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    • MSE Megan F
    • By MSE Megan F 3rd Nov 15, 8:15 PM
    • 112Posts
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    MSE Megan F
    School Holiday Fines
    • #1
    • 3rd Nov 15, 8:15 PM
    School Holiday Fines 3rd Nov 15 at 8:15 PM


    Hi all, we have a new School Holiday Fines guide, and we'd love to hear your feedback.

    Just click reply below to share any info. If you haven’t already, join the forum to reply. If you aren’t sure how it all works, read our New to Forum? Intro Guide.

    Thanks for your help,

    MSE Megan F
    Last edited by MSE Andrea; 04-11-2015 at 12:11 PM.

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Page 16
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 8th Jun 17, 4:27 PM
    • 15,668 Posts
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    FBaby
    I think what you're saying is that you've been fortunate enough to get away with not following the rules. You haven't paid any fines as your school has chosen to let you get away with it presumably because it was a genuine error. I also know that some schools, particularly in deprived areas, will allow children to take holidays because they want them to have some experiences outside school and having a holiday for them is truly exceptional.
    I know it is hard for some people strongly anti term-time holiday to believe that some teachers and heads are not as categorical about its negative impact as them.

    The reasons why I wasn't fine is that firstly I don't make a habit of it, secondly, my kids attendance is otherwise exemplary (no sick day last year, only one this year so far and that was as due to fever following the meningitis injection and thirdly, both of them are straight A students. The school doesn't believe that their education will be affected by a few days away (and indeed, they have always caught on what they've missed within a few days) and most importantly they have bigger fish to fry.

    The last time I took them out of 10 days, a number of teachers actually offered themselves to email them the learning they were missing.

    I'm not the type to go and shout about my rights as a parent if I'd been fined, I would have paid it without a fuss, but I also don't believe that this legislation is aimed at pupils like my kids and I am confident that their studies has not been detrimentally affected by these few days out of their whole education as was whoever decided not to refer the case to the LA.
    • foxster99
    • By foxster99 8th Jun 17, 4:31 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    foxster99
    thanks for your advice you seem very knowledgeable. Do you have qualifications or are you a well-informed parent?
    Originally posted by julie777
    I'm an attendance officer at a high school.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 8th Jun 17, 4:33 PM
    • 14,480 Posts
    • 14,171 Thanks
    Guest101
    I'm an attendance officer at a high school.
    Originally posted by foxster99


    Wow that's actually a thing? I presume that it's a self funding project
    • foxster99
    • By foxster99 8th Jun 17, 4:35 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    foxster99
    Wow that's actually a thing? I presume that it's a self funding project
    Originally posted by Guest101
    How would it be self-funding?

    And, yes, it is a "thing" i.e. I am employed in this role. As opposed to your thing, which consists of spending all day posting on forums, according to your forum log. I take it that you have nothing more useful to do?
    Last edited by foxster99; 08-06-2017 at 4:41 PM.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 8th Jun 17, 4:36 PM
    • 14,480 Posts
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    Guest101
    How would it be self-funding?
    Originally posted by foxster99


    Number of penalties issued?


    I presume the reason your role exists is because there's a problem at the school?
    • foxster99
    • By foxster99 8th Jun 17, 4:58 PM
    • 22 Posts
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    foxster99
    Number of penalties issued?


    I presume the reason your role exists is because there's a problem at the school?
    Originally posted by Guest101
    The money from penalty notices is received by the Local Authority that issues them, nothing goes to the schools. It is not sufficient to cover the LA's administration costs i.e. there is no profit made.

    Every high school I know of has some form of attendance officer or a person in a role that includes the duty. In addition, there are usually one or more other members of the senior staff that are also involved as part of their responsibilities.

    Our school attendance is very good, one of the highest in our county. The excellent results our students achieve reflect this. We chart our GCSE results each year and compare them with student attendance and every year, statistically, those who get the best results are those that spend the most time in the building. That is not government BS or propaganda but fact from the coal-face.
    • takman
    • By takman 8th Jun 17, 5:01 PM
    • 2,404 Posts
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    takman
    I know it is hard for some people strongly anti term-time holiday to believe that some teachers and heads are not as categorical about its negative impact as them.

    The reasons why I wasn't fine is that firstly I don't make a habit of it, secondly, my kids attendance is otherwise exemplary (no sick day last year, only one this year so far and that was as due to fever following the meningitis injection and thirdly, both of them are straight A students. The school doesn't believe that their education will be affected by a few days away (and indeed, they have always caught on what they've missed within a few days) and most importantly they have bigger fish to fry.

    The last time I took them out of 10 days, a number of teachers actually offered themselves to email them the learning they were missing.

    I'm not the type to go and shout about my rights as a parent if I'd been fined, I would have paid it without a fuss, but I also don't believe that this legislation is aimed at pupils like my kids and I am confident that their studies has not been detrimentally affected by these few days out of their whole education as was whoever decided not to refer the case to the LA.
    Originally posted by FBaby
    If they can catch up on 10 days of lessons in only 2 school days then that must be most inefficient school in the country
    • maman
    • By maman 8th Jun 17, 6:46 PM
    • 16,245 Posts
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    maman
    Number of penalties issued?
    Originally posted by Guest101
    That's a joke surely.
    I expect it's funded by the school (rather than rely on diminishing or non-existent EWOs) because not only do they realise the correlation between regular attendance and high standards but Ofsted would be on their backs if attendance was poor.
    • maman
    • By maman 8th Jun 17, 6:49 PM
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    maman
    I presume the reason your role exists is because there's a problem at the school?
    Originally posted by Guest101
    Maybe there's a potential problem with parents making a moral stand by going on holiday in term time.
    • Spendless
    • By Spendless 8th Jun 17, 8:26 PM
    • 19,398 Posts
    • 31,382 Thanks
    Spendless
    there's 13 weeks to choose from.
    Originally posted by maman
    These sort of comments always make me smile. I haven't got/had 13 weeks to chose from this year.

    Feb - half term - husband working abroad, no choice in that, it was when a conference involving people from other countries was set up for.

    Easter - Yes, could go then.

    May half term- husband's sister got married during this.

    6 weeks summer hols hols - 3 weeks taken by other members of staff, work policy is 1 off at a time, and if you cover for another workmate for hols not even a coinciding half day off.

    Oct half term- taken by workmate I cover for.

    Xmas - No one allowed time off from early Dec until Jan due to nature of business.

    I make that a maximum 5 weeks I could have off that coincides with schools being closed. Just as well I booked it early and DH could be off the same weeks!

    Mine are in GCSE/A level years so we aren't going out of term time anyway but I'm glad I've only got 2-4 years left of all this and I'm out of this.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 9th Jun 17, 6:08 AM
    • 15,668 Posts
    • 39,187 Thanks
    FBaby
    If they can catch up on 10 days of lessons in only 2 school days then that must be most inefficient school in the country
    That's why there are grammar schools to support more able pupils. The local school is a typical comprehensive that tries to cater for all kind of pupils. I wish it provided more for academic children, but at the same time, I think it offers the right environment for my kids, learning independent skills and dealing with people from all sides of society. But yes, it only took a few days to catch up as it was just before Christmas and the amount of learning had significantly reduced already.
    • Spendless
    • By Spendless 10th Jun 17, 11:32 PM
    • 19,398 Posts
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    Spendless
    This is amongst the reasons why I am against the current rulings on term time hols.

    Here the HT can go on hol for a wedding and reason cited is because weddings abroad are considered exceptional circs in his area.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/headteacher-enjoys-two-week-holiday-10597415

    And here we havea parent that wasn't given permission to take their child abroad for a wedding. It won't be classed as 'exceptional circs' in that area. (it isn't in mine either, though we do have unable to get any other time off work)

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4568550/Father-fined-taking-daughter-school-wedding.html

    Make what are exceptional circs blanket across the country. Or better still change the rules to what they were prior to Sept 2013.
    • zagubov
    • By zagubov 11th Jun 17, 1:29 AM
    • 14,493 Posts
    • 124,658 Thanks
    zagubov
    This is amongst the reasons why I am against the current rulings on term time hols.

    Here the HT can go on hol for a wedding and reason cited is because weddings abroad are considered exceptional circs in his area.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/headteacher-enjoys-two-week-holiday-10597415

    And here we havea parent that wasn't given permission to take their child abroad for a wedding. It won't be classed as 'exceptional circs' in that area. (it isn't in mine either, though we do have unable to get any other time off work)

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4568550/Father-fined-taking-daughter-school-wedding.html

    Make what are exceptional circs blanket across the country. Or better still change the rules to what they were prior to Sept 2013.
    Originally posted by Spendless
    I'm puzzled. Do you think these are morally equivalent? And therefore educationally equivalent?
    There is no honour to be had in not knowing a thing that can be known - Danny Baker
    • Spendless
    • By Spendless 11th Jun 17, 9:11 AM
    • 19,398 Posts
    • 31,382 Thanks
    Spendless
    I'm puzzled. Do you think these are morally equivalent? And therefore educationally equivalent?
    Originally posted by zagubov
    I think the rules should be the same all over the country for pupils (and their school staff).

    Currently we have different LAs interpreting what counts as 'exceptional circs' if different ways.

    My own allows for a term time hol if you can't get any time off work in hols. Other LAs don't have this.

    My LA doesn't accept 'to attend a wedding abroad' as an exceptional circ. Other areas do.

    Therefore I think if HT in county A can attend a wedding abroad in term time and so can a pupil in county A (which is given as the reason why it was ok for HT to do so) the same should be true for County B, C and the rest...
    • pollypenny
    • By pollypenny 11th Jun 17, 9:55 AM
    • 21,901 Posts
    • 55,958 Thanks
    pollypenny
    I'm shocked that a head teacher should even contemplate taking 2 weeks off in term time - for any reason!

    Well, OK, for a bereavement of someone very close. That would be compassionate leave, though.
    Member #14 of SKI-ers club

    Words, words, they're all we have to go by!.

    (Pity they are mangled by this autocorrect!)
    • Spendless
    • By Spendless 11th Jun 17, 10:31 AM
    • 19,398 Posts
    • 31,382 Thanks
    Spendless
    I'm shocked that a head teacher should even contemplate taking 2 weeks off in term time - for any reason!

    Well, OK, for a bereavement of someone very close. That would be compassionate leave, though.
    Originally posted by pollypenny
    It wasn't 2 weeks, though you have to read through the article it worked out as 3 days due to school hols.
    • maman
    • By maman 11th Jun 17, 1:18 PM
    • 16,245 Posts
    • 96,984 Thanks
    maman
    I'm shocked that a head teacher should even contemplate taking 2 weeks off in term time - for any reason!

    Well, OK, for a bereavement of someone very close. That would be compassionate leave, though.
    Originally posted by pollypenny


    I tend to agree in terms of leading by example. One assumes that the wedding was for someone really close who might have considered that her relative/friend was a teacher and wouldn't be able to be there when arranging the date.


    Similarly I have no sympathy for the father who obviously planned his own wedding date in term time when he knew his children should be at school.


    I agree that a country wide set of rules would be easier to understand but that's not the government's style. They don't approve of Local Authorities so they positively encourage academies, free schools, grammars, independents etc and give them freedom to make their own rules. If they don't insist that all schools follow the national curriculum they're hardly going to have a blanket policy on holidays!
    • foxster99
    • By foxster99 11th Jun 17, 11:31 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    foxster99
    I'm shocked that a head teacher should even contemplate taking 2 weeks off in term time - for any reason!

    Well, OK, for a bereavement of someone very close. That would be compassionate leave, though.
    Originally posted by pollypenny
    It was actually three days of term-time he was off and I think you'd find many schools would authorise three days for a pupil to attend a wedding abroad.

    You also have to be a tad wary of comparing apples and oranges.

    With students, missing school means they miss out on stuff that is not likely to be repeated. School being a one-off opportunity.

    With a head, who likely has few or no regular classes to take and who has a staff to take care of things whilst he is away and who likely works a big chunk of the school holidays anyway, there just isn't the impact of him not being in the building for a while in term-time. In a similar way that non-school people can take a holiday and their company does not fold as a result.
    Last edited by foxster99; 11-06-2017 at 11:37 PM.
    • Shannon71
    • By Shannon71 20th Jul 17, 7:22 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Shannon71
    My daughter always has the last three days off in December for our cheap Disney Paris holiday, she has autism and this is door to door, I can't go away in summer its to crowded and yet I am threatened this year if we go with a fine, its so unfair as she will be at school messing about or watching DVDs
    • maman
    • By maman 20th Jul 17, 4:37 PM
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    maman
    If she can't cope with crowds, your GP may decide that going to Disneyland is an exceptional circumstance and could support you to get permission.


    My daughter always has the last three days off in December for our cheap Disney Paris holiday, she has autism and this is door to door, I can't go away in summer its to crowded and yet I am threatened this year if we go with a fine, its so unfair as she will be at school messing about or watching DVDs
    Originally posted by Shannon71

    If that's what you think of her school maybe home schooling would suit better and then you can go on holiday any time you want. Or perhaps you could send her to an independent school as they generally have longer holidays.
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