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  • FIRST POST
    • Barnaby Chunder
    • By Barnaby Chunder 3rd Apr 16, 5:52 PM
    • 3Posts
    • 2Thanks
    Barnaby Chunder
    E.ON Tariff Withdrawal
    • #1
    • 3rd Apr 16, 5:52 PM
    E.ON Tariff Withdrawal 3rd Apr 16 at 5:52 PM
    E.ON wrote to me recently:
    Important information: we need to talk to you about your meter
    Your electricity tariff is linked to an old model electricity meter, and we're no longer able to offer you a tariff with off peak rates on this meter. We need to replace it with a new one as soon as possible. We can then continue to provide you with an electricity tariff with off peak rates.
    Why we need to change your meter
    When we withdraw your tariff later this year your bills could increase so it's important that we change your meter. It's free of charge and your electricity will only be switched off or around an hour.
    I was concerned by that phrase in the second paragraph, "When we withdraw your tariff later this year…". I have two tariffs, EnergyPlan25 and a Restricted Hours Tariff (RHT) for electric underfloor heating (installed when the property was built in the seventies, I think). Presumably they're talking about withdrawing the RHT. Are they allowed to do this? Footyguy, in another thread, suggested that suppliers are obliged to support so-called 'legacy' tariffs.
Page 1
  • E.ON Company Representative: Helena
    • #2
    • 4th Apr 16, 8:39 AM
    • #2
    • 4th Apr 16, 8:39 AM
    Good morning Barnaby Chunder and welcome to the forum.

    I'll give you the all the info I can about this to try and help you as much as possible.

    As you say, this an old Restricted Hour Tariff (RHT) metering set up.

    They were also designed for all electric properties with storage heaters or other types of electrical heating. To work, they’ll be wired directly into the heating/water heating circuits at properties. Unless manually overridden, this lets the meter automatically turn the heating on during the off peak period and off again afterwards. During the off peak times, all electricity used for heating/water heating that goes through these dedicated circuits is recorded on separate meter registers and charged at off peak rates. With RHT, there’s two meters. One records normal usage like lights, TV etc whilst the second covers usage for heating/water heating connected to the dedicated circuits.

    When moving from RHT to conventional metering, we always recommend an electrician checks over the set up first. This is because of the nature of this type of arrangement where the meter is wired directly into the dedicated heating/hot water circuits. This is particularly relevant when customers ask for a change of meter type but still have electrical heating as the switch can have implications for this.

    We’re currently reviewing older meters like RHT to see if it’s possible to replace them with a more appropriate type, For example a new two rate Economy 10 meter, Economy 7 meter or possible a single rate meter. This is what the letter means.

    This project is being looked after by a specialist area of the business and it would be them you'll need to speak to (I can put you in touch)

    You would also have a much wider range of tariff's to choose from if you have a E7 or single rate, we only have the one E10 tariff to pick from which is the same as the one available for the current RHT.

    I think the first step is to speak to the guys here that are arranging the meter changes and talk through concerns you may have.

    I hope this helps a little.

    Helena



    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 4th Apr 16, 3:51 PM
    • 2,442 Posts
    • 950 Thanks
    footyguy
    • #3
    • 4th Apr 16, 3:51 PM
    • #3
    • 4th Apr 16, 3:51 PM
    ... Footyguy, in another thread, suggested that suppliers are obliged to support so-called 'legacy' tariffs.
    Originally posted by Barnaby Chunder
    I did, and that is correct.

    Hopefully, as you can see by the explanation given above by Helena from Eon, the supplier is continuing to support your supply
    • Barnaby Chunder
    • By Barnaby Chunder 8th Apr 16, 9:30 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Barnaby Chunder
    • #4
    • 8th Apr 16, 9:30 PM
    • #4
    • 8th Apr 16, 9:30 PM
    Hi Helena

    Thanks for your in-depth response, which summarises my supply arrangements very well! It is an all-electric property and there are two meters. On reading your reply, a number of questions spring to mind:

    We’re currently reviewing older meters like RHT to see if it’s possible to replace them with a more appropriate type, For example a new two rate Economy 10 meter, Economy 7 meter or possible a single rate meter…
    Originally posted by E.ON Company Representative: Helena
    Why are you reviewing these restricted hours tariffs (RHTs)? And when you say 'more appropriate', is that from my perspective or E.ON's? For example, my RHT for heating gives me 14½ hours of cheap(ish) electricity per day (21:00 - 08:30 (overnight), with an afternoon boost from 13:00 - 16:00). That's pretty appropriate for my needs. Why would I want to move to Economy 10 (which only gives me 10 hours) or Economy 7 (only 7 hours)?

    You see, when you send me letters saying "When we withdraw your tariff later this year…", I fear that you want to take my totally appropriate heating tariff away from me. And despite all the stuff about 'old' meters and 'old' tariffs, I suspect the real reason you want to withdraw my tariff is that it's rather a good one - for me.

    Hopefully, as you can see by the explanation given above by Helena from Eon, the supplier is continuing to support your supply
    Originally posted by footyguy
    Hmmm… I'm not sure what to make of your response, footyguy, but thanks anyway. I'm not sure if 'support your supply' is a mistake or a wry joke! But regardless - E.ON writing to me to say that they're withdrawing my tariff does not really constitute supporting a 'legacy' tariff (if, indeed, that's what I've got).

    Helena/footyguy - are there any rules or guidelines as to what constitutes a 'legacy' tariff, and the obligations suppliers have in relation to them?
    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 8th Apr 16, 9:39 PM
    • 2,442 Posts
    • 950 Thanks
    footyguy
    • #5
    • 8th Apr 16, 9:39 PM
    • #5
    • 8th Apr 16, 9:39 PM
    Hi Helena

    Thanks for your in-depth response, which summarises my supply arrangements very well! It is an all-electric property and there are two meters. On reading your reply, a number of questions spring to mind:



    Why are you reviewing these restricted hours tariffs (RHTs)? And when you say 'more appropriate', is that from my perspective or E.ON's? For example, my RHT for heating gives me 14½ hours of cheap(ish) electricity per day (21:00 - 08:30 (overnight), with an afternoon boost from 13:00 - 16:00). That's pretty appropriate for my needs. Why would I want to move to Economy 10 (which only gives me 10 hours) or Economy 7 (only 7 hours)?

    You see, when you send me letters saying "When we withdraw your tariff later this year…", I fear that you want to take my totally appropriate heating tariff away from me. And despite all the stuff about 'old' meters and 'old' tariffs, I suspect the real reason you want to withdraw my tariff is that it's rather a good one - for me.



    Hmmm… I'm not sure what to make of your response, footyguy, but thanks anyway. I'm not sure if 'support your supply' is a mistake or a wry joke! But regardless - E.ON writing to me to say that they're withdrawing my tariff does not really constitute supporting a 'legacy' tariff (if, indeed, that's what I've got).

    Helena/footyguy - are there any rules or guidelines as to what constitutes a 'legacy' tariff, and the obligations suppliers have in relation to them?
    Originally posted by Barnaby Chunder
    I think you are getting into detail you really don't need to.

    Bottom line is unless you have a single rate or E7 meter, then your metering will not be compatible with any other supplier.
    Some suppliers may not realise this until it's too late, and that is when the tears start for the customer who has attempted to switch supplier.

    If you have such odd metering, then the original supplier needs to continue to support.


    You are now being given an option by Eon - either take a single rate or E7 meter (and then you can switch supplier, but you may have some changes to make in your property first), or remain with Eon on their one and only E10 tariff. (and don't ever try to switch)

    As Helena suggested, best talk to the Eon specialist team if you are unsure as to what to do.
    Last edited by footyguy; 08-04-2016 at 9:42 PM.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 8th Apr 16, 9:50 PM
    • 26,058 Posts
    • 12,527 Thanks
    Cardew
    • #6
    • 8th Apr 16, 9:50 PM
    • #6
    • 8th Apr 16, 9:50 PM
    They might have to support legacy tariffs, even if they don't want to continue that support. However is there is there any restriction on the how much they can increase prices - say 15p/kWh for off-peak and 20p/kWh for peak and 50p for the daily standing charge well you get my drift!
    • Barnaby Chunder
    • By Barnaby Chunder 8th Apr 16, 10:58 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Barnaby Chunder
    • #7
    • 8th Apr 16, 10:58 PM
    • #7
    • 8th Apr 16, 10:58 PM
    Thanks, footyguy.

    Yes, I realised a long time ago that my metering was 'odd', and that any attempt to switch would end in tears. It gets pretty irritating having all media outlets screaming "Switch, switch, SWIIIIIIIIIITCH!" in my face all the time when I know that nothing good could come of it*. But let me emphasise that I'm not interested in switching at this time.

    Forgive me, but please could you clarify this bit of your reply:

    If you have such odd metering, then the original supplier needs to continue to support.

    You are now being given an option by Eon - either take a single rate or E7 meter (and then you can switch supplier, but you may have some changes to make in your property first), or remain with Eon on their one and only E10 tariff. (and don't ever try to switch)
    Originally posted by footyguy
    Isn't that three options?
    • Stick with odd RHT metering and insist E.ON continue to support it (what I want to do).
    • Move to E10 with E.ON (no thanks).
    • Move to E7 or single rate with E.ON (no thanks).

    They might have to support legacy tariffs, even if they don't want to continue that support. However is there is there any restriction on the how much they can increase prices - say 15p/kWh for off-peak and 20p/kWh for peak and 50p for the daily standing charge well you get my drift!
    Originally posted by Cardew
    I do get your drift, Cardew - good point! I could cling on to my lovely heating tariff only to have E.ON jack up the price outrageously! I think that there are some controls on what suppliers can do to customers who are 'stuck' with electric heating, so I think (hope!) that I'd be OK.

    But this just reinforces that, for me (and, I imagine, other electricity consumers), this whole promotion of 'switching' and a 'free' energy market just rings false. OK, I like to think I'm a relatively savvy and well-informed chap, but blimey, how am I supposed to deal with an energy behemoth like E.ON when they seem to hold all the information? Hence my question in post #4 about suppliers' obligations to consumers on legacy tariffs, and, indeed, your own point about protection for customers in 'all-electric' properties.

    (For what it's worth, my current rates for heating are 8.76p per kWh with a daily 1.365p standing charge).

    *Why should 'odd' metering be a barrier to switching? Why can't I have two suppliers - one for my heating and one for everything else? Imagine that - maybe then I could switch my 'everything else' supplier and just have E.ON for my heating?
    • Rubidium
    • By Rubidium 9th Apr 16, 9:45 AM
    • 478 Posts
    • 271 Thanks
    Rubidium
    • #8
    • 9th Apr 16, 9:45 AM
    • #8
    • 9th Apr 16, 9:45 AM
    The forced withdrawal of this tariff is obviously only going to benefit the supplier and not their customers!

    It really is quite ironic that these suppliers are pushing smart meters onto us all and telling us how wonderful they are and yet they are withdrawing this restricted hour tariff due to the customer having an "old model electricity meter".

    The supplier should be liable to pay for any minor rewiring necessary to support a new single multirate meter.

    So much for these new smart meters that can't cope with simple mulitirate tariffs!
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 9th Apr 16, 10:08 AM
    • 26,058 Posts
    • 12,527 Thanks
    Cardew
    • #9
    • 9th Apr 16, 10:08 AM
    • #9
    • 9th Apr 16, 10:08 AM
    (For what it's worth, my current rates for heating are 8.76p per kWh with a daily 1.365p standing charge).

    *Why should 'odd' metering be a barrier to switching? Why can't I have two suppliers - one for my heating and one for everything else? Imagine that - maybe then I could switch my 'everything else' supplier and just have E.ON for my heating?
    Originally posted by Barnaby Chunder

    Firstly, regarding odd metering being a barrier to switching. To cater for your 'odd' situation another company would have to set up a new tariff. As every company uses a computer to generate accounts, the effort and expense involved in writing a new program to cater for that tariff would be prohibitive. Most companies don't offer an E10 tariff for that reason. Also for E7 metering, some companies will aggregate off-peak and peak consumption and treat as a single rate 24/7 tariff; others will not offer that choice.


    Whilst it doesn't affect the principle of your argument, 8.76p/kWh is not cheap. E7 tariffs are available for around 5P to 6p/kWh(with peak around 12p) and all electricity used in the house is at off-peak rates during the 7 hours.


    Indeed there are 24/7 single rate tariffs available for under 10p/kWh. I have just switched to the MSE(BGas) tariff and pay 8.79p/kWh albeit it is a dual fuel tariff.


    How much is your peak rate electricity?
  • E.ON Company Representative: Helena
    Hi Helena

    Thanks for your in-depth response, which summarises my supply arrangements very well! It is an all-electric property and there are two meters. On reading your reply, a number of questions spring to mind:



    Why are you reviewing these restricted hours tariffs (RHTs)? And when you say 'more appropriate', is that from my perspective or E.ON's? For example, my RHT for heating gives me 14½ hours of cheap(ish) electricity per day (21:00 - 08:30 (overnight), with an afternoon boost from 13:00 - 16:00). That's pretty appropriate for my needs. Why would I want to move to Economy 10 (which only gives me 10 hours) or Economy 7 (only 7 hours)?

    You see, when you send me letters saying "When we withdraw your tariff later this year…", I fear that you want to take my totally appropriate heating tariff away from me. And despite all the stuff about 'old' meters and 'old' tariffs, I suspect the real reason you want to withdraw my tariff is that it's rather a good one - for me.

    Hmmm… I'm not sure what to make of your response, footyguy, but thanks anyway. I'm not sure if 'support your supply' is a mistake or a wry joke! But regardless - E.ON writing to me to say that they're withdrawing my tariff does not really constitute supporting a 'legacy' tariff (if, indeed, that's what I've got).

    Helena/footyguy - are there any rules or guidelines as to what constitutes a 'legacy' tariff, and the obligations suppliers have in relation to them?
    Originally posted by Barnaby Chunder
    Good morning Barnaby Chunder,

    Can I just say thanks to everyone for their help with this

    Really these are generally old meters and are nearing the end of their life and we need to ensure meters are recording usage accurately.

    I don't have all the specific details and it's the reason we've got a team dealing with it and they'll have all the knowledge to be able to help you further.

    I do understand your concerns and that's why I want you to get in touch with the right people here, just let me know.

    Thank you

    Helena
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • ratsmum
    • By ratsmum 17th Oct 16, 8:04 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    ratsmum
    I come late to this thread and have found it after a forum search, because I have had the same letter from Eon as Barnaby about changing my, 'outdated meter' and moving me from an RHT underfloor heating only tariff which suits me perfectly. The thing is, I don't have an outdated black meter from the 1970s - because the timer had a fault, I had a spanking new digital meter fitted in 2011 for the RHT tariff. The rest of my electricity consumption is metered separately on a regular 24h tariff.

    My big worry about an Economy 10 meter is the timer: currently my RHT meter only operates for the allotted 14.5 hours and is off for the remaining time, therefore acting in effect as a timer for the heating system. As I understand it, E10 will continue to consume electricity at a normal rate outside the 10 hours economy tariff. This means my u/floor heating will effectively be ON 24/7 and my bills will rocket. Is there any way to set the new meter also to be off outside the 10 hours - or am I going to have to pay (probably a lot) for the installation of some separate u/floor heating timing system?
  • E.ON Company Representative: Helena
    I come late to this thread and have found it after a forum search, because I have had the same letter from Eon as Barnaby about changing my, 'outdated meter' and moving me from an RHT underfloor heating only tariff which suits me perfectly. The thing is, I don't have an outdated black meter from the 1970s - because the timer had a fault, I had a spanking new digital meter fitted in 2011 for the RHT tariff. The rest of my electricity consumption is metered separately on a regular 24h tariff.

    My big worry about an Economy 10 meter is the timer: currently my RHT meter only operates for the allotted 14.5 hours and is off for the remaining time, therefore acting in effect as a timer for the heating system. As I understand it, E10 will continue to consume electricity at a normal rate outside the 10 hours economy tariff. This means my u/floor heating will effectively be ON 24/7 and my bills will rocket. Is there any way to set the new meter also to be off outside the 10 hours - or am I going to have to pay (probably a lot) for the installation of some separate u/floor heating timing system?
    Originally posted by ratsmum
    Good morning ratsmum,

    I'm sorry for the delay in getting back to you, I've been gathering a bit more information for your specific post.

    I think at the moment we're pausing offering a meter exchange to customers like yourself (14 hours or more off peak RHT) with your set up, we're looking at other options that would fit better with this system.

    We do have a team dealing with the 'complex meter' exchanges and I've fed your post back to the people that are managing this.

    Thank you.

    Helena
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
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