Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • RockandGrohl
    • By RockandGrohl 1st May 16, 7:50 PM
    • 45Posts
    • 10Thanks
    RockandGrohl
    Royal Mail lost my tax-return, I've now got a bill for 820 + XX every day.
    • #1
    • 1st May 16, 7:50 PM
    Royal Mail lost my tax-return, I've now got a bill for 820 + XX every day. 1st May 16 at 7:50 PM
    Hello all,

    I recently received a double-whammy bill of 2X100 for tax-returns that weren't filled in for my business + self-assessment.

    To cut a long story short, I started a company, but didn't finalise the steps with companies house (you get a login code on the gateway) I later rang up to freeze the business (meaning I don't have to fill in tax-returns as you save the business as not trading or something like that.

    I haven't spent or earned a single penny on the business.


    I got 2 bills for 100 and rang up HMRC to see if they can cancel them. This is a lot of money for me. I was told I needed to fill in a zero-value tax return and then fill in the attached form to dispute the late-return charge. I filled in the form as stated alongside my tax-return, copied the documents with a photocopier and sent the originals with attached explanation of why my tax return is late to HMRC on the given address, which I confirmed with multiple telephone operators at HMRC was definitely the correct address to send to.

    I paid for Recorded Signed for Delivery with Royal Mail, and have the tracking code along with the saved postage address.

    Everything was filled out clearly and correctly.

    I received an email asking me to sign in to HMRC as I have received a self-assessment return reminded for the new year (so clearly they still haven't updated my F'ing business as NOT IN USE)

    When I logged in I saw that I have 32 days remaining to pay 820.00 on my tax return which I wrote the letter and filled the form in for. WHAT?!

    So I checked the tracking number with Royal Mail and it says there is no tracking information.

    What can I do about this? The charge is raising every single day, I am worried that Royal Mail will only compensate to a certain amount if HMRC don't relinquish the charge... I have a copy of the form + letter I sent to them for both my individual and business account and I definitely have proof of postage.

    Thanks for all the help.
Page 1
    • POPPYOSCAR
    • By POPPYOSCAR 1st May 16, 7:59 PM
    • 10,895 Posts
    • 22,845 Thanks
    POPPYOSCAR
    • #2
    • 1st May 16, 7:59 PM
    • #2
    • 1st May 16, 7:59 PM
    Ring HMRC, explain and say you have proof of postage.
    • Ben8282
    • By Ben8282 1st May 16, 8:08 PM
    • 2,071 Posts
    • 914 Thanks
    Ben8282
    • #3
    • 1st May 16, 8:08 PM
    • #3
    • 1st May 16, 8:08 PM
    The 820 does not relate to the 2 X 100 charge. It relates to the tax you have to pay which is presumably long overdue. Self assessment tax is payable in Jan/Jul ....
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 1st May 16, 8:13 PM
    • 18,781 Posts
    • 14,486 Thanks
    agrinnall
    • #4
    • 1st May 16, 8:13 PM
    • #4
    • 1st May 16, 8:13 PM
    What does this have to do with banking? You should ask for it to be moved to the Cutting Tax board.
    • molerat
    • By molerat 2nd May 16, 9:09 AM
    • 17,485 Posts
    • 11,720 Thanks
    molerat
    • #5
    • 2nd May 16, 9:09 AM
    • #5
    • 2nd May 16, 9:09 AM
    Shot yourself in the foot using expensive signed for, all that gives you is 50 compensation instead of the normal 20, as there is proof it has not been delivered. If you had just used a free certificate of posting that is proof enough for the courts that it was delivered 2 days later.
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk/donations.html
    • custardy
    • By custardy 2nd May 16, 9:14 AM
    • 32,772 Posts
    • 27,506 Thanks
    custardy
    • #6
    • 2nd May 16, 9:14 AM
    • #6
    • 2nd May 16, 9:14 AM
    Hello all,

    I recently received a double-whammy bill of 2X100 for tax-returns that weren't filled in for my business + self-assessment.

    To cut a long story short, I started a company, but didn't finalise the steps with companies house (you get a login code on the gateway) I later rang up to freeze the business (meaning I don't have to fill in tax-returns as you save the business as not trading or something like that.

    I haven't spent or earned a single penny on the business.


    I got 2 bills for 100 and rang up HMRC to see if they can cancel them. This is a lot of money for me. I was told I needed to fill in a zero-value tax return and then fill in the attached form to dispute the late-return charge. I filled in the form as stated alongside my tax-return, copied the documents with a photocopier and sent the originals with attached explanation of why my tax return is late to HMRC on the given address, which I confirmed with multiple telephone operators at HMRC was definitely the correct address to send to.

    I paid for Recorded Signed for Delivery with Royal Mail, and have the tracking code along with the saved postage address.

    Everything was filled out clearly and correctly.

    I received an email asking me to sign in to HMRC as I have received a self-assessment return reminded for the new year (so clearly they still haven't updated my F'ing business as NOT IN USE)

    When I logged in I saw that I have 32 days remaining to pay 820.00 on my tax return which I wrote the letter and filled the form in for. WHAT?!

    So I checked the tracking number with Royal Mail and it says there is no tracking information.

    What can I do about this? The charge is raising every single day, I am worried that Royal Mail will only compensate to a certain amount if HMRC don't relinquish the charge... I have a copy of the form + letter I sent to them for both my individual and business account and I definitely have proof of postage.

    Thanks for all the help.
    Originally posted by RockandGrohl
    RM wont be compensating you for anything bar the loss of the letter.
    For this type of thing (as posted) a certificate of posting does the job.
    Or pay for Special Delivery. It not so much the cost of the service,but the potential fall out costs.
    • SuperHan
    • By SuperHan 2nd May 16, 9:43 AM
    • 1,994 Posts
    • 1,161 Thanks
    SuperHan
    • #7
    • 2nd May 16, 9:43 AM
    • #7
    • 2nd May 16, 9:43 AM
    820 isn't the late fee, the late fee is 200, plus 20 for each company as you're now only 2 days in to the 10 per day charge.

    You need to look further in to what the charge is before you start disputing it.
    • Bravestar
    • By Bravestar 2nd May 16, 10:24 AM
    • 84 Posts
    • 53 Thanks
    Bravestar
    • #8
    • 2nd May 16, 10:24 AM
    • #8
    • 2nd May 16, 10:24 AM
    Hello all,

    I recently received a double-whammy bill of 2X100 for tax-returns that weren't filled in for my business + self-assessment.

    To cut a long story short, I started a company, but didn't finalise the steps with companies house (you get a login code on the gateway) I later rang up to freeze the business (meaning I don't have to fill in tax-returns as you save the business as not trading or something like that.

    I haven't spent or earned a single penny on the business.


    I got 2 bills for 100 and rang up HMRC to see if they can cancel them. This is a lot of money for me. I was told I needed to fill in a zero-value tax return and then fill in the attached form to dispute the late-return charge. I filled in the form as stated alongside my tax-return, copied the documents with a photocopier and sent the originals with attached explanation of why my tax return is late to HMRC on the given address, which I confirmed with multiple telephone operators at HMRC was definitely the correct address to send to.

    I paid for Recorded Signed for Delivery with Royal Mail, and have the tracking code along with the saved postage address.

    Everything was filled out clearly and correctly.

    I received an email asking me to sign in to HMRC as I have received a self-assessment return reminded for the new year (so clearly they still haven't updated my F'ing business as NOT IN USE)

    When I logged in I saw that I have 32 days remaining to pay 820.00 on my tax return which I wrote the letter and filled the form in for. WHAT?!

    So I checked the tracking number with Royal Mail and it says there is no tracking information.

    What can I do about this? The charge is raising every single day, I am worried that Royal Mail will only compensate to a certain amount if HMRC don't relinquish the charge... I have a copy of the form + letter I sent to them for both my individual and business account and I definitely have proof of postage.

    Thanks for all the help.
    Originally posted by RockandGrohl
    If one were to accept your account (which I don't ), then it would appear you would have a "reasonable excuse" for appealing the late payment charges.

    6. Reasonable excuses

    You can appeal against some penalties if you have a reasonable excuse, eg for your return or payment being late.
    What may count as a reasonable excuse

    A reasonable excuse is normally something unexpected or outside your control that stopped you meeting a tax obligation, eg:



    ...

    • postal delays that you couldn’t have predicted
    https://www.gov.uk/tax-appeals/reasonable-excuses

    I don't believe anyone, on any view point, would agree your inference that your allegation that RM had lost your mail has directly incurred you in the total 820 + XX every day costs.

    What I don't understand, however is what the additional, 620 relates to as it cannot be a tax bill if, as you state "I haven't spent or earned a single penny on the business."

    I too suggest you refer to the tax demand you have received to establish the breakdown of the demand, and if you still don't understand it, then try speaking first with HMRC. If that still fails to clarify the situation, then you should seek independent, expert advice.

    Furthermore, you on your own admission have set up two companies. When you set these up, HMRC write (not email or online) to you at the registered office to ask about your intentions, to establish whether or not you will be required to submit a corporation tax return (e.g. if the companies are to remain dormant, then HMRC will not need extra work load processing zero return corportaion tax returns)
    So either uou didn't receive that either, or if you did, you either failed to reply or that reply was also lost by RM, or the reply sent meant you would need to file a corporation tax return.

    Did you receive the demand to file a corporation tax return (that would typically be sent about 12 months before filing date, and worst case scenario is 3 months before), or did that go missing too?

    Corporation tax returns have to be sent online.
    You can only use the paper form (CT600) if you’re unable to file online because you have a reasonable excuse.
    https://www.gov.uk/file-your-company-accounts-and-tax-return

    So what was your reasonable excuse?

    What have you done about filing accounts with Companies House?
    Those must be sent online ... and when you do, then this allows you to file your tax return online with HMRC too.
    Last edited by Bravestar; 02-05-2016 at 10:27 AM.
    • MABLE
    • By MABLE 2nd May 16, 10:28 AM
    • 3,349 Posts
    • 1,775 Thanks
    MABLE
    • #9
    • 2nd May 16, 10:28 AM
    • #9
    • 2nd May 16, 10:28 AM
    Hello all,

    I recently received a double-whammy bill of 2X100 for tax-returns that weren't filled in for my business + self-assessment.

    To cut a long story short, I started a company, but didn't finalise the steps with companies house (you get a login code on the gateway) I later rang up to freeze the business (meaning I don't have to fill in tax-returns as you save the business as not trading or something like that.

    I haven't spent or earned a single penny on the business.


    I got 2 bills for 100 and rang up HMRC to see if they can cancel them. This is a lot of money for me. I was told I needed to fill in a zero-value tax return and then fill in the attached form to dispute the late-return charge. I filled in the form as stated alongside my tax-return, copied the documents with a photocopier and sent the originals with attached explanation of why my tax return is late to HMRC on the given address, which I confirmed with multiple telephone operators at HMRC was definitely the correct address to send to.

    I paid for Recorded Signed for Delivery with Royal Mail, and have the tracking code along with the saved postage address.

    Everything was filled out clearly and correctly.

    I received an email asking me to sign in to HMRC as I have received a self-assessment return reminded for the new year (so clearly they still haven't updated my F'ing business as NOT IN USE)

    When I logged in I saw that I have 32 days remaining to pay 820.00 on my tax return which I wrote the letter and filled the form in for. WHAT?!

    So I checked the tracking number with Royal Mail and it says there is no tracking information.

    What can I do about this? The charge is raising every single day, I am worried that Royal Mail will only compensate to a certain amount if HMRC don't relinquish the charge... I have a copy of the form + letter I sent to them for both my individual and business account and I definitely have proof of postage.

    Thanks for all the help.
    Originally posted by RockandGrohl
    In future send by Special Delivery and pay the extra for consequential loss.
    • Spidernick
    • By Spidernick 2nd May 16, 10:56 AM
    • 2,614 Posts
    • 4,956 Thanks
    Spidernick
    I'm not sure of the procedures for company filing, but to my mind paper filing your SA tax return is like the hassle of going to the Post Office to get your Vehicle Excise Duty - I really don't understand why anyone who can file on-line doesn't do so.

    As the OP has discovered HMRC loses things in the post (quite regularly in fact) which patently doesn't happen when filing on line and whether you are in Sydney or Sydenham the acknowledgement by HMRC is usually within a matter of minutes.
    'I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like my father. Not screaming and terrified like his passengers.' (Bob Monkhouse).

    Sky? Believe in better.

    Note: win, draw or lose (not 'loose' - opposite of tight!)
    • RockandGrohl
    • By RockandGrohl 9th May 16, 11:30 PM
    • 45 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    RockandGrohl
    820 isn't the late fee, the late fee is 200, plus 20 for each company as you're now only 2 days in to the 10 per day charge.

    You need to look further in to what the charge is before you start disputing it.
    Originally posted by SuperHan
    It appears our mail was crossed, as I received the email, looked into the charge, then the very next day I got a letter from a T Liu Assistant Officer at HMRC who has cancelled the late filing penalty from the 2014-2015 Self Assessment Tax return.

    This now shows under HMRC website:

    Due Date Description Amount ()
    25 Mar 2016 Late filing penalty (adj) 0.00
    25 Mar 2016 Partnership late filing penalty 2665764587 (adj) 0.00
    02 Jun 2016 Partnership daily penalty 2665764587 820.00


    Partnership Daily Penalty... 820...

    Is it possible they cancelled my charge for Self-Assessment, but not the Partnership one?


    I need to contact HMRC about this... I'd prefer to speak to this T Liu but will have to go through phone I assume.


    What I'm confused about is why the 820 charge sticks. I didn't pay the 100x2 charge because I disputed it. I successfully disputed it, yet the charge still remains.
    Last edited by RockandGrohl; 09-05-2016 at 11:34 PM.
    • RockandGrohl
    • By RockandGrohl 9th May 16, 11:35 PM
    • 45 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    RockandGrohl
    The 820 does not relate to the 2 X 100 charge. It relates to the tax you have to pay which is presumably long overdue. Self assessment tax is payable in Jan/Jul ....
    Originally posted by Ben8282
    Are you absolutely sure? It is a 0 tax return so there should be no payable tax?
    • SuperHan
    • By SuperHan 10th May 16, 6:23 PM
    • 1,994 Posts
    • 1,161 Thanks
    SuperHan
    Are you absolutely sure? It is a 0 tax return so there should be no payable tax?
    Originally posted by RockandGrohl

    You're right - I was mistaken earlier (as is the other poster, I think).


    There's an earlier deadline for postal returns, so you will be in the charge per day period, and that's where the 820 will come from ( 2x100 plus daily fees).


    I'd ring HMRC and see what's going on. Early in the morning is the best time to get them, or just before they're closing. Any time in the middle of the day and you can be on hold for a long time.
    • RockandGrohl
    • By RockandGrohl 22nd May 16, 11:00 PM
    • 45 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    RockandGrohl
    You're right - I was mistaken earlier (as is the other poster, I think).


    There's an earlier deadline for postal returns, so you will be in the charge per day period, and that's where the 820 will come from ( 2x100 plus daily fees).


    I'd ring HMRC and see what's going on. Early in the morning is the best time to get them, or just before they're closing. Any time in the middle of the day and you can be on hold for a long time.
    Originally posted by SuperHan

    Hi, yes if I go to the HMRC website, it just shows a bill of 820, but there's a really well hidden link to a separate HMRC site that shows it being the daily penalty for the Partnership Tax Return being filed late.

    So here's the lowdown.

    Got 2 notices at the same time, one for SA and one for Partnership, both 100 for late filing of tax return.

    I send my explanation for BOTH returns in one envelope to the address given, which is what I was instructed by the HMRC office when I rang them (help with my tax return) This was will before the deadline for accruing additional charges.

    They then cancelled the 2X 100 debt. But the 820 still remains.

    The 820 is a charge that is only in place should the 100 penalty not be paid.

    The 100 does not have to be paid. It has been cancelled. Shouldn't the 820 be cancelled also? Both tax returns were sent in at the same time.

    "3 months late – a daily penalty of 10 a day for 82 days. This is for the period from 01 February 2016 (3 months after the paper tax return deadline) to 22 April 2016 (the date we received the Partnership Tax return)."

    This is absolute !!!!!!!!, I sent the Tax return in FEBRUARY 2016, how could it only have got there in freaking APRIL?!

    Because of this I'm now nearly a thousand pounds in the hole??? WOW.
    Last edited by RockandGrohl; 22-05-2016 at 11:17 PM.
    • soolin
    • By soolin 23rd May 16, 7:45 AM
    • 59,604 Posts
    • 42,298 Thanks
    soolin
    As has been said, paper returns have to be completed and sent by 31st October , so by spring this year you were already into your daily penalty.

    A nil tax return is still a tax return for which penalties can be incurred, even if tax is not payable. A tax return is a tax return and even if it shows no income needs to be completed within the HMRC timeframe.
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
    New to Forum? Guide
    • moremore
    • By moremore 16th Mar 17, 7:10 AM
    • 427 Posts
    • 102 Thanks
    moremore
    RM wont be compensating you for anything bar the loss of the letter.
    For this type of thing (as posted) a certificate of posting does the job.
    Or pay for Special Delivery. It not so much the cost of the service,but the potential fall out costs.
    Originally posted by custardy
    Is there a postal address for HMRC? I cannot log in on my computer as it keep timing out, broadband not good, and HMRC website does recognise my personal tax reference. I need to reply to for last late assessment and want to do this by letter.
    I phoned them 3 days ago and got email back saying the will respond within 2 days but it has gone over that time now. I feel best option is to post it to them. I am not sure what postal address to put on letter for them to get it.
    • custardy
    • By custardy 16th Mar 17, 8:05 AM
    • 32,772 Posts
    • 27,506 Thanks
    custardy
    Is there a postal address for HMRC? I cannot log in on my computer as it keep timing out, broadband not good, and HMRC website does recognise my personal tax reference. I need to reply to for last late assessment and want to do this by letter.
    I phoned them 3 days ago and got email back saying the will respond within 2 days but it has gone over that time now. I feel best option is to post it to them. I am not sure what postal address to put on letter for them to get it.
    Originally posted by moremore
    https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-revenue-customs/contact/income-tax-enquiries-for-individuals-pensioners-and-employees
    • firefox1956
    • By firefox1956 16th Mar 17, 8:15 AM
    • 1,382 Posts
    • 791 Thanks
    firefox1956
    @ OP.....
    I would seriously consider getting yourself an accountant.
    This would have been sorted weeks ago !!
    HTH
    • TadleyBaggie
    • By TadleyBaggie 16th Mar 17, 9:02 AM
    • 2,482 Posts
    • 1,817 Thanks
    TadleyBaggie
    This would have been sorted weeks ago !!
    Originally posted by firefox1956
    It probably was, the 10 month old thread got resurrected for no good reason.
    • mt99
    • By mt99 16th Mar 17, 12:51 PM
    • 453 Posts
    • 220 Thanks
    mt99
    I am sure you have seen this:


    http://taxaid.org.uk/guides/taxpayers/tax-returns/late-tax-returns


    Penalties for late filing

    1. You will be charged a penalty, even if you do not owe any tax.
    2. If you miss the filing dates of 31 October following the end of the tax year (for paper returns) or 31 January next following (for on-line submission), you will be charged a penalty of 100, and this will not be refunded, even if no tax is owing. Eg. tax returns for the year to 5 April 2016, should be filed on paper by 31 October 2016, or on-line by 31 January 2017
    3. If you are three months late, you will be charged a daily penalty of 10 per day, up to a maximum of 900
    4. If you are six months late there will be a penalty of 300 (or 5% of the tax owing if this is greater)
    5. If you are 12 months late, you will be charged another 300 (or 5% of the tax owing if this is greater). In exceptional circumstances a higher penalty of up to 100% of the tax due is possible
    If you are in a business partnership the penalties apply both to the late submission of the partnership return and to the individual partners returns.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

1,127Posts Today

6,973Users online

Martin's Twitter