Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • braquo99
    • By braquo99 13th Feb 16, 5:48 PM
    • 6Posts
    • 3Thanks
    braquo99
    civil enforcement - country court letter
    • #1
    • 13th Feb 16, 5:48 PM
    civil enforcement - country court letter 13th Feb 16 at 5:48 PM
    Hi all followed all the advice and been ignoring letters from CEL since 2013.

    Now received a claim form letter from County Court Business Centre.

    I have responded to say i will appeal but should i do anything? i didnt think these guys took things this far from what i read? maybe im the unlucky one.

    I dont have any of the letters they sent me and its so long ago i cant remember what it was i did to get the fine - i do know the car park in question doesnt exist any longer i think its a supermarket now...

    Any advice is appreciated.

    Thanks
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 13th Feb 16, 6:07 PM
    • 12,463 Posts
    • 14,880 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 13th Feb 16, 6:07 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Feb 16, 6:07 PM
    yep , read the forum lol (there are several similar threads this week and parking prankster blogged about it too , you are not alone)

    and use advanced edit to alter the thread title , its County , not Country , no R

    see this thread for starters

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5411283

    and also sign this petition and get others to do the same too

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/111925

    to get some changes made

    ps:- its not a fine , its an invoice , a speculative invoice

    they have always had the option to take you to court, for 6 years following the incident, under small claims court procedures in the county court , or via Salford or Northampton centres

    the advice from march 2013 was to appeal a PPC parking charge in england and wales, not ignore it

    you can get the required paperwork by asking them for it via the court system in the court due process, after acknowledging the claim online, acknowledge only, do not put any defence in yet , follow the procedures laid out by bargepole in the link in post #1 of the NEWBIES sticky thread , or the pranksters court guide book

    here is pranksters latest blog

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/02/civil-enforcement-limited-carry-out.html

    the Barry Beavis saga started 3 years ago, and finished 3 months ago
    Last edited by Redx; 13-02-2016 at 6:36 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Feb 16, 7:40 PM
    • 40,623 Posts
    • 52,493 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 13th Feb 16, 7:40 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Feb 16, 7:40 PM
    Hi all followed all the advice and been ignoring letters from CEL since 2013.

    Now received a claim form letter from County Court Business Centre.

    I have responded to say i will appeal but should i do anything? i didnt think these guys took things this far from what i read? maybe im the unlucky one.

    I dont have any of the letters they sent me and its so long ago i cant remember what it was i did to get the fine - i do know the car park in question doesnt exist any longer i think its a supermarket now...

    Any advice is appreciated.

    Thanks
    Originally posted by braquo99
    Is the claimant CEL or DEAL?

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5398575

    http://legalbeagles.info/forums/showthread.php?61584-DEAL-CEL-Shwarts-Court-Claim-Won

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/co-op-confirm-they-have-not-cut-deal.html

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/cel-turn-up-to-court-50-cases-of.html

    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?446015-I-am-in-court-22nd-May!-CEAL-DEL-help!-**Discontinued-**

    Both CEL and DEAL have a habit of not turning up for a hearing (and trying to trick people into not attending too). But you need to defend this robustly. I'd say first of all read the NEWBIES thread post #1 which is mostly about appealing - skip that - but read the lower bit about small claims court. The links there will help you with your defence and with your understanding of what YOU MUST DO.

    I have responded to say i will appeal but should i do anything?
    Obviously, or you will lose by default. You don't mean 'appeal' you mean defend. Read this advice as well:

    https://bmpa.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/categories/200679189-Small-Claims-Court

    I really, really hope you just acknowledged the claim and left the defence box COMPLETELY BLANK? What date did you get the papers? You have 28 days to submit a defence from service of those court papers, if you have acknowledged the claim.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 13-02-2016 at 8:00 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • braquo99
    • By braquo99 13th Feb 16, 10:22 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    braquo99
    • #4
    • 13th Feb 16, 10:22 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Feb 16, 10:22 PM
    guys massive thank you for reading my post and responding!


    I received it on 05/02 (well only received it today as the letters they send and the claim form are not being set to my address)


    Sorry yes, I submitted the online form to say I will defend this.


    I will write to CEL now and post in the morning asking what it is they are seeking claims for and on whose behalf?. Should I then wait for their response and then write again asking for info on signage etc? will I get time to do all this within the 28 days limit? I guess I don't have long left now.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Feb 16, 1:36 AM
    • 40,623 Posts
    • 52,493 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #5
    • 14th Feb 16, 1:36 AM
    • #5
    • 14th Feb 16, 1:36 AM
    I will write to CEL now and post in the morning asking what it is they are seeking claims for and on whose behalf?
    You mean a Part 18 request, yes you could and make sure you ask for all three Notice to Keepers and all pictures of signage as well as proof that they were authorised by the landowner. You don't need to ask 'on whose behalf' because the parking firm is CEL and the claim is from CEL (not DEAL).


    Should I then wait for their response and then write again asking for info on signage etc? will I get time to do all this within the 28 days limit?
    Ask CEL everything you want to know/see in one go - see 'Part 18 requests' in the BMPA link given already. Do NOT wait for a response, you can't miss court paperwork deadlines! By acknowledging the claim, as long as you left the defence box completely blank (not even 'TBA'), you have 28 days from the date of service of the papers to then submit your defence.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • braquo99
    • By braquo99 14th Feb 16, 12:06 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    braquo99
    • #6
    • 14th Feb 16, 12:06 PM
    • #6
    • 14th Feb 16, 12:06 PM
    Thank you again,

    Ok so i will complete a letter (section 18) and send to CEL. If i understand right what i have read, they also must respond within 14 days of the county court letter i received - is that correct or do they have 14 days from when i posted the letter?

    Once i send that, i still have what ever is left of the 28 days to then complete the defense box...

    What if i dont get a response from CEL?(would/should i write that in the claim box?)

    Or what if i do, but it doesnt really help in my claim? eg they have photos of my car in the car park, they show that there were signs up etc?

    The fact is the car park isnt there anymore so how do i know if there were signs up and legit? is it too late to then pay the fine?
    • Redx
    • By Redx 14th Feb 16, 12:29 PM
    • 12,463 Posts
    • 14,880 Thanks
    Redx
    • #7
    • 14th Feb 16, 12:29 PM
    • #7
    • 14th Feb 16, 12:29 PM
    CEL have to prove their case because they are the claimant, so any defence of yours would seek to destroy or refute their claims, so you would check if their claim had locus standii (a contract to pursue claims in court, or if they owned the land, which they wont, - that the signage met the BPA CoP , that any paperwork met the relevant laws like POFA2012 , that the photos have not been doctored etc etc)

    there is no "fine", never was and never will be , you need to start using the correct legal terms and the word "fine" is not one of them , because of all the things it may be , its not a fine, its an invoice , a speculative invoice , so use correct terminology and not slang words as this is a real court case so you need to understand what is going on- I even told you its not a fine in post #2 , so attention to detail please

    there may be the chance of settlement at some point, which may or may not be the original charge that they put into the invoice, but they now have costs in starting a court claim so I doubt they will settle for less than the invoice charge plus costs

    this is a real court case so treat it like one, read and learn , query everything , accept nothing , read the guides and learn from others in a similar situation or who have been through this process before
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Feb 16, 7:18 PM
    • 40,623 Posts
    • 52,493 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 14th Feb 16, 7:18 PM
    • #8
    • 14th Feb 16, 7:18 PM
    You need to read what others have used for a defence at this early stage then you will have an idea what to set out as your defence points. You MUST state why the case differs from the Beavis case which you can find on other threads here and in the NEWBIES thread.

    You appear to be panicking when we've got loads of threads just like this already on the forum, plus examples of defences linked in the NEWBIES thread under 'small claims'. Show us what you put together as a defence after you've read loads of other court threads. There are lots of UKPC ones around here at the moment, don't just look for CEL defences.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 14-02-2016 at 7:21 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Feb 16, 11:39 PM
    • 40,623 Posts
    • 52,493 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 19th Feb 16, 11:39 PM
    • #9
    • 19th Feb 16, 11:39 PM
    Just to add a recent example (long) defence for CEL.

    Some might NOT relevant for you (e.g. if yours was a free car park you can't have the part about tariffs/Pay and Display and a 'simple finacial contract') but plenty of this is right for your defence - and shows you what to put at the start (and at the end as POPLA has not been tried yet):

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=70167855#post70167855

    Also read 70SRG's thread here and send him/her a private message to compare notes & get confidence together about what to do:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5415363


    HTH
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 19-02-2016 at 11:47 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • braquo99
    • By braquo99 17th Oct 16, 3:17 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    braquo99
    hi all, just wanted to give an update to this as i notice you dont see many replies seeing how people got on...

    I appealed to the County Court and copied one of the appeals i had found on this board and i never heard about it again - no response / reply etc etc. And this was back in Feb so im guessing (fingers crossed) this has gone away

    Thanks for all your advice and help
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 17th Oct 16, 4:48 PM
    • 11,030 Posts
    • 16,476 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Thanks for update, as you say, frustratingly many don't come back to let us know of outcomes, despite regulars giving so much of their own time to help a total stranger with his/her problem.

    Normally you should have received some form of communication from the court and/or the PPC. You haven't changed address since you received your last communication from them by any chance?

    My advice is to telephone the court (Northampton), who are very helpful, and ask for an update on the case. Do let us know how it goes.
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 17-10-2016 at 4:50 PM.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Oct 16, 8:55 PM
    • 40,623 Posts
    • 52,493 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    hi all, just wanted to give an update to this as i notice you dont see many replies seeing how people got on...

    I appealed to the County Court and copied one of the appeals i had found on this board and i never heard about it again - no response / reply etc etc. And this was back in Feb so im guessing (fingers crossed) this has gone away

    Thanks for all your advice and help
    Originally posted by braquo99
    Thanks for the update, very timely. I was just discussing with some other campaigners yesterday that we had seen no hearings evolve from MSE forum-defended cases from CEL (or Gladstones or BW Legal) and that the cases I can recall appeared to have 'quietly died away' right after a defence was filed.

    Updates like yours show other newbies that these ARE worth fighting.

    Did you even get a Directions Questionnaire from the court/any communication? Not even confirmation of the defence filed?
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

4,211Posts Today

6,523Users online

Martin's Twitter