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    • Team_Sovereign
    • By Team_Sovereign 2nd Apr 16, 3:30 PM
    • 10Posts
    • 12Thanks
    Team_Sovereign
    VCS.... Again
    • #1
    • 2nd Apr 16, 3:30 PM
    VCS.... Again 2nd Apr 16 at 3:30 PM
    Hello to all on the MSE forum. Firstly I would really like to add my thanks along with those already offered for the amount of work you guys have put into the PPC guides with all the advice, links, replies and overall effort. Sadly I am another one of these guys who appear from nowhere expecting you to give me your time to help me fight off a 'PCN'. That much is true but I am genuinely grateful for your help and any associated advice.

    This is my second run in with VCS, the first being at Doncaster Airport. That time was simple because I was on the premises for work and a quick phone call to the airport director had the 'charge' removed immediately.

    Now onto the current saga with VCS.

    In short, two weeks ago we may have overstayed our welcome in a free car park in a retail area of our small North Yorkshire town on evening. Earlier this week my other half (as RK) got one of the invoices from VCS because their ANPR logged our overstay (1hr over during the evening) and provided the usual dark grainy photos which only allow you to make out the number plate, its difficult to even make out the car. We genuinely did not know this car park was monitored and unaware of the time limit... but that's irrelevant.

    The 14-day reduced pay up period ends this Tuesday (05/04/16) - they imply you need to appeal by then just to stick with the reduced charge.....

    I have done the usual research on here and have also since noted VCS/Excell/whatever have opted recently to go with IPC and the kangaroo court IAS for appeal.

    After careful reading of all the posts and advice on here, I will follow the appeal route to show willing to jump their hoops if it goes to court while following other lines of attack. More on that in a minute.

    To muddy the waters somewhat, the whole reason for the overstay was because I had returned home from the Middle East, where I work, for a few days. We were there to get some shopping, see friends and family. I am also now a resident of one of the countries over here. My other half is the RK to the car and she's alone at home with the prospect of the inevitable threatening letters etc, I am dealing with VCS (and you kind folks) from a distance which is frustrating.

    Currently I am seeking your advice - firstly on declining their very kind invitation to pay. While also following up one of the retailers, Sainsburys, who share the same car park to try and have this charge swotted that way.

    Another bright spark of an idea, because I really don't want my missus having any undue stress and anxiety from these parasites - is for her to suggest I may have been the driver that night and these guys can come chase me out here in the Middle East (I even have a postal address for them ). Is such an idea doomed to fail? - I guess so...

    After looking through the numerous threads and the letter to decline to pay a PPC specifically registered with IPC. I have drafted the below and would welcome any comment.

    ---------------------------------------

    DearVehicle Control Services Ltd

    Re PCN number: XXXXXXXXXX

    I am not ignoring your charge for a purported parking infraction. As this is purely a charge (not a statutory penalty) issued under a purported contract and the driver has not been identified, I require the following information so that I can make an informed decision:

    1. Who is the party that contracted with your company for the provision of their services? I require their contact details.
    2. What is the full legal identity of the landowner?
    3. As you are not the landowner please provide a contemporaneous and unredacted copy of your contract with the landholder that demonstrate that you have their authority to both issue parking charges and litigate in your own name.
    4. Is your charge based on damages for breach of contract? Answer yes or no.
    5. If the charge is based on damages for breach of contract please provide your justification of this sum.
    6. Is your charge based on a contractually agreed sum for the provision of parking? Answer yes or no.
    7. If the charge is based on a contractually agreed sum for the provision of parking please provide a valid VAT invoice for this 'service'.
    8. Please provide a copy of the signs that purportedly were on site which you contend formed a contract with the driver on that occasion.

    If you believe you have a cause of action, send a Letter before Claim within the next 21 days and I will take advice and will respond. Do not send debt collector letters I will not respond to these and take seriously any communication, in any form from a third-party collection as harassment and deal with these actions as such.

    In my opinion, there is a better alternative than legal proceedings, namely that we utilise the services of a completely independent ADR service suited to parking charges. This does not include the IAS appeal service for the following reasons:
    The DVLA and the CTSI are well aware of the shortcomings of the IAS appeals service, which is currently being investigated by both of them. The legislation does give an ADR Entity six months to improve its processes and meet the legislation.

    I therefore believe that the IAS is not a fit body to use until both the DVLA and CTSI have finished their investigations, and the body has changed its processes to meet the legislation. I would be prepared to wait until this point in time if you agree.


    Failing that, I propose that instead of the IAS, we use an ADR Entity which does currently meet all the regulatory requirements right now. One such body is the Consumer Ombudsman available at this website (CO site link).


    I propose we use this body. Please note that practice directions state the court may impose sanctions if you unreasonably refuse to use a form of ADR, or fail to respond at all to an invitation to do so.


    I repeat, do not send debt collector letters and do not add any costs or surcharges. I will not respond to those, so to involve another firm would be a failure to mitigate your alleged loss. In any case, the addition of any debt collector 'costs' is not my liability because the POFA 2012 can only potentially hold a registered keeper liable if certain provisions have been met and even then, the 'amount of the parking charge' is the only amount pursuable.

    Yours faithfully,




    -------------------------------------------------------


    My apologies for the long initial post. If there's anything I can correct please let me know.


    From research on here, PePiPoo and Parking Prankster I see an appeal through the kangaroo court is likely doomed to fail, but I will show willingness to jump their hoops as well as kindly suggest another ADR to appeal to. I am also deeply serious about pursuing harassment if they start with silly letters. This has nothing to do about the 60quid charge (or whatever that amount may be) its about these parasites going about business in this manor, i'm happy to throw a chunk of change to follow up that threat to them.


    Once gain folks, thank you. :-)
Page 2
    • Team_Sovereign
    • By Team_Sovereign 22nd May 16, 1:04 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Team_Sovereign
    Speaking to my office manager just now, he has suggested it is best to reply via post..... in Arabic, he is happy to translate the letter for me
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 22nd May 16, 1:07 PM
    • 5,381 Posts
    • 4,902 Thanks
    pappa golf
    Speaking to my office manager just now, he has suggested it is best to reply via post..... in Arabic, he is happy to translate the letter for me
    Originally posted by Team_Sovereign



    go for it!




    if they want to take the !!!!




    you do it back
    Have YOU had to walk 500 miles?
    Were you advised to walk 500 more?
    You could be entitled to compensation.
    Call the Pro Claimers NOW.
    • Herzlos
    • By Herzlos 22nd May 16, 6:03 PM
    • 4,072 Posts
    • 3,553 Thanks
    Herzlos
    In my opinion actually sending something from your overseas address admitting you were the driver would be a good idea just in case they try to renew the attack your other half back in the UK.
    Originally posted by Fruitcake
    Generally, if the driver ignores entirely, the PPC will just go back to the keeper.

    Who knows how they'll handle an arabic letter, that'll be interesting to see.

    I'd be inclined to just send them something simple that acknowledges you were the driver but aren't going to pay "Sorry about the overstay. However, as this was a free car park and I didn't see any signs, I am not liable"

    They can't really go back to the keeper, as you've confirmed being the driver, and they can't actually do anything with you either. You'll likely get a lot of junk mail at both addresses, but the RK should be lodging a complaint for every one she recieves.
    • Team_Sovereign
    • By Team_Sovereign 9th Oct 16, 11:25 AM
    • 10 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Team_Sovereign
    Little Update
    Hello folks,

    Bit of an update from me, seeking opinions and thoughts on how to move forward mostly because I don't reside in the UK at the moment.

    I left the Middle East on a month long trip, when I came back to our office the kind folks at VCS went to the trouble of sending me a nice letter from the UK (its wonderful to receive letters from home).

    In short and as expected VCS rejected my appeal to them, their standard response laid out how they adhere to IPC Code of Practice and how I could either pay now or take it to the kangaroo court.

    In their VCS letterhead correspondence they refer to themselves therein as Excel Parking, same company. Just wondered if that might be relevant later.

    A couple of issues I have are down to the fact the post system over here is not the quickest and the fact my job takes me out of the area for a month at a time means there's a good delay between communications, this was mentioned for their benefit when I replied to them.

    Unfortunately for me their invitation to appeal to IAS has long since expired... it head already expired by a couple of months when the letter was delivered....

    So, my question now is... what is the best thing to do? - try to appeal to the IAS anyway to jump through the hoops... reply to my new friends at VCS or just ignore?

    One concern with ignoring them is i do not want these guys or their agents to revert to harassing the RK.

    Second concern is it has been brought to my attention that they can try and issue a county court claim against my last known address, I would not come to hear about this until I return to the UK (probably to buy property) and then have the headache of having it set aside and all the other fun stuff that goes with it.

    Anyone with some advice on this matter would be greatly appreciated. I Would have gladly jumped through the IAS hoops but with the lead times on snail mail out here i'm kind of stuck.

    Thanks again to all the kind folks on here lending their time to help individuals like me caught up in these antics.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Oct 16, 2:24 PM
    • 40,470 Posts
    • 52,376 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Unfortunately for me their invitation to appeal to IAS has long since expired... it head already expired by a couple of months when the letter was delivered....
    That's not unfortunate. You'd have lost at IAS, the 'kangaroo court' as posters here describe it.

    Second concern is it has been brought to my attention that they can try and issue a county court claim against my last known address, I would not come to hear about this until I return to the UK (probably to buy property) and then have the headache of having it set aside and all the other fun stuff that goes with it.
    They can't actually do this if your last known address is abroad. I would reply concisely and assertively, by email and keep a copy, telling them again that you are out of jurisdiction for English courts and prohibiting them from writing to your old UK address, as that would harass the people living there and would be an abuse of process and unfair business practice in the extreme, as well as flouting the pre-action Protocol.

    Then do this:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5524754&page=6

    You won't have a local MP at the moment but your OH does. She and you (in joint names signed at the bottom) should write to her MP and to Mrs May and the DCLG, pointing out what is happening to you as a family at the moment:

    the whole reason for the overstay was because I had returned home from the Middle East, where I work, for a few days. We were there to get some shopping, see friends and family. I am also now a resident of one of the countries over here. My other half is the RK to the car and she's alone at home with the prospect of the inevitable threatening letters etc,
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 10-10-2016 at 10:53 AM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Team_Sovereign
    • By Team_Sovereign 10th Oct 16, 10:03 AM
    • 10 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Team_Sovereign
    Hi Coupon-Mad,

    Thank you for taking the time to reply, I will follow the steps you recommend and see what they try next. At least they like to send me letters from my home country... every cloud and all that :-D
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