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    • darkvortex
    • By darkvortex 25th Feb 16, 11:35 AM
    • 6Posts
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    darkvortex
    Thames Water meters now compulsory?
    • #1
    • 25th Feb 16, 11:35 AM
    Thames Water meters now compulsory? 25th Feb 16 at 11:35 AM
    Hi people,
    Just looking for some advice, basically Thames water have sent a letter out saying they will be fitting SMART water meters in the next month or so.
    I did call them up to try to opt out but they say it is compulsory, Government backed and I have no opt out and also keep quoting 'Section 162 of the water indistry act 1991' even though a 2014 letter from DEFRA state it is not compulsory for water company's to install meters even in areas of severe water stress.

    They could not even answer exactly what other legistation they have and just said I need to search the Government legistation website.

    I did advise I would not give them access to the property if the meter needed to be installed on site but they said they will just install it on the outside of the property.

    Now put aside the point that a water meter is fair and probably would save money, I just prefer to pay a fixed rate a year (even if it increases per year).
    I just don't want a water meter and want to know if there is any legal way to challenge this installation as it seems unfair because at the end of the day Thames water are a monopoly (I can't just switch to better rates from an alternative supplier) and if they just fixed the 3-4 billion gallons of water lost from leaks they probably save more money instead of finding new ways to charge.

    thanks for any advice and apologises for the long post!

    A
Page 3
    • Tsaraslondon
    • By Tsaraslondon 25th Apr 17, 12:24 PM
    • 3 Posts
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    Tsaraslondon
    Does anyone know about this petition by 38 Degrees?

    As a new member I am not allowed to post links, apparently, but you can find it by typing "Stop smart meters petition" into google.

    I've just signed.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 25th Apr 17, 12:51 PM
    • 26,820 Posts
    • 12,997 Thanks
    Cardew
    Does anyone know about this petition by 38 Degrees?

    As a new member I am not allowed to post links, apparently, but you can find it by typing "Stop smart meters petition" into google.

    I've just signed.
    Originally posted by Tsaraslondon
    Welcome to the forum.

    This particular thread is about water meters.
    • Tsaraslondon
    • By Tsaraslondon 25th Apr 17, 2:04 PM
    • 3 Posts
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    Tsaraslondon
    Yes I understood that, but I also thought that the meters Thames Water want to install are in fact Smart Meters. Am I wrong?
    • macman
    • By macman 25th Apr 17, 11:12 PM
    • 41,290 Posts
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    macman
    No, they are smart meters. But there are two campaigns on 38 Degrees, one for smart meters in general, and one specifically for smart water meters in Haringey.
    No free lunch, and no free laptop
    • Tsaraslondon
    • By Tsaraslondon 26th Apr 17, 2:15 PM
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    Tsaraslondon
    No, they are smart meters. But there are two campaigns on 38 Degrees, one for smart meters in general, and one specifically for smart water meters in Haringey.
    Originally posted by macman
    I don't live in Haringey. Anyway I'm objecting to smart meters in general. It's just that Thames Water is trying to force me to have one at the moment.
    • macman
    • By macman 29th Apr 17, 5:58 PM
    • 41,290 Posts
    • 16,954 Thanks
    macman
    I don't live in Haringey. Anyway I'm objecting to smart meters in general. It's just that Thames Water is trying to force me to have one at the moment.
    Originally posted by Tsaraslondon
    They have a legal right to fit a meter if they wish to do so. You will then have two years before you have to switch to metered billing-or you can switch sooner if your bills are reduced.
    Since you accept that it's fairer, and probably cheaper, I am unclear quite what your objection is?
    No free lunch, and no free laptop
    • MattE9
    • By MattE9 8th May 17, 11:35 AM
    • 5 Posts
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    MattE9
    Water Meters are a significant pressure on consumers to manage their water use correctly. Clean water is a precious resource - still unavailable to many many millions in the world, 1000s of whom die every single day because of diseases due to lack of clean water.
    If the OP doesn't currently manage their water use sustainably a meter might just make them do that.
    • JaiP94
    • By JaiP94 9th May 17, 4:57 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    JaiP94
    To clear the facts up - the government have just given them power to install compulsary water meters if they want to in areas with severe water distress. So basically they can if they want and the government won't stop them.
    • KenWilson
    • By KenWilson 30th May 17, 12:55 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    KenWilson
    So how much would the meter setup cost?
    Any idea folks?
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 30th May 17, 1:16 PM
    • 26,820 Posts
    • 12,997 Thanks
    Cardew
    So how much would the meter setup cost?
    Any idea folks?
    Originally posted by KenWilson
    It is free, with all water companies
    • den32amg
    • By den32amg 4th Jul 17, 2:21 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    den32amg
    This to me smacks of BT, a monopoly. Where the customer paid for the replacing of their cables in the 1990s. Then with cameron allowing americanisation, distroyed the word " contract ", then 3 rises a year.
    Thames should be made to repair all existing leaks, have a legal response time frame for repairs, then go for meters. However, I still think that this is a con for future years, as all large private companies has friends on the government. Look at lloyds bank, public shares only sold to private investors.
    • Laughing Boy
    • By Laughing Boy 4th Jul 17, 6:15 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Laughing Boy
    Smart or Safe ?
    It seems to me that Thames Water have the right to install a meter to monitor usage but they do not have the right to install a Smart meter. I personally am happy to pay for the water I use (seems only fair) but am not happy to have a radiation-emitting, information-collecting, hackable device in my home. I may formally refuse consent for a Smart meter and ask for a standard meter - if they refuse then it is they who are not co-operating, not me.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 4th Jul 17, 7:13 PM
    • 26,820 Posts
    • 12,997 Thanks
    Cardew
    It seems to me that Thames Water have the right to install a meter to monitor usage but they do not have the right to install a Smart meter. I personally am happy to pay for the water I use (seems only fair) but am not happy to have a radiation-emitting, information-collecting, hackable device in my home. I may formally refuse consent for a Smart meter and ask for a standard meter - if they refuse then it is they who are not co-operating, not me.
    Originally posted by Laughing Boy
    I agree with your sentiments about smart meters.

    I wonder if an amendment to terms and conditions would make them compulsory. Or would it take an amendment to 'The Water Act'.
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 4th Jul 17, 7:53 PM
    • 2,980 Posts
    • 1,754 Thanks
    matelodave
    It seems to me that Thames Water have the right to install a meter to monitor usage but they do not have the right to install a Smart meter. I personally am happy to pay for the water I use (seems only fair) but am not happy to have a radiation-emitting, information-collecting, hackable device in my home. I may formally refuse consent for a Smart meter and ask for a standard meter - if they refuse then it is they who are not co-operating, not me.
    Originally posted by Laughing Boy
    You carry a device around with you all day that knows much more about you than anything else.

    It knows where you are (even if you've got the GPS turned off). It knows what phone calls, texts or other messages you send and receive. It also knows a lot of your passwords and even your bank account info if you use mobile banking.

    It's also emitting far more radiation around your nether regions when it's in your pocket or directly into your head when you are using it than any smart gas, leccy or water meter. It's also a lot more hackable.
    Last edited by matelodave; 04-07-2017 at 7:59 PM.
    Love makes the world go round - beer make it go round even faster
    • Laughing Boy
    • By Laughing Boy 5th Jul 17, 9:57 AM
    • 25 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Laughing Boy
    You carry a device around with you all day that knows much more about you than anything else.
    Originally posted by matelodave
    No I do not.

    It knows where you are
    Originally posted by matelodave
    No it doesn't.

    More importantly a mobile phone can always be left at home or turned off. The consumer has a choice. Likewise there should be a choice whether to have a smart meter or a standard dumb meter.
    Last edited by Laughing Boy; 06-07-2017 at 1:24 PM.
    • Raxiel
    • By Raxiel 10th Jul 17, 5:12 PM
    • 312 Posts
    • 151 Thanks
    Raxiel
    It seems to me that Thames Water have the right to install a meter to monitor usage but they do not have the right to install a Smart meter. I personally am happy to pay for the water I use (seems only fair) but am not happy to have a radiation-emitting, information-collecting, hackable device in my home. I may formally refuse consent for a Smart meter and ask for a standard meter - if they refuse then it is they who are not co-operating, not me.
    Originally posted by Laughing Boy
    Just how smart are these water meters anyway? I have a meter that was described as being 'smart' but all that really means is it can be read remotely. Specifically, when a Severn Trent van drives past and pings the meter with the right frequency, it pings back with it's serial number and current reading. There's no logging of usage against time, and it can't be hacked since the actual reading is mechanical.

    Are the Thames ones more sophisticated?
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