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  • FIRST POST
    • Herbalus
    • By Herbalus 5th May 16, 10:24 PM
    • 1,833Posts
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    Herbalus
    Greenwich foot tunnel - bikes
    • #1
    • 5th May 16, 10:24 PM
    Greenwich foot tunnel - bikes 5th May 16 at 10:24 PM
    I ventured in to the Greenwich foot tunnel for the first time this week, and there are more "no cycling" signs than current Leicester City fans in the whole of England (ok, slight exaggeration but you get the point).

    But still a good 70% of people jump on their bikes as soon as they're out of the lift.

    And it's not as if cycle shoes seem to be a factor: I understand that reason as I know how awkward it can be to walk in those, but I saw two people running in them.

    Are the signs there enforceable or are there penalties? Somebody would make a fortune with spot fines.
Page 1
    • Hutchch0920
    • By Hutchch0920 5th May 16, 10:45 PM
    • 276 Posts
    • 467 Thanks
    Hutchch0920
    • #2
    • 5th May 16, 10:45 PM
    • #2
    • 5th May 16, 10:45 PM
    I've cycled through there a couple of times. I don't see a problem with it if you are cycling responsibly ie not scaring or taking out pedestrians en route. I assume it has a blanket ban on it because the few spoil it for the many by hurtling through it at great speed endangering other users.
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    • Bollotom
    • By Bollotom 6th May 16, 12:38 AM
    • 926 Posts
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    Bollotom
    • #3
    • 6th May 16, 12:38 AM
    • #3
    • 6th May 16, 12:38 AM
    It's a ban because the bye-laws say so. Nothing to do because the few spoil it for the many. But as so many go through red lights, on the pavement etc, is it any surprise?

    Tin foil hat on. lmao.
    • JackieO
    • By JackieO 6th May 16, 8:15 AM
    • 15,231 Posts
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    JackieO
    • #4
    • 6th May 16, 8:15 AM
    • #4
    • 6th May 16, 8:15 AM
    ah the great and wonderful 'pipe' of my youth.I like most London children who lived nearby loved to run and whoop and make as much noise as possible running through the 'pipe' Takes me back well over 60 years .Nowadays I could neither run nor whoop .Back then kids had few pleasures in life especially after WW2 and that was one of them ,along with riding the free Woolwich ferry across the river to the strange land on the other side Bikes ? we certainly couldn't afford those luxuries shanks pony got my generation around
    Quot Libra,Quam Breve Tempus.
    • fred246
    • By fred246 7th May 16, 10:51 PM
    • 845 Posts
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    fred246
    • #5
    • 7th May 16, 10:51 PM
    • #5
    • 7th May 16, 10:51 PM
    Where I live the path would be split into two. Pedestrians on one side and cyclists on the other. The pedestrians would then walk all over the cycle path and the cyclists would then have to go on the pedestrian path to get past them. I always wonder if there's some science behind the reason why pedestrians always seem to walk on the cycle path.
    • Mr_Singleton
    • By Mr_Singleton 8th May 16, 9:58 AM
    • 664 Posts
    • 1,449 Thanks
    Mr_Singleton
    • #6
    • 8th May 16, 9:58 AM
    • #6
    • 8th May 16, 9:58 AM
    I don't see a problem with it if you are cycling responsibly ie not scaring or taking out pedestrians en route.
    Originally posted by Hutchch0920
    Typical cyclist.... screw everyone else I'm alright.
    • brat
    • By brat 8th May 16, 8:51 PM
    • 2,429 Posts
    • 3,079 Thanks
    brat
    • #7
    • 8th May 16, 8:51 PM
    • #7
    • 8th May 16, 8:51 PM
    Typical cyclist.... screw everyone else I'm alright.
    Originally posted by Mr_Singleton
    Why and how is everyone being screwed? If you want to make worthwhile comment, try engaging your brain first.
    Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler.
    • Herbalus
    • By Herbalus 9th May 16, 9:58 PM
    • 1,833 Posts
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    Herbalus
    • #8
    • 9th May 16, 9:58 PM
    • #8
    • 9th May 16, 9:58 PM
    I've cycled through there a couple of times. I don't see a problem with it if you are cycling responsibly ie not scaring or taking out pedestrians en route. I assume it has a blanket ban on it because the few spoil it for the many by hurtling through it at great speed endangering other users.
    Originally posted by Hutchch0920
    I agree with your sentiment, but in the foot tunnel there isn't a lot of space. You could liken it to walking in a road of very slow moving traffic. There's no danger if you're walking between two lines of moving traffic that's going in a straight line at 3 mph, but most people would still find it disconcerting.

    There isn't enough space to pass somebody going in the same direction if somebody is coming the other way. I imagine most people walking would find it a bit unsettling if a cyclist passed them within a meter at even 10mph.
    • elverson
    • By elverson 10th May 16, 12:51 PM
    • 656 Posts
    • 392 Thanks
    elverson
    • #9
    • 10th May 16, 12:51 PM
    • #9
    • 10th May 16, 12:51 PM
    In the near future cycling will be allowed in both tunnels during quiet periods:

    http://futurecities.ethosvo.org/case-study-greenwich-and-woolwich-foot-tunnel/
    • Herbalus
    • By Herbalus 10th May 16, 10:31 PM
    • 1,833 Posts
    • 1,440 Thanks
    Herbalus
    That sounds like a sensible plan. Although you could argue that if the pedestrian density gets high, cycling will be impossible as there isn't enough space!
    • Yolina
    • By Yolina 11th May 16, 1:13 PM
    • 2,213 Posts
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    Yolina
    I'm on the Islands Gardens side and I've used the foot tunnel quite often during the past 16 years or so... it's fairly narrow (you can fit about 4 people side by side - and it's narrower at the northern end due to repairs after ww2 bomb damage) It really isn't suited for shared cyclist/pedestrian traffic. I've regularly seen loony cyclists for whom walking the length of the tunnel is obviously beneath them and who couldn't care less about pedestrians. It gets really busy at times, between the locals and the tourists
    Last edited by Yolina; 11-05-2016 at 1:22 PM.
    Now free from the incompetence of vodafail
    • Retrogamer
    • By Retrogamer 11th May 16, 1:19 PM
    • 3,767 Posts
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    Retrogamer
    Where I live the path would be split into two. Pedestrians on one side and cyclists on the other. The pedestrians would then walk all over the cycle path and the cyclists would then have to go on the pedestrian path to get past them. I always wonder if there's some science behind the reason why pedestrians always seem to walk on the cycle path.
    Originally posted by fred246
    There's a section of cycle route near me where it's exactly that. One side of the path is green with signs before entering the tunnel saying cyclists and pictures of white bicycles painted on the path at intervals.

    The other side is red and for pedestrians and both are seperated by a thick white line.

    I've been cycling it for years now and not once have i been able to cycle down it and not have to get out the way of a pedestrian in the wrong side. Even if it's dead and only a couple of people walking there, they walk on the cyclists side.

    Some even get abusive when you advise them it's only for cyclists.

    I'm sure not all pedestrians are idiots though and only a few ruin it for the majority
    • benjus
    • By benjus 16th May 16, 11:18 AM
    • 4,964 Posts
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    benjus
    I used the Greenwich Foot Tunnel regularly from about 2007 to 2014 as part of my commute to Canary Wharf. I didn't cycle through the tunnel - I walked my bike through.

    Back in the days when there were lift attendants, few people cycled as they would be told they weren't welcome in the lift and to carry their bike up the stairs. Quite a few people "scooted", with a foot on one pedal - this was regarded as being more acceptable as you just have to hop off the pedal if you need to stop and switch back to walking.

    However, since the lifts were refurbished and the lift attendants removed, almost everyone seems to cycle through the tunnel. I don't know if there have been any accidents down there, but it doesn't feel safe - some people go pretty fast, and it's a very confined space.
    Let's settle this like gentlemen: armed with heavy sticks
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    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 7th Sep 17, 5:57 PM
    • 292 Posts
    • 260 Thanks
    scd3scd4
    The fine is set at £1..........the by laws will soon be changed to allow cycling. We won. ;-]
    • jon81uk
    • By jon81uk 8th Sep 17, 10:19 AM
    • 758 Posts
    • 481 Thanks
    jon81uk
    The fine is set at £1..........the by laws will soon be changed to allow cycling. We won. ;-]
    Originally posted by scd3scd4
    Its actually looking unlikely the by-laws will be changed, Tower Hamlets council is against the change

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/plans-to-break-ban-on-cyclists-using-greenwich-foot-tunnel-sparks-crossriver-row-a3624111.html

    Surely if the fines are too small to be worth applying, it would be better to increase the fine amounts?
    • maisie cat
    • By maisie cat 8th Sep 17, 10:29 AM
    • 222 Posts
    • 264 Thanks
    maisie cat
    I was thinking the same thing
    ah the great and wonderful 'pipe' of my youth.I like most London children who lived nearby loved to run and whoop and make as much noise as possible running through the 'pipe' Takes me back well over 60 years .Nowadays I could neither run nor whoop .Back then kids had few pleasures in life especially after WW2 and that was one of them ,along with riding the free Woolwich ferry across the river to the strange land on the other side Bikes ? we certainly couldn't afford those luxuries shanks pony got my generation around
    Originally posted by JackieO
    I was just thinking the same! Saturday free entertainment, getting the bus, my dad was a bus driver and we'd try to get his bus so we didn't have to pay. Then deciding whether to get off at the ferry and ride across or stay on until Greenwich for the tunnel.
    An alternative was going onto the Woolwich arsenal land and digging up old glass bottles, such good memories!
    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 8th Sep 17, 1:01 PM
    • 292 Posts
    • 260 Thanks
    scd3scd4
    Its actually looking unlikely the by-laws will be changed, Tower Hamlets council is against the change

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/plans-to-break-ban-on-cyclists-using-greenwich-foot-tunnel-sparks-crossriver-row-a3624111.html

    Surely if the fines are too small to be worth applying, it would be better to increase the fine amounts?
    Originally posted by jon81uk

    http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/15429724.You_will_soon_be_able_to_legally_cycle_th rough_Woolwich_Foot_Tunnel/


    I think they will. They have been monitoring it for a while now and there are notices up saying they are looking to change the by-laws right at this moment.

    If they don't, then people will continue to cycle like they have been doing. I have been using it most days for 4 years. There is little they can do to stop it so its makes sense to try and manage it safely. They need the same agreement to increase the fine. So if they dont agree then thats not going to happen.

    Agree or don't agree. People are cycling through and from what I see it is nearly all.
    Last edited by scd3scd4; 08-09-2017 at 1:06 PM.
    • jack_pott
    • By jack_pott 8th Sep 17, 1:20 PM
    • 4,013 Posts
    • 5,083 Thanks
    jack_pott
    It's a ban because the bye-laws say so. Nothing to do because the few spoil it for the many.
    Originally posted by Bollotom
    That's like arguing that theft is illegal because it's illegal, and nothing to do with theft being socially and economically destructive.

    Laws are a means to an end, not an end in themselves.
    • Hutchch0920
    • By Hutchch0920 8th Sep 17, 1:30 PM
    • 276 Posts
    • 467 Thanks
    Hutchch0920
    I've cycled through it a couple of times, it's far to far to walk in metal cleats - painfully so.

    I don't see the problem if you cycle through it slowly and carefully, giving way to pedestrians wherever necessary.
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    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 8th Sep 17, 1:34 PM
    • 292 Posts
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    scd3scd4
    I've cycled through it a couple of times, it's far to far to walk in metal cleats - painfully so.

    I don't see the problem if you cycle through it slowly and carefully, giving way to pedestrians wherever necessary.
    Originally posted by Hutchch0920

    I agree in part. I am in it most morning at about 5.30.........very few people..........few more at 18.45 Mon-Fri.

    Sat or Sun in the summer you do need to be more careful. Lots of children, some in prams and some pets.
    Last edited by scd3scd4; 08-09-2017 at 1:51 PM.
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