manger in question even though it was only me and the HR person present.
    I would like to know what they are up to? Is this just following steps leading to warnings and then dismissal? I'm sure the manager wants rid of me. Can't she just say that my interactions continue to be disrespectful etc then leading to further disciplinary steps? What should I do? I feel quite vulnerable at the moment.
Page 1
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 22nd May 16, 4:03 PM
    • 2,735 Posts
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    sangie595
    • #2
    • 22nd May 16, 4:03 PM
    • #2
    • 22nd May 16, 4:03 PM
    I have had a couple of disagreements with my manager. I didn't think the disagreements were that serious in nature but she has taken it further and earlier this month I was invited for an informal meeting with HR to discuss concerns they have regarding my conduct. I thought it went very well. Two weeks later, I have received another letter from HR which doesn't seem very nice in tone and starting with how we had discussed oncerns about my conduct when interacting with colleagues. It goes on to say that I should ensure that interactions with colleagues be respectful and appropriate or my prabation period (for a new role at the company) could be extended, or possibly, depending on the circumstances, my contract be brought to an end.
    I haven't been desrespectful but I get drawn into an argument with this manager as I feel she cannot rationally discuss issues. I'm now worried of even talking to her. During our meeting I said that I understand that a manager has to be listened to and that a company requires a kind of hierarchichal structure. the HR person disagreed saying that things should be done by agreement. That's why I'm pretty confused about the tone of the memo she has sent me now in order to confrim the outcomes of the meeting. This was also carbon copied to the manger in question even though it was only me and the HR person present.
    I would like to know what they are up to? Is this just following steps leading to warnings and then dismissal? I'm sure the manager wants rid of me. Can't she just say that my interactions continue to be disrespectful etc then leading to further disciplinary steps? What should I do? I feel quite vulnerable at the moment.
    Originally posted by Ader1
    It's pretty hard to comment since we don't know what it is that they say you have done - you agree that you have had disagreements with your manager, but what does that mean?

    But yes, You have had an informal discussion about your conduct towards your manager and, it would appear, your colleagues. If that concern continues then you will inevitably proceed to one of two things - either a disciplinary, or the termination of your probation (which means, effectively, terminating the job).

    How long have you worked for this company?
    • ohreally
    • By ohreally 22nd May 16, 4:04 PM
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    ohreally
    • #3
    • 22nd May 16, 4:04 PM
    • #3
    • 22nd May 16, 4:04 PM
    Your line manager may feel you've undermined the relationship and their preferred outcome is to have you managed out the door.
    Imagination is a mental faculty that serves as a coping mechanism for those who can't or won't accept reality - unicorns and dragons and wives who don't nag, are all figments of the "imagination".

    Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world.
    • Gavin83
    • By Gavin83 22nd May 16, 4:31 PM
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    Gavin83
    • #4
    • 22nd May 16, 4:31 PM
    • #4
    • 22nd May 16, 4:31 PM
    You might want to ask them to clarify the points raised in the letter as you feel this has gone against what was discussed in the meeting but ultimately you might want to start looking for another job.

    I'm assuming the manager asked you to do something and you disagreed with her methods. Most managers aren't going to appreciate a new employee undermining them, regardless of who's right.
    • Ader1
    • By Ader1 22nd May 16, 4:39 PM
    • 310 Posts
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    Ader1
    • #5
    • 22nd May 16, 4:39 PM
    • #5
    • 22nd May 16, 4:39 PM
    It's pretty hard to comment since we don't know what it is that they say you have done - you agree that you have had disagreements with your manager, but what does that mean?

    But yes, You have had an informal discussion about your conduct towards your manager and, it would appear, your colleagues. If that concern continues then you will inevitably proceed to one of two things - either a disciplinary, or the termination of your probation (which means, effectively, terminating the job).

    How long have you worked for this company?
    Originally posted by sangie595

    I've been at the company for 1.5 years. I started a new role within the company two months ago.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 22nd May 16, 4:41 PM
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    sangie595
    • #6
    • 22nd May 16, 4:41 PM
    • #6
    • 22nd May 16, 4:41 PM
    I've been at the company for 1.5 years. I started a new role within the company two months ago.
    Originally posted by Ader1
    In that case you can be dismissed for almost any reason and there is nothing you can do about it. Get looking for another job. This one probably isn't going to last much longer.
    • Ader1
    • By Ader1 22nd May 16, 4:44 PM
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    Ader1
    • #7
    • 22nd May 16, 4:44 PM
    • #7
    • 22nd May 16, 4:44 PM
    I did apply for another job today. I will be looking from now on. If a new employer wants a reference from this employer then it's unlikely I'll be given a glowing endorsement. I'm between a rock and a hard place. Having said that.....I've had no complaints regarding my work. I am trying to avoid this manager and do whatever she asks of me but I don't think she's very forgiving.

    Are they following some kind of protocol?
    Last edited by Ader1; 22-05-2016 at 5:00 PM.
    • pmduk
    • By pmduk 22nd May 16, 6:49 PM
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    pmduk
    • #8
    • 22nd May 16, 6:49 PM
    • #8
    • 22nd May 16, 6:49 PM
    Having said that.....I've had no complaints regarding my work.
    Originally posted by Ader1
    I think you should consider maintaining good working relations with colleagues and managers an essential part of your work.
    • martinthebandit
    • By martinthebandit 22nd May 16, 6:53 PM
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    martinthebandit
    • #9
    • 22nd May 16, 6:53 PM
    • #9
    • 22nd May 16, 6:53 PM
    I think you should consider maintaining good working relations with colleagues and managers an essential part of your work.
    Originally posted by pmduk
    This, otherwise known as 'keep your gob shut and crack on'
    Politics -
    from the words Poli, meaning many
    and tics meaning blood sucking parasites


    (thanks to Kinky Friedman (or Larry Hardman) for the quote}
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 22nd May 16, 7:00 PM
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    TELLIT01
    Bottom line is that whether you like the way your manager operates or not, they give the orders and you carry them out. There are ways of challenging things and your way clearly isn't working.
    I butted heads with managers plenty of times in my working life, and honestly don't regret doing so. I'm one of those pig headed idiots who will stick to their guns if they are sure they are right. It hasn't always done me any favours, but I can live with that.
    It doesn't alter what I said at the top!
    • pmduk
    • By pmduk 22nd May 16, 7:54 PM
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    pmduk
    This, otherwise known as 'keep your gob shut and crack on'
    Originally posted by martinthebandit
    I prefer to consider it getting on with people you might not like but with whom you share your working life.
    • NewShadow
    • By NewShadow 23rd May 16, 6:47 PM
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    NewShadow
    Bottom line is that whether you like the way your manager operates or not, they give the orders and you carry them out.
    Originally posted by TELLIT01
    I was always of the view, if it's legal, ethical, and safe - Do it.

    There are many I've been told to do over the years - despite the instructed way being slower or giving an inferior product than an alternative I've suggested.

    Ultimately your manager owns your labour while you're at work*. If my boss came in tomorrow and said our team support was sick and I was to spend the day photocopying and filing - That's what he's paying me to do.

    As has been said - you can suggest, but ultimately it's not your decision.


    (*Allowing a caveat for dignity at work and so on...)
    If you know something's wrong, and you won't stand up because you're scared - tell me and I'll stand with you.

    If you won't stand because you can't be bothered... I don't even want to know you.

    21.1mi May, 16.3mi Jun,18.9mi Jul,
    • Ader1
    • By Ader1 24th May 16, 9:47 PM
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    Ader1
    Some of what I was being asked to do wasn't legal. I argued against it.

    Somebody at work recommended I tape my conversations with her.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 24th May 16, 10:07 PM
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    sangie595
    Some of what I was being asked to do wasn't legal. I argued against it.

    Somebody at work recommended I tape my conversations with her.
    Originally posted by Ader1
    So (a) when you spoke to HR, you told them this?, and (b) that also applies to why you don't appear to get on with colleagues?
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 24th May 16, 10:30 PM
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    motorguy
    Some of what I was being asked to do wasn't legal. I argued against it.

    Somebody at work recommended I tape my conversations with her.
    Originally posted by Ader1
    I dont believe you can legally tape conversations with colleagues without them being aware you are doing so.

    It sounds like the manager feels you are undermining them - possibly in front of other colleagues?

    If you have absolute concerns about the legality about things being proposed, then you might want to bring this to your manager in a 1:1 environment in the first instance, and then to their manager if you have grave concerns.
    Regards

    Paul
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 25th May 16, 8:13 AM
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    TELLIT01
    Some of what I was being asked to do wasn't legal. I argued against it.
    Originally posted by Ader1
    If what you were being asked to do is illegal it will have come out during discussion with HR. What has their reaction been?
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 25th May 16, 9:46 AM
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    Guest101
    I dont believe you can legally tape conversations with colleagues without them being aware you are doing so.

    It sounds like the manager feels you are undermining them - possibly in front of other colleagues?

    If you have absolute concerns about the legality about things being proposed, then you might want to bring this to your manager in a 1:1 environment in the first instance, and then to their manager if you have grave concerns.
    Originally posted by motorguy
    You can.


    It's just a record of what was said. Pay a professional transcription service to transcribe for any future court / tribunal / police / whatever reasons.
    • DKLS
    • By DKLS 25th May 16, 10:23 AM
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    DKLS
    If you continue to to stick your head above the parapet it will get shot off.

    Keep your head down and do your work, when you meet hr, play the game, tug your forelock, apologise, promise you will build better working relationships and work on your communication skills blah blah, slap on the wrist and back to work.
    • Ader1
    • By Ader1 16th Oct 16, 5:54 PM
    • 310 Posts
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    Ader1
    Well, a couple of weeks ago I had a meeting with the same HR lady and manager in order to review my trial period for the new role I had within the company. The had five points where they weren't satisfied with my performance. They were pretty petty really but they said that I wasn't achieving the high standards expected of the company. I was truly shocked when they told me they would be terminating my contract and gave me the option to resign which I did. The funny thing is that the manager was quite nice to me the preceeding 5 weeks. I think she just knew my time was almost up. Game set and match as they say. But all the while she was collecting 'evidence' about my under-performance. I'm told now that she's telling my old colleagues that they went into the meeting intending to extend my trial period but that my attitude convinced them not to offer me the extension. My ex-colleagues have tended to side with me. She also asked a guy who I am friendly with if I had found work. She's trying to pretend she is concerned. Anyway, that's the end of that.

    I'm now unemployed and going for other posts and it says on my CV that I finished working at this company on 30th September. How should I tackle the question about why I left my old post without another job to go to? Any ideas? Thanks.
    • Ader1
    • By Ader1 16th Oct 16, 5:57 PM
    • 310 Posts
    • 44 Thanks
    Ader1
    If what you were being asked to do is illegal it will have come out during discussion with HR. What has their reaction been?
    Originally posted by TELLIT01
    I didn't mention it. I should have. Anyway, I know she would have denied it. My word against hers.
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