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    • in my wellies
    • By in my wellies 14th Apr 16, 7:18 PM
    • 724Posts
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    in my wellies
    mum coming to live with me - sharing bills?
    • #1
    • 14th Apr 16, 7:18 PM
    mum coming to live with me - sharing bills? 14th Apr 16 at 7:18 PM
    Hi, I live alone (widow) about 50 miles / 1 hour drive from my mum.
    'When the time comes' (her words) she says she would like to come and live with me as long as possible to avoid a care home. I have some room but she is thinking I could extend to build a bathroom/ kitchen downstairs for her. She said she would pay someone to 'granny sit' and for a carer when necessary so I can still go out. She can afford this.

    I'm thinking ahead and have a few questions please

    If she sold her house could she just pay for the building? What implications are there? For her? For me? I own my house outright.
    She would want to pay me 'keep' - I've no idea how much. What would be right? I was thinking it will only be extra food and heat - other bills I pay anyway
    Am I best to go through an agency to employ a carer? How do I find one?
    Do I need to change insurance or do anything else.
    I'm sure there are other questions I haven't even thought about

    Thank you
    Love living in a village in the country side
    Still enjoying my retirement
Page 1
    • LilElvis
    • By LilElvis 14th Apr 16, 7:28 PM
    • 3,377 Posts
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    LilElvis
    • #2
    • 14th Apr 16, 7:28 PM
    • #2
    • 14th Apr 16, 7:28 PM
    Why doesn't she just buy a warden-assisted flat near to you and pay for care she needs? That way you both keep your independence.

    She says "when the time comes", but when it does would there be enough time to get planning permission and the building completed?

    What happens if she deteriorates to such a degree that residential care is the best option?

    Is your mother living with you something that you want?
    • PasturesNew
    • By PasturesNew 14th Apr 16, 8:28 PM
    • 61,610 Posts
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    PasturesNew
    • #3
    • 14th Apr 16, 8:28 PM
    • #3
    • 14th Apr 16, 8:28 PM
    Once they start to fail, they work around it, until a crisis happens. Once a crisis happens things move fast. Suddenly you've got somebody who doesn't have 1-2 minor issues, but a raft of complex issues. You'd need to get that extension built and have her moved in soonest, to be honest. Before there's a crisis.

    But then you've got your mother kicking around the place, making you feel guilty as you're trying to do stuff/go out etc and (shock, horror) not including her in your plans.

    Overall, it's not going to be easy whichever route you choose.

    You need to do the build now, then have it kicking around for X years until she suddenly needs it - without a clue why she'd need it. She might be mobile, might not be. She might have dementia, or all her marbles. So your design plans might not fit what's wrong with her when she turns up on your doorstep.

    This needs a lot more thought ..... "when the time comes" could be next week, or not for 15 years. And you have to sit there with everything up in the air until the day you're tied to your mother and the house.

    I don't want to be mean, but you stand the chance of "losing you".
    • in my wellies
    • By in my wellies 14th Apr 16, 10:34 PM
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    in my wellies
    • #4
    • 14th Apr 16, 10:34 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Apr 16, 10:34 PM
    I just knew there would be more questions than I had thought of. Thank you for the answers - they gave me a lot to think about.

    Yesterday was the first time she has talked about the subject and I do need to think everything through. I understand it's an unknown time scale.

    She looks after her blind sister and wont leave her so she wouldn't move until she can't do that and as you say it might be too late then. They are good for each other and hopefully will cope a while, but, as you say it's just one crisis away from falling apart. They are 84, not twins but close. Sister is the brain/organiser, mother is the eyes/driver.

    My daughter has just suggested how I could extend the downstairs loo into the dining room to make a shower room and mum use the dining room as her bed/sitting room. The room would still be 13' x 16' and no steps. That would be quick and plumbing is in and is a clever idea.

    But as you say I can't know when or what she will need. Sister said at Christmas she would be OK on her own but can't be responsible for mum but the difficulty will be getting mum to understand she can't 'look after' sister. This is why I was so pleased yesterday when she brought up the subject of coming to live with me - she is perhaps starting to understand her limits.

    Thank you for your comments, I'll keep thinking
    Love living in a village in the country side
    Still enjoying my retirement
    • elsien
    • By elsien 14th Apr 16, 10:41 PM
    • 15,858 Posts
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    elsien
    • #5
    • 14th Apr 16, 10:41 PM
    • #5
    • 14th Apr 16, 10:41 PM
    You've talked about what your mum wants, but what about what you want?
    I love my mother but I couldn't live with her now as she drives me up the wall, let alone when she's ill, confused, and continuously either popping in or banging on the wall for company because the carer won't be back for another 3 hours.
    Do you know how much carers cost per hour? If she has mobility problems she might need two carers to work together. If she's got the money then that's fine, but just consider all of the implications for you as well as for her.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • carefullycautious
    • By carefullycautious 15th Apr 16, 8:51 AM
    • 2,158 Posts
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    carefullycautious
    • #6
    • 15th Apr 16, 8:51 AM
    • #6
    • 15th Apr 16, 8:51 AM
    I toyed with the idea of looking after a relative, but soon realised that I would be unable to give the level of care they needed. For one the lifting and handling would have been a no go especially with needing toileting/bathing etc.


    Also what usually happens is that they sleep when you are awake and are awake when you want to sleep which causes added problems as they deteriorate


    I really take my hat off to the many carers who are able to do all this.
    • jackyann
    • By jackyann 15th Apr 16, 2:59 PM
    • 3,326 Posts
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    jackyann
    • #7
    • 15th Apr 16, 2:59 PM
    • #7
    • 15th Apr 16, 2:59 PM
    There are loads of issues here, and it is good that you are thinking about them in advance.

    1. Building an extension can be time-consuming (see "In My Home" board). It may increase the value of your house (but not usually by the amount it costs!) and it may be useful in the future for you.
    Either way, you need to begin the process well before "the time comes".

    2. What is the deal on funding it? Will mum fund it on condition that you care for her? What then happens if "the time comes" very suddenly, or she becomes so ill that home caring is not an option? How will this affect other beneficiaries?

    3. What level of care does she expect from you in return for this funding? A high level of personal care, all meals prepared - feeding her, toileting her etc.etc? Or maybe she only expects companionship and an eye kept on her, and expects to fund personal care herself.

    4. In either of these cases, what happens if you are too ill to fulfil expectations?

    These are not insurmountable problems, but they do need talking through. I have known a great deal of family distress arising from different expectations of "care".

    And when you do get there, head for the agencies - employing someone yourself is a minefield! Of course, the occasional neighbourly companion for a couple of hours doesn't count, but anything regular and responsible needs doing by people who have training & back up.

    It seems that you hav plenty of time to talk this through. good luck.
    • Robin9
    • By Robin9 16th Apr 16, 3:20 PM
    • 2,239 Posts
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    Robin9
    • #8
    • 16th Apr 16, 3:20 PM
    • #8
    • 16th Apr 16, 3:20 PM
    At least your mother is considering her future – my 95 yo MIL has her head stuck in the sand. She is adamant that she wants to stay in her own home of nearly 50 years. Trying to encourage to look to the future meets with deaf ears.

    She lives alone, is frail, poor heart, poor eyesight and relies heavily on neighbours, has (most of) her marbles but mixes up her memories. She had a fall but refused to go to hospital – “people die in hospital at the weekends”.

    The probable end will be a fall and not be found before its too late. That would be a very sad end to a life.

    One consequence of this is that it has made me – nearly 70 – consider my and my wife’s own futures.
    • Tuesday Tenor
    • By Tuesday Tenor 16th Apr 16, 4:29 PM
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    Tuesday Tenor
    • #9
    • 16th Apr 16, 4:29 PM
    • #9
    • 16th Apr 16, 4:29 PM

    The probable end will be a fall and not be found before its too late. That would be a very sad end to a life.. .
    Originally posted by Robin9
    True, but it is her own choice.

    I had this issue with my 88-year old father. At that stage I was spending approx 1 week in 3 with him, to attend appointments, do a Big Shop, provide outings and company. He was then fine on his own for 2 weeks, cooking simple meals, reordering meds, getting to local shops. I phoned every morning.

    I wanted him to have an alarm system, but he refused to let TWO local neighbours be key-holders. (One trusted neighbour was OK, but the system needed two). He'd had a very mild stroke 10 years before. I spelled out to him that if he fell/had a stroke at 11 a.m. , no one would realise and he'd be on the floor, possibly in pain, until I phoned the following morning. He was very matter of fact: 'Well, I'll probably die then'. That wasn't a problem for him. What would have been a daily anxiety for him (after being emotionally damaged by Nazi occupation 60 years before) was the idea that someone he didn't know too well had a key. His choice, and I had to accept that.

    Does MiL have a panic alarm?
    • Robin9
    • By Robin9 16th Apr 16, 5:24 PM
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    Robin9
    Yes she has a pendant alarm and used it to summon help - she has very good neighbours on the contact list.

    It's hard seeing someone go downhill knowing there is assistance which she won't have.
    • in my wellies
    • By in my wellies 3rd May 16, 10:14 PM
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    in my wellies
    Thank you for all the points and suggestions. Lots of thinking to do.
    Love living in a village in the country side
    Still enjoying my retirement
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 4th May 16, 11:25 AM
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    TBagpuss
    How you manage it finacially would be very much up p the two of you, but it would be sensible to take some legal advice oce you have a rough idea, to ensure that you don't miss anything relevant.

    In terms of capital investment from Mum to fund conversion of your home, options would be
    - You pay for it, and reach agreement with Mum about what she pays by ay of 'rent' once she moves in (bear in mind that it wil lchange bills - e.g losing your single person council tax discount, possibly higher heating biils if she is at home more than you and/or needs a warmer environment)
    - She pays for it, and has a % share of your house based on the amount by which the alternation increases the house's value (this option gives her some security as she becomes a joint owner of the house, it defines her share (so no issues re: deprivation of assets) BUT it could potentially mean that you have to sell you home if there are other beneficiaries entitlwd to a share of her estate on her death, or if things sdon't work out and she wants her money back, if you can't aford to buy her out.
    - She pays for it, but the house stays in your name. You and she would both need legal advice and ensure that there was a clear agreement about what, if anything, se was entitled to as a result of her contribution.

    It may be that the alterations would not actually increase the value of your home at all, so that is something it is worth looking into as it may make a difference to what you and she feel is fair in terms of how it is funded and what you get.

    If you are an only child and likely to be her sole beneficiary then things are a little simpler but you still need to think about what would happen if she needed to move into care or indeed if you fould that things were not working out.

    It may be sensible to lok at warden controlled flats and sheltered housing near to your home as well as thinking about her moving in with you, to decide which is likely to work best for you both.
    • in my wellies
    • By in my wellies 7th Feb 18, 6:00 PM
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    in my wellies
    Hi, Just an update on an old thread. It all got too much for my mum living on her own (retirement living flat) so she came to live with me last month. She was desperately lonely and suffering some memory loss. I'm emptying her flat so it can go on the market - she hasn't been there since Christmas and is avoiding it.
    We are muddling along, that is, daughter who returned after uni, son who comes home from uni every weekend and a cousin whose stuff I'm storing as she is 'between houses' who seems to live in my garage/annex when it's too cold for her caravan and her husband is working away and her son when he's up here visiting.
    Mum certainly isn't lonely anymore. She tries to keep busy but does get mixed up and anxious.
    I've looked into employing a carer/s and have registered with an agency in the next village. They have visited so can be called upon.
    She can easily manage the stairs for now but tomorrow I'm going to talk to a bathroom company for idea about creating a shower/wet room downstairs. The plumbing is there so hopefully I only need to remove the coat pegs and cupboard and the shower can go in there. It will be tight but there is a possibility to move a stud wall 40 cm for more space.
    The biggest change is having the heating on all day - something very new to me! And at 21 degrees. Also using a lot more hot water because she washes up every cup in a big bowl of soapy water whereas I swill it or use the dishwasher.
    • troubleinparadise
    • By troubleinparadise 7th Feb 18, 7:02 PM
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    troubleinparadise
    Well, I guess things will become clearer in terms of what your Mum needs and how best to achieve that. I hope your pre-thinking helps you out with that.

    Just one key thing - do you have Lasting Powers of Attorney for both Finance and Welfare for her in place? Those will help you manage her affairs if she does lose capacity. As you say she has moments of memory loss, it is imperative to get on and sort those whilst she still understands the concept.

    I hope things work out for the two of you. That must be such a comfort for your Mum, but remember to look after yourself too!
    • in my wellies
    • By in my wellies 7th Feb 18, 7:49 PM
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    • 472 Thanks
    in my wellies
    I do have LPA for Health and Finance. We sorted that out last year when it became clear it might be needed but thank you for the reminder. It was very easy on-line and I did think I should do them for myself soon, tell the children and hopefully forget about it.
    Love living in a village in the country side
    Still enjoying my retirement
    • Out, Vile Jelly
    • By Out, Vile Jelly 8th Feb 18, 10:34 AM
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    Out, Vile Jelly
    OP, it sounds as though a lot of people rely on you to provide for them. Don't be afraid to say Enough Is Enough if it all gets too much; you need to acknowledge the very real possibility that at some point you will be unable to provide the 24 hour care that very frail elderly people require.

    The way my mum washes up in my house irritates me too!
    They are an EYESORES!!!!
    • margaretclare
    • By margaretclare 8th Feb 18, 12:25 PM
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    margaretclare
    What became of the blind sister that mum lived with?

    PS: I would agree with the accessible downstairs loo/shower room. http://www.mobility-plus.co.uk/walk-in-showers/

    This was what we had done the year before last. Couldn't be more pleased.
    Last edited by margaretclare; 08-02-2018 at 12:29 PM.
    Ær ic wisdom funde, ær wearð ic eald.
    Before I found wisdom, I became old.
    • in my wellies
    • By in my wellies 8th Feb 18, 1:06 PM
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    • 472 Thanks
    in my wellies
    Thanks for that link margaretclare, it looks do-able.
    The blind sister is now 99% blind (it was about 80%) but has 100% of her marbles. Together they cleared out her house so it's now the most uncluttered house I know. On her own she can manage because she knows where everything is. She can prepare ready meals. I take her to Iceland every 3 weeks or so. She can do her laundry. She has a cleaner once a week and the talking book service which is brilliant! What she couldn't cope with was mum moving stuff around when trying to help. That's why I stepped in. Mum loses things in my house and I can see so it must have been difficult. They miss each other so I take mum over to stay for 2 nights every fortnight which works well so far. Blind aunty has a son who is very good and local but he works all hours - you know the sort of thing these days, frightened to take an hour off for fear of his job.
    • margaretclare
    • By margaretclare 8th Feb 18, 1:16 PM
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    margaretclare
    About ready meals for Auntie - Oakhouse Foods are very good. We had these last year when DH was so ill and I couldn't be bothered with cooking. https://www.oakhousefoods.co.uk/

    I used to get the mini-meals which are quite enough for those of us with a smaller appetite.
    Ær ic wisdom funde, ær wearð ic eald.
    Before I found wisdom, I became old.
    • Fireflyaway
    • By Fireflyaway 8th Feb 18, 3:39 PM
    • 1,543 Posts
    • 1,658 Thanks
    Fireflyaway
    I think having your mum to stay is great. Doing extensive building work seems quite extreme. Do you have a current spare room? Could you add a stairlift etc? Not meaning to upset you but after your mum passes on, will you be left with a house thats been changed beyond what is useful / what you like etc?
    The other consideration is things can change. An elderly person might manage with a bit of basic care but unfortunately some people become so unwell its hard to stay at home. My elderly neighbour was a fit 90 year old. Very quickly he went down hill with dementia. He walked off and got lost, locked himself out, then became very violent. He attacked a fellow resident. This was clearly the illness as previously he was lovely and polite and gentle.
    If worse happened and your mum was unwell and needed care but had sold her home you might have less choice.
    I'd not charge anything for bills. Your mum must have spent a lot on food and clothing for you when you were young. Imagined if she invoiced you! Its your time to help her now.
    Your councils adult social care team can provide info. Read cqc reports, get recommendations etc. Hope it works out well.
    Last edited by Fireflyaway; 08-02-2018 at 3:46 PM. Reason: T
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