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  • FIRST POST
    • RBS_Sucks
    • By RBS_Sucks 29th Apr 16, 8:38 PM
    • 49Posts
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    RBS_Sucks
    What can I do when RBS refuse to remove a late payment from credit profile?
    • #1
    • 29th Apr 16, 8:38 PM
    What can I do when RBS refuse to remove a late payment from credit profile? 29th Apr 16 at 8:38 PM
    Hi everyone,

    I'm hoping I can find some good advice here.

    I've ended up with a late payment logged on my credit profile. I make sure funds go into a bank account each month from my primary account which then covers all my direct debits as well as the minimum payment for my credit cards. As I own my own business I use my credit cards a lot especially for bigger transactions such as international transaction which offers me a bit more security. My limit is £12,500 however for some reason RBS let this go upto just under £14,500 which I think is ridiculous but I didn't know I was over my limit as I complete so many transactions. The problem arose when they tried to take the difference between my limit as well as the minimum payment amount which I wasn't aware they would do and wasn't expecting so correct funds quite simply weren't available in that specific account.

    After speaking to the complaints team (Hi Jobsworth, I hope you're well) they tell me they won't remove the mark from my credit profile and that it's in their terms and conditions that they can do this. This is actually not true but they simply won't listen to my complaint and told me to contact the Ombudsman if I don't like their response. I spoke to both an advisor of which their attitude is astonishing and I can only assume they forgot they were speaking to a customer rather than a rodent.

    I've went over the terms and conditions with a tooth comb and the defence they use is that a part says if you go over your credit limit there is a £12 charge. Surely the purpose of setting a credit limit is that you cannot go over and to create matters like this? The defence they used was that what if it was an emergency and I couldn't get home however surely a small amount would be required and not the best part of £2000 as was allowed to happen.

    Further to this, the minimum payment on my terms and conditions states to be either 2.25% of the balance or £5, whichever is greater. They tried to take the £2000 as well as the 2.25% which is more than the agreement states.

    Either way I feel they have broken the terms of the agreement and are responsible for this matter happening yet they refuse to accept this and tell me they won't falsify my credit profile. The mannerism of both these members of staff was absolutely ridiculous to the point the manager disconnected the call rather than addressing my concerns as she could not answer my questions which I believe to be very valid. I was very calm and made sure to be polite throughout so I do not feel she had any reason to do this other than being stubborn over a decision which was made and not having the answers to some very valid questions.

    Further to this, the original advisor told me he had made his final decision and that I would now have to go to the Ombudsman however he repeatedly advised he does not have the terms and conditions to look at so couldn't comment on certain things. How could he possibly come to a final decision without having all facts in front of him. When I advised him of this he put me on hold for quite some time of which he 'claimed' to now have read them however we could not read any of the terms as shown on documentation so I believe this to be a lie.

    For the record, I don't think I'm blameless as I should've monitored by accounts better however I put in procedures to ensure all my bills were covered each month (with slightly more in case of additional charges) however I don't feel the bank have acted fairly here and I believe there terms and conditions do not comply with the actions they've taken.

    A credit limit to a standard person would imply that you could not exceed this amount therefore by not allowing this then the correct amount would've been available as per our contract.

    If for any reason the above was not the case then they should only have taken 2.25% of the balance which is just over £320 and would still have been fine however they attempted to take over £2000 which is again different to the terms of the contract.

    Why do they have confusing contracts then fail to accept ownership of the mistake then imply that I'm asking them to falsify my credit profile record.

    This is an absolutely terrible experience with this bank and I wonder if anyone knows how I can resolve this or if I should just go straight to the Ombudsman?

    I have a credit card, business bank account, personal bank account and mortgage with RBS but after this situation I'll seriously consider banking elsewhere as they have been nothing but trouble to me and the attitude of the staff I spoke to is downright terrible.

    Sorry for rambling on but thank you in advance for any responses.

    Regards
    James
Page 6
    • chattychappy
    • By chattychappy 5th May 16, 8:51 AM
    • 6,073 Posts
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    chattychappy
    What have the original T&Cs got to do with it. One of the conditions within the T&Cs is that they can vary them and, once informed of them, by continuing to use the card you accept the new T&Cs.

    Any overlimit amount has always been immediately due.

    The only argument here is if the op was informed of the change.
    Originally posted by molerat
    Yep!

    The minimum payment is not normally immediately due, but the amount by which you go overlimit generally is. So it comes down to definitions and what has been authorised. If "minimum" is defined to include the overlimit amount and then it is probably authorised. If it doesn't, then it's only authorised if the instruction is to take the minimum plus any overlimit amount. Since the OP's T+Cs doesn't support either of these, it comes down to how (according to those T+Cs) the CC is entitled to vary T+Cs and whether they followed the correct procedure.

    Oh and by the way, for those that think the CCs do no wrong in this regard, people do push the wrong buttons on IT systems. I had some revised T+Cs from MBNA a while back with a covering letter saying that they were sent out late in error - they had been intended to apply several months earlier.

    RBS haven't handled this well by claiming that the T+Cs apply allowed them to take the overlimit amount and failing to supply of copy of those to the OP.
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 5th May 16, 11:04 AM
    • 17,022 Posts
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    agrinnall

    RBS haven't handled this well by claiming that the T+Cs apply allowed them to take the overlimit amount and failing to supply of copy of those to the OP.
    Originally posted by chattychappy
    I agree that it's been pretty poor customer service by RBS (presumably the OP has a Relationship Manager, is that who the conversation has been with?) but as Ben pointed out in post #98 it's very unlikely that any of the unknown number of T&Cs that has applied over the life of the account would not have allowed them to take the overlimit amount.
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 5th May 16, 2:06 PM
    • 3,977 Posts
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    eskbanker
    They do say sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. I see some meaning in that saying.
    Originally posted by RBS_Sucks
    I wouldn't really call that sarcasm, just a bit of gentle exaggeration for effect - you're still avoiding the repeatedly-asked fundamental question though, i.e. what do your original Ts & Cs say about how changes will be handled? Surely you can see that this is pivotal as to whether RBS have erred here or not (as well as the matter of what the current Ts & Cs are)?
    • fifeken
    • By fifeken 5th May 16, 3:12 PM
    • 2,084 Posts
    • 1,069 Thanks
    fifeken
    You say I'm wrong but how can that be where only opinion is concerned?
    Originally posted by RBS_Sucks
    But it's not about opinion, it's about what you have agreed with the bank.

    Only you or they can provide that information, but the odds are that it will be along the lines of the examples given elsewhere in this thread. Do you disagree?
    • Lemonsqueezer78
    • By Lemonsqueezer78 5th May 16, 8:10 PM
    • 279 Posts
    • 339 Thanks
    Lemonsqueezer78
    My BA American Express card - reverse of the statement says this:

    Your minimum repayment is shown on the front of your statement.
    The minimum amount you must pay us each month will be the greater of:
    (i) £25 (or the total amount owing if less); and
    (ii) any interest, default fees, repayment protection insurance, overdue amounts and 1/12th of any annual fees or
    the full monthly fee (if applicable to the product you hold) plus 2% of the remaining balance.


    Which is interesting as it does not suggest any over limit amount is automatically taken or added to my minimum payment due.

    In the full online Card T&Cs - it says

    The Minimum Payment Due is the highest of the following amounts:
    (1) £25 (or the total amount owing if less); or
    (2) any interest, default fees, repayment protection insurance and 1/12th of any annual fees or the full monthly fee (if applicable to the product you hold) plus 2% of the remaining balance.
    Then we round up to the nearest pound.


    And so again, it does not make any mention of automatically adding the over-limit amount.

    Supplying this as a data point - just to provide some counter to those that are suggesting "all cards do this"
    • jonesMUFCforever
    • By jonesMUFCforever 5th May 16, 8:27 PM
    • 23,492 Posts
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    jonesMUFCforever
    My BA American Express card - reverse of the statement says this:

    Your minimum repayment is shown on the front of your statement.
    The minimum amount you must pay us each month will be the greater of:
    (i) £25 (or the total amount owing if less); and
    (ii) any interest, default fees, repayment protection insurance, overdue amounts and 1/12th of any annual fees or
    the full monthly fee (if applicable to the product you hold) plus 2% of the remaining balance.


    Which is interesting as it does not suggest any over limit amount is automatically taken or added to my minimum payment due.

    In the full online Card T&Cs - it says

    The Minimum Payment Due is the highest of the following amounts:
    (1) £25 (or the total amount owing if less); or
    (2) any interest, default fees, repayment protection insurance and 1/12th of any annual fees or the full monthly fee (if applicable to the product you hold) plus 2% of the remaining balance.
    Then we round up to the nearest pound.


    And so again, it does not make any mention of automatically adding the over-limit amount.

    Supplying this as a data point - just to provide some counter to those that are suggesting "all cards do this"
    Originally posted by Lemonsqueezer78
    If you are over your limit does not overdue cover this
    What goes around - comes around
    give lots and you will always receive lots
    • YorkshireBoy
    • By YorkshireBoy 5th May 16, 8:35 PM
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    • 16,624 Thanks
    YorkshireBoy
    Supplying this as a data point - just to provide some counter to those that are suggesting "all cards do this"
    Originally posted by Lemonsqueezer78
    You've very selectively quoted from your card's T&Cs. Here are some more quotes:

    Firstly, here's where they say it's the cardholder's responsibility to stay within the credit limit, and warn you that they might not always be watching!...
    You must manage your Account so that the outstanding balance does not exceed the credit limit. However, we may approve Transactions that result in your balance exceeding your credit limit.
    And here's where they tell you that if they ask for it back you must pay it!...
    If we request, you also agree to pay us any amount by which you have gone over your credit limit immediately or together with your Minimum Payment.
    And finally, here's where they tell you how you'll be notified...
    The amount shown as due on the statement may therefore comprise the Minimum Payment Due, any arrears still outstanding and any over limit amount.
    So not really a "data point" is it?


    http://www.americanexpress.com/uk/content/pdf/card-products/ba-credit-card/BACreditTCs.pdf
    • Lemonsqueezer78
    • By Lemonsqueezer78 5th May 16, 9:21 PM
    • 279 Posts
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    Lemonsqueezer78
    Whoa there fella's - I didn't claim that going over your limit wasn't bad OR that it wasn't against the terms and conditions OR that you shouldn't check your statement.

    I was simply showing that my card T&Cs do not state (see edit below) that over limit amounts are added to your minimum payment, and that it's therefore not necessarily the absolute norm that some posters are suggesting it is.

    Edit - thank you Yorkshire - I actually did not see that section, so that is pretty clear (and I stand corrected) but I think it's strange that this info is not included in the actual section related to "how we calculate your minimum payment".
    Last edited by Lemonsqueezer78; 05-05-2016 at 9:28 PM.
    • meer53
    • By meer53 5th May 16, 9:35 PM
    • 8,546 Posts
    • 12,260 Thanks
    meer53
    Whoa there fella's - I didn't claim that going over your limit wasn't bad OR that it wasn't against the terms and conditions OR that you shouldn't check your statement.

    I was simply showing that my card T&Cs do not state (see edit below) that over limit amounts are added to your minimum payment, and that it's therefore not necessarily the absolute norm that some posters are suggesting it is.

    Edit - thank you Yorkshire - I actually did not see that section, so that is pretty clear (and I stand corrected) but I think it's strange that this info is not included in the actual section related to "how we calculate your minimum payment".
    Originally posted by Lemonsqueezer78
    Because the over limit amount is nothing to do with the minimum payment ?
    • Lemonsqueezer78
    • By Lemonsqueezer78 5th May 16, 9:59 PM
    • 279 Posts
    • 339 Thanks
    Lemonsqueezer78
    Because the over limit amount is nothing to do with the minimum payment ?
    Originally posted by meer53
    But it is - in fact my monthly statement shows the amount I need to pay in a field called "minimum payment due" - which is where the amount, which would include the over limit amount, would be shown.

    Its only a small observation, don't get me wrong. But it is curious that a area of the T&Cs dedicated to explaining in detail how my minimum payment is calculated doesn't include this one fact. But - as Yorkshire has highlighted - it is explained elsewhere so I obviously can' and won't claim the T&C's don't cover it. Or at least not the full version - the statement excerpt is still slightly misleading in my view but again, small point really and as I said, I'm not claiming you shouldn't go by your statement.
    • YorkshireBoy
    • By YorkshireBoy 5th May 16, 10:11 PM
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    YorkshireBoy
    the statement excerpt is still slightly misleading in my view
    Originally posted by Lemonsqueezer78
    As jones said above, the "overdue" wording relates to the overlimit amount (and any other overdue amount). We've already seen that this amount is repayable "immediately", therefore it becomes "overdue" there and then.

    As to the wording of the 'summary' on the statement, then if I saw it was £2K more than I expected (using the OP as an example) I'd refer to my account T&Cs to see why.
    • Lemonsqueezer78
    • By Lemonsqueezer78 5th May 16, 10:43 PM
    • 279 Posts
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    Lemonsqueezer78
    Not really, it becomes "overdue" only once they have asked for repayment. If they ask for repayment as part of the statement "minimum payment due" then that is not overdue until after the "payment due date", which is also shown on the statement. Unless they contact me mid-cycle and exercise their right to "request" payment immediately - and I did not pay - then it would also be overdue.

    That section is still strangely worded to me. Regardless of whether it is possible to piece all the sections together - I'm not sure how anyone could deny it would just be clearer to say "any interest, default fees, repayment protection insurance, overdue amounts, amounts over your agreed credit limit, and 1/12th of any annual fees..."
    • YorkshireBoy
    • By YorkshireBoy 5th May 16, 11:08 PM
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    YorkshireBoy
    I'm not sure how anyone could deny it would just be clearer to say "any interest, default fees, repayment protection insurance, overdue amounts, amounts over your agreed credit limit, and 1/12th of any annual fees..."
    Originally posted by Lemonsqueezer78
    Can't argue with that.
    • chattychappy
    • By chattychappy 6th May 16, 8:08 AM
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    chattychappy
    Based on the above, if the DD is set up to pay the "minimum payment", then I don't see how Amex is entitled to take to take an overlimit amount at the same time.
    • RBS_Sucks
    • By RBS_Sucks 11th Mar 17, 12:52 PM
    • 49 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    RBS_Sucks
    I thought I would update this thread and firstly thank all those with constructive comments for their input.

    RBS showed some discretion and accepted that there were errors with this situation and as such they removed the late payment marker. This was actually done not too long after posting this thread.

    From my own research, banks don't remove these markers unless they are somehow to blame in someway for it happening therefore I'm thankful they resolved the matter.
    • chattychappy
    • By chattychappy 12th Mar 17, 12:12 AM
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    chattychappy
    Thanks very much for the update. Seems the struggle paid off!

    That said, a single late payment marker doesn't make much (if any) difference after a few months. I had one recently (an error by Barclaycard) but didn't bother to have it corrected. My Experian score (for those that believe in them) dipped significantly, but is now 999 again after just a few months.

    Ditto a few years ago with Nationwide.
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