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  • FIRST POST
    • Beewi
    • By Beewi 27th Mar 16, 10:20 PM
    • 28Posts
    • 44Thanks
    Beewi
    Premier Parking Solutions PCN
    • #1
    • 27th Mar 16, 10:20 PM
    Premier Parking Solutions PCN 27th Mar 16 at 10:20 PM
    Hi folks,

    Like many others, I have also received a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) from Premier Parking Solutions following a stay at Fore Street, Totnes car park. I received a letter in the post addressed to me, advising that '...we have been informed that you were the keeper of vehicle registration number XXXX XXX and that the vehicle was observed to have contravened the parking regulations as clearly set down and displayed on signage in the car park.'

    The letter goes on to give the times of me entering and departing the location, with photographic evidence of my vehicle, followed by...'Therefore it has been demonstrated that the vehicle has remained at the location for longer than permitted or no pay and display ticket was purchased, thereby contravening the parking regulations advertised on the signage on site.'

    I appealed to PPS because I believed that I had received the PCN for over staying the car park by 6 minutes, which is easily done. Unfortunately I mistakenly revealed that I was the driver of the vehicle. However PPS rejected my appeal on the grounds that...'The vehicle was found to have parked on site without payment having been made to validate its stay.' They attached a screenshot of the whitelist showing all sessions against my vehicle registration, which shows that there was no payment made on the day.

    I know for a fact that I paid for 3 hours parking, at around £3-£4, however in the absence of the parking ticket, how can I prove it? I have looked at previous threads showing appeal letters to POPLA, but these do not seem relevant to my situation and I am unsure where to start.

    Can anyone please advise what my best course of action should be? According to PPS, I have until 31/03/16 to pay £60 or until 07/04/16 to appeal to POPLA - a POPLA code has been provided by PPS.

    Thanks
Page 4
    • Beewi
    • By Beewi 30th Jun 16, 9:45 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 44 Thanks
    Beewi
    POPLA Complaint OUTCOME
    Hi folks,

    I have some fantastic news for you all.....WE WON! POPLA have finally seen sense and allowed my appeal

    I can't say thank you enough for all of your help and advice, in particular Pulpotim & Coupon-mad. Justice has at long last prevailed! I am relieved beyond belief and glad for it to be over with; there is nothing more exhausting and frustrating than trying to prove your innocence.

    And so for the final piece of the jigsaw, please see below the response from POPLA:-

    Your parking charge Appeal against Premier Parking Solutions.

    Thank you for your patience while we considered the information provided for your Appeal.

    We have now reached the end of the Appeal process and have come to a decision. The decision is final and there is no further option for Appeal.

    The Operator issued parking charge notice number A5009899, arising out of the presence of a vehicle with registration mark Sxxx xxx.

    The Appellant Appealed against liability for the parking charge.

    The Assessor has considered the evidence provided by both parties and has determined that the Appeal be Allowed.

    The Operator should now cancel the parking charge.

    Assessors summary of operators case:

    The operator’s case is that the appellant failed to make a valid payment for parking.

    Assessors summary of appellants case:

    The appellant’s case is that she purchased and displayed a ticket for parking. She states that the NTK is not compliant with the British Parking Association Code of Practice as it does not state the reasonable cause for applying to the DVLA, and that the requirement to allow a grace period was not complied with. She states that the requirements to quality check ANPR data were not met, and that the signage on site was inadequate and unclear. She states that the amount does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss and is therefore a penalty and unenforceable. She also states that the operator does not have authority of the landowner to conduct parking management on the site in question.

    Reasons for the Assessor’s determination: The appellant has raised a number of grounds for appeal. The following decision will focus on the ground of inadequate or unclear signage, as this ground has persuaded me to allow the appeal.

    The operator has supplied photographic evidence which shows the appellant’s vehicle, registration Sxxx xxx, entering the Fore Street Totnes car park on 27 February 2016 at 13:49. The vehicle departed at 16:56, and was on site for a total of three hours and seven minutes. The log supplied by the operator demonstrates that no payment was allocated to the Vehicle Registration Number (VRN) in question.

    The operator advises that the terms and conditions require payment to be made for parking. It states that the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) was issued for unauthorised parking, and that the appellant had remained on site for longer than permitted, or failed to purchase parking. It has supplied a copy of the payment log for the date in question, which shows that a payment was not made for registration Sxxx xxx.

    The appellant states that she was unaware of any requirement to enter an exact VRN. Section 18 of the Code of Practice states that the operator should use signs to inform motorists of what the terms and conditions of parking are. Further, Section 18.3 of the Code of Practice states, “You must place signs containing the specific parking terms throughout the site, so that drivers are given the chance to read them at the time of parking or leaving their vehicle…Signs must be conspicuous and legible, and written in intelligible language, so that they are easy to see, read and understand.”

    Within its response, the operator has supplied photographic evidence of the signage on site. Some of these are date stamped December 2016, and some are not date stamped. The date-stamped photographs are not clear enough to make out the detailed terms and conditions of parking. The photographs of the signage which are clear are not date stamped, and from these, I can see that the signage on site has been amended at some point with an International Parking Community logo and a sticker over the existing terms and conditions.

    As such, I am unable to determine what signage was in place on the date of the parking event, and whether the driver was sufficiently notified of the terms and conditions of parking, or the circumstances in which a PCN would be issued.

    It is the responsibility of the operator to provide clear and concise evidence to show that the appellant has not adhered to the terms and conditions set out at the site. As such, I cannot confirm whether the operator has issued the PCN correctly.

    Accordingly, the Appeal is Allowed.

    Yours sincerely

    Siobhan Gooley
    LT6109/003
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 30th Jun 16, 10:58 PM
    • 40,629 Posts
    • 52,503 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I can't say thank you enough for all of your help and advice, in particular Pulpotim & Coupon-mad. Justice has at long last prevailed! I am relieved beyond belief and glad for it to be over with; there is nothing more exhausting and frustrating than trying to prove your innocence.
    Fantastic news! Yours is the first one we've seen on forums where POPLA have re-heard a case and overturned a wrong decision. We heard about that only this week, as blogged by the Parking Prankster:

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/06/popla-will-rehear-cases-on-procedural.html

    Seems it was a change in policy forced on POPLA by ISPA.

    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Ralph-y
    • By Ralph-y 30th Jun 16, 10:58 PM
    • 2,248 Posts
    • 2,731 Thanks
    Ralph-y
    so .......

    this looks like the first we / I have seen re

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/06/popla-will-rehear-cases-on-procedural.html

    so Beewi well done for perseverance

    Ralph
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 1st Jul 16, 5:55 AM
    • 9,491 Posts
    • 8,265 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    Congratulations. However, once again it seems to me that overlong appeals and comments often obscure the nugget that is a winner. Assessors then glaze over and fall into "another forum template" mode and skim read.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 1st Jul 16, 7:04 PM
    • 40,629 Posts
    • 52,503 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Not really. The nugget was in the comments and POPLA were just too quick to ignore them.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • pulpotim1960
    • By pulpotim1960 24th Jul 16, 12:57 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    pulpotim1960
    Hi Beewi,
    Absolutely fantastic news - I'm so pleased for you - very well done.

    It's an absolute disgrace that we all have to go through such $hite for justice to prevail. So many people don't have the time or the skill sets required to wade through long and dull documents in order to put forward a well constructed and logical appeal. Still, I suppose in the context of recent events in Munich and Nice, all this stuff is quite trivial and we should count our lucky stars that we don't have much more serious issues to contend with. That said, it doesn't stop me from having childish fantasies about disabling Premier Parking Solution's ANPR cameras in all their car parks!!!

    Well done again Beewi - your news has made my day.
    • Beewi
    • By Beewi 27th Jul 16, 8:40 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 44 Thanks
    Beewi
    Debt Recovery Plus Ltd
    Just wanted to say thank you once again, this time for your kind and encouraging comments, i'm still smiling about this small yet rewarding victory . However I am once again seeking your help and advice.

    Since the overturned appeal, I have received two $hitty letters from DRP (Debt Recovery Plus Ltd) demanding payment. Is it my responsibility to tell them that the POPLA appeal was allowed or should I ignore these letters and assume that POPLA have informed PPS of the over turned decision and so consequently the matter is now closed?
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 27th Jul 16, 8:53 PM
    • 1,726 Posts
    • 2,374 Thanks
    fisherjim
    Just wanted to say thank you once again, this time for your kind and encouraging comments, i'm still smiling about this small yet rewarding victory . However I am once again seeking your help and advice.

    Since the overturned appeal, I have received two $hitty letters from DRP (Debt Recovery Plus Ltd) demanding payment. Is it my responsibility to tell them that the POPLA appeal was allowed or should I ignore these letters and assume that POPLA have informed PPS of the over turned decision and so consequently the matter is now closed?
    Originally posted by Beewi
    Personally Iwouldn't waste my time on them, you could however send a complaint to The BPA for what good they are.
    To quote the words of the great Count Arthur Strong "You Couldn't make it up"
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 27th Jul 16, 9:13 PM
    • 11,044 Posts
    • 16,479 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    ^^ +1 ^^. Definitely do this! Why should you continue to be hassled? Repay the misery!
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • Beewi
    • By Beewi 30th Aug 16, 10:18 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 44 Thanks
    Beewi
    BPA Complaint re: Debt Recovery Plus
    Hi folks,

    Just to keep you updated.

    Further to fisherjim's suggestion, I emailed the BPA on 20/07/16 to report Debt Recovery Plus (DRP) . The matter has been referred to the AOS Investigation Team, however they are still waiting on further information from the operator (Premier Parking Solutions), surprise surprise!

    I have now received four letters from DRP, at first demanding payment and more recently threatening court action. Their tactics are intimidating and deceptive and their constant bombardment is nothing short of harassment.

    I am disgusted that companies such as DRP can get away with this appalling behaviour, especially in view of the fact that I am not even liable for the parking charge!

    Watch this space...
    • Beewi
    • By Beewi 10th Oct 16, 11:14 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 44 Thanks
    Beewi
    BPA Complaint re: Debt Recovery Plus
    Hi folks,

    At long last, I have finally had some resolution from the BPA regarding my complaint about Debt Recovery Plus (DRP). The response email from Joanna Barnes in the AOS Investigation Team dated 29/09/16 is shown below.

    ---
    PCN CANCELLED

    Thank you very much for your patience whilst this has been looked into. It transpires that POPLA had initially ruled against your appeal, but following a review had altered their outcome. The operator has contacted us today and has agreed to cancel the charge. Subsequently any debt collection proceedings should cease also.

    The Approved Operator Scheme and its Code of Practice was developed by the BPA to bring a degree of regularity to an industry without primary legislation, and the BPA has worked hard to improve standards in the private parking sector in the knowledge there is no regulation of it. The AOS Code since its inception in 2007 has delivered significant improvements to the way operators manage their clients land. I hope this helps to assure you no charges are outstanding and the matter has been concluded by both the parking operator and the debt recovery agent, and would like to thank you for taking the time to contact us with your concerns.

    In light of the above we are now concluding our case.

    Yours sincerely,

    Joanna Barnes
    AOS Investigation Team
    Email: aos@britishparking.co.uk
    Web: www.britishparking.co.uk
    ---
    • Beewi
    • By Beewi 10th Oct 16, 11:19 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 44 Thanks
    Beewi
    Over and Out!
    This now concludes the whole PPS, POPLA & DRP saga, which first started back in February 2016! To anyone reading my case from the beginning, I sincerely hope that you find some nuggets to help you win your case against these parking crooks.

    In my experience, perseverance pays off, so don't give in and never give up!

    Good luck folks!
    • dafad_dew
    • By dafad_dew 17th Oct 16, 7:00 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    dafad_dew
    Premier Parking Solutions - Totnes again!
    Just to let you know that PPS is still up to its tricks on the car park just off Fore Street in Totnes.
    I've had a notice, and know for a fact a ticket was bought (but can't find it now, unfortunately).
    Have sent mail contesting, and will let you know how I get on.


    DD.
    • dllive
    • By dllive 28th Nov 16, 11:00 AM
    • 338 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    dllive
    This has happened to me at the same car park in Totnes last week! (20th November).
    Luckily I kept my ticket , but when comparing my ticket with the Notice to Keeper letter I realised I had missed one character off my VRN! Surely I can appeal this quite easily!? Ive been reading posts on this forum for 2 hours trying to figure out what my next move should be! :/
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 28th Nov 16, 1:47 PM
    • 40,629 Posts
    • 52,503 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    This has happened to me at the same car park in Totnes last week! (20th November).
    Luckily I kept my ticket , but when comparing my ticket with the Notice to Keeper letter I realised I had missed one character off my VRN! Ive been reading posts on this forum for 2 hours trying to figure out what my next move should be! :/
    Originally posted by dllive
    Just read the NEWBIES thread but this one does not help you. PPS are no longer in the BPA AOS scheme so you will get no POPLA offered. Read thje NEWBIES thread about IPC/IAS and do not go to second stage appeal.

    Post #3 of the NEWBIES thread explains where you will be at (ignoring daft letters for months) after just one challenge. Sadly no POPLA!

    Surely I can appeal this quite easily!?
    No chance, sorry. If it was a real Council PCN, then yes. Even with POPLA it's a battle these days. IAS - no chance, do not try.

    NOT with this industry but DO NOT PAY IT, THAT's NEVER FAIR ON THE NEXT PEOPLE WHOSE PCNS YOU WOULD BE FUNDING!

    I seem to recall PPS might have been a company known for faulty machines that miss off the first digit of a VRN.

    Was yours the first digit? Please start a new thread, not here!!
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • dllive
    • By dllive 28th Nov 16, 2:19 PM
    • 338 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    dllive
    Sorry Coupon-mad, I did start a new thread and then I saw this one which was the same problem at the same location as mine. My original thread is at: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=71680515#post71680515 so I will switch back to that one.


    I seem to recall PPS might have been a company known for faulty machines that miss off the first digit of a VRN.

    Was yours the first digit?
    Unfortunately not, it was the middle digit.
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