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  • FIRST POST
    • Strangely99
    • By Strangely99 28th Apr 16, 9:51 PM
    • 1Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Strangely99
    Premier Park, Marina Car Park Torquay
    • #1
    • 28th Apr 16, 9:51 PM
    Premier Park, Marina Car Park Torquay 28th Apr 16 at 9:51 PM
    Hi all,

    I received a NTK PCN after my other half went into said car park waiting at around midnight 1 evening, not realising the car park is ANPR. She stayed 22 mins then left hence the PCN. I've been away so didn't actually get the notice until yesterday, today was day 14 so I did some reading on here and other sites and hashed together an appeal and sent it in.

    I received my rejection today which was very sharp but also I don't know what to make of it. Some help would be much appreciated here please as I'm a bit confused now.
    Appeal and rejection below........

    "I refer to the above-detailed Parking Charge Notice (“PCN”) issued by Premier Park Limited (“Premier”) as a Notice to Keeper in respect of an alleged breach of Parking Terms and Conditions at Marina Car Park, Torquay on 9th April 2016.

    I confirm that I am the keeper of this vehicle for the purpose of the corresponding definition under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“POFA”) and I write to formally dispute the validity of this PCN on the basis that:
    • Premier’s Notice to Keeper did not comply with the strict requirements
    of Schedule 4 of POFA.
    • Premier is not the landowner and does not have the standing to offer
    contracts to drivers nor to bring a claim in its own right and;
    • Premier’s car park signage was not sufficiently prominent nor was it
    sufficiently clearly-worded to form a contract with the driver.

    I require that you notify me in writing within the strict timescales set out under the British Parking Association Limited Code of Practice either that

    a) Premier accepts that I am not liable for this charge and that the PCN has been cancelled, or
    b) Premier intends to continue to pursue its claim, in which case you shall at the same time provide me with details of the Independent Appeals Service (POPLA), their contact details and a unique POPLA appeal reference so that I may escalate the matter to POPLA.

    Thank you for your cooperation and I look forward to receiving Premier’s notification that this charge has been cancelled."


    reply.....

    "We write to acknowledge receipt of your recent online appeal regarding the issuing of the above Parking Charge Notice (PCN).

    We note your comments and must refer you to the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012, Schedule 4 - Recovery of unpaid Parking Charges. This is available to view online at:

    link removed....

    We must therefore request that the details of the driver of the vehicle at the time of the contravention are supplied; this must include their full name and serviceable UK postal address. If you are unwilling or unable to provide these details the registered keeper of this vehicle will remain liable for this PCN. This information should be provided by 5th May 2016.

    If we do not receive this information by the date given, the registered keeper of the vehicle at the date of event will be held liable.

    If you would like to view our photographic evidence, please visit blah blah

    Please respond by return or by filling in the Transfer of Liability form on the reverse of the PCN and posting it to Premier Park, PO Box 624, Exeter, EX1 9JG."


    Now, my confusion lies in that how can I have 7 days to reply? I thought it was more than that? And also I've already confirmed I am the keeper and requested a POPLA appeal code to which they seem to have not acknowledged.

    Where do I go from here? Thanks in advance....
Page 1
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 28th Apr 16, 10:25 PM
    • 10,979 Posts
    • 16,384 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #2
    • 28th Apr 16, 10:25 PM
    • #2
    • 28th Apr 16, 10:25 PM
    Complain to the BPA that no POPLA code has been provided despite you as keeper having appealed the PCN. Copy to the DVLA. Send copies of your appeal and the PPC response.

    You do not have to divulge the driver's details. There is no requirement in PoFA for a UK 'serviceable address' (actually the precise form of words is 'address for service'). Their instruction is misleading.

    Complaints to the BPA and DVLA can be emailed to:

    aos@britishparking.co.uk

    or (if posting)

    British Parking Association
    Stuart House
    41-43 Perrymount Road
    Haywards Heath
    West Sussex
    RH16 3BN

    and DVLA:

    FOI@dvla.gsi.gov.uk

    In parallel with this, get in touch with the Marina officials and ask that they intervene on your behalf. Also do some research/digging and find out if the marina is covered by any byelaws. If they do, you have another string to your bow - possibly 'not relevant land' as per PoFA. Worth a few Google searches.
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 28-04-2016 at 11:27 PM.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • Edna Basher
    • By Edna Basher 28th Apr 16, 11:25 PM
    • 458 Posts
    • 1,177 Thanks
    Edna Basher
    • #3
    • 28th Apr 16, 11:25 PM
    • #3
    • 28th Apr 16, 11:25 PM
    You've received the standard "interim" letter that Premier Park use to try to trick its recipient into revealing the identity of the driver.

    Don't reply to this letter - Premier Park's standard rejection letter will follow in due course (complete with POPLA Code). At that point, you'll get plenty of help from this Forum to construct your POPLA appeal.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 29th Apr 16, 1:06 AM
    • 40,460 Posts
    • 52,359 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #4
    • 29th Apr 16, 1:06 AM
    • #4
    • 29th Apr 16, 1:06 AM
    Premier Park and UKPC both do this and it is indeed a matter of waiting; not falling for it.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Jaffa cake
    • By Jaffa cake 18th Oct 16, 2:17 PM
    • 84 Posts
    • 38 Thanks
    Jaffa cake
    • #5
    • 18th Oct 16, 2:17 PM
    • #5
    • 18th Oct 16, 2:17 PM
    This is just the position I am at now with Premier Parking.

    Place of parking = Torquay Marina.

    I just received my 1st appeal rejection from premier Parking.
    They have included a POPLA code for me.

    So now I will start to put an appeal together to send off to POPLA.

    Jaffa
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th Oct 16, 5:18 PM
    • 40,460 Posts
    • 52,359 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 18th Oct 16, 5:18 PM
    • #6
    • 18th Oct 16, 5:18 PM
    This is just the position I am at now with Premier Parking.

    Place of parking = Torquay Marina.

    I just received my 1st appeal rejection from premier Parking.
    They have included a POPLA code for me.

    So now I will start to put an appeal together to send off to POPLA.

    Jaffa
    Originally posted by Jaffa cake
    You can copy the one I wrote here on pepipoo on Sunday as I was fed up with so many people missing the Premier Park wording flaw in their NTKs (which we've known about all year) and quoting the wrong sections of para 9, Schedule 4:

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=108912&st=0&start=0

    As long as you never said who was driving and use that wording in post #22 (adapt it if anything differs) you'll win on 'no keeper liability'. As long as drivers are not admitted, all Premier Park POPLA appeals are won on both forums at the moment due to their omissions in statutory wording. Oh, and at Torquay Marina a keeper has the added bonus that the site is 'not relevant land' (see the wording in post #22 in the link).

    You just save the appeal as a PDF and make sure you successfully upload it (turns into an odd little 'bin' icon) under 'other' online on the POPLA website. Job done.

    When you win, please come back to this forum and post your victory in 'POPLA Decisions' at the top of this board.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 18-10-2016 at 5:23 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Jaffa cake
    • By Jaffa cake 18th Oct 16, 11:05 PM
    • 84 Posts
    • 38 Thanks
    Jaffa cake
    • #7
    • 18th Oct 16, 11:05 PM
    • #7
    • 18th Oct 16, 11:05 PM
    Thank you coupon mad,
    I have read several of your posts.
    I am very pleased you took the time to reply to my question.

    Thank you so much.

    Jaffa.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Oct 16, 12:45 AM
    • 40,460 Posts
    • 52,359 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 19th Oct 16, 12:45 AM
    • #8
    • 19th Oct 16, 12:45 AM
    I knew a cat called Jaffa once, nice name!
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Jaffa cake
    • By Jaffa cake 22nd Nov 16, 3:00 PM
    • 84 Posts
    • 38 Thanks
    Jaffa cake
    • #9
    • 22nd Nov 16, 3:00 PM
    • #9
    • 22nd Nov 16, 3:00 PM
    Premier parking

    I have received my document file from POPLA, and I have received my document file from premier.

    Here is there contract, which seem to state this has a duration of 6 months, dated November 2014.

    It is my opinion that this contract is out of date, and as thus, unenforceable.

    Front page is dated 04 November 2014
    Start date 04 December 2014
    Last page is dated 17 November 2015

    And as noted, this is a 6 month contract.
    So all the dates are now invalid.

    Some one is wrong


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    If I have missed any out, let me know please.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 22nd Nov 16, 4:30 PM
    • 40,460 Posts
    • 52,359 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    If the contract was started on 4.12.14 why was it not signed for a year? The dates do not stack up. Point that out to POPLA.

    Also things have changed re the 'no keeper liability' point and POPLA are now (inexplicably, except that they appear clueless about the POFA) getting the 'within 29 days' WRONG. So we need to cover that in your comments too, to steer them tot he right conclusion.

    What was the date issued on your PCN? Was it a Thursday or Friday, what date? Thursday 14th April? The comments need to show POPLA that 'within 29 days' is two or more days out.

    And...did your PCN actually say keeper liability occurs 'within 28 days' rather than the newer 'within 29 days?
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 22-11-2016 at 9:26 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • DollyDee
    • By DollyDee 23rd Nov 16, 1:03 PM
    • 623 Posts
    • 639 Thanks
    DollyDee
    In the first part of that contract the company is stated as "Marina Developments Ltd (MDL). At the end, where the signature is, it is stated as Marine Developments Ltd but that could be a mistake by Premier Park I suppose.

    Found these on companies house:

    https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00747592

    https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/01056715

    and google returned this:

    http://www.torbay.gov.uk/DemocraticServices/ieDecisionDetails.aspx?ID=232

    I don't know where I am going with this, just thought I would post in case it was of any use
    • Jaffa cake
    • By Jaffa cake 23rd Nov 16, 4:34 PM
    • 84 Posts
    • 38 Thanks
    Jaffa cake
    If the contract was started on 4.12.14 why was it not signed for a year? The dates do not stack up. Point that out to POPLA.

    Also things have changed re the 'no keeper liability' point and POPLA are now (inexplicably, except that they appear clueless about the POFA) getting the 'within 29 days' WRONG. So we need to cover that in your comments too, to steer them tot he right conclusion.

    What was the date issued on your PCN? Was it a Thursday or Friday, what date? Thursday 14th April? The comments need to show POPLA that 'within 29 days' is two or more days out.

    And...did your PCN actually say keeper liability occurs 'within 28 days' rather than the newer 'within 29 days?
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Here is the front, dated 2nd September.

    .
    Here is the rear with no mention of POFA.
    however does say 29 days.
    Indeed 2nd of September was a Friday.


    JC
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