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  • FIRST POST
    • dericS
    • By dericS 1st Aug 15, 2:51 PM
    • 21Posts
    • 4Thanks
    dericS
    Smart meters - what is the catch?
    • #1
    • 1st Aug 15, 2:51 PM
    Smart meters - what is the catch? 1st Aug 15 at 2:51 PM
    Hello

    I have received 3 letters from my energy provider recently urging me to install smart gas and electricity energy meters. I have done a bit of research on the pros and cons and actually think the idea is a rather good one. I like the notion of 'saving' by isolating the times when usage is heaviest and targeting ways of reducing consumption (or changing my habits to use energy at cheaper times).

    However - there are several concerning 'cons' to this which I wanted to get other views on - specifically, the notion that energy companies can save costs by being able to remotely read meters - not in itself a bad thing - but will these cost savings be passed on to the consumer? Additionally, I am disturbed by the prospect that energy companies could tailor our bills so that they could charge us more for heavy usage even when we are not using the energy at peak times.

    I'd be interested to hear what others think of smart meters, whether anybody has already installed them (and what savings have you made?!) and whether it really is a viable option to revert back to the existing meters if smart meters do not work for you?

    Thanks for your thoughts.
Page 8
    • JDC2017
    • By JDC2017 12th Jun 17, 8:10 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    JDC2017
    LOL - I'm obviously making a complete hash of the explanation.

    Thanks to badmemory for summing it up nicely.

    The old gas meter and its earthing bond to a pipe was 'compliant'.

    The new gas meter and its earthing bond to a pipe is not 'compliant'.

    Eon Customer Servies are back at work today so I will be trying to have the work evaluated.
    John
    • jack_pott
    • By jack_pott 12th Jun 17, 10:36 AM
    • 4,018 Posts
    • 5,087 Thanks
    jack_pott
    The old gas meter and its earthing bond to a pipe was 'compliant'.
    Originally posted by JDC2017
    Compliant to what, and certified by who?

    npower replaced all their gas pipework up to our gas meter. Additionally, the gas meter was replaced with a new gas meter approx four years ago so the gas meter and its pipework had previously all been thoroughly tested, checked and passed by experienced engineers.
    Originally posted by JDC2017
    No mention here about the electrical installation being checked by electrical engineers.

    handed me a card headed 'Safety Notice' which went on to state that: 'It appears that the gas installation pipework fitted at your property may not have Electrical Equipotential bonding correctly fitted . I am required under section 18(2) of the Gas Safety (Installation and Use Regulations) 1998 to advise you that the Electrical Installation should be checked by a competent electrical contractor.'
    So they haven't said it's non compliant at all, they're just advising you that it might be.

    What is relevant is whether the bonding itself has changed, and not whether what you're being told about it has changed. If they really have left the bonding in a different state to what they found it then you have grounds for complaint if it's non-compliant, but it's not at all clear from anything you have said that that is the case. So far we have 'not necessarily' compliant before the change, and 'may be' non-compliant after the change, and no real idea whether the actual wiring has been changed at all.

    I find it difficult to imagine that they would have removed the bonding from the old pipe and not replaced it on the new one. If they have left it off, then you have grounds for complaint, but if they have replaced it, then it's unlikely it's any more or less compliant than it was before they came.
    Last edited by jack_pott; 12-06-2017 at 10:44 AM.
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Smart Meters

    I'd recommend raising this directly with our smart teams. Contact details are on our website under 'Help and Support.' They'll raise a complaint, investigate the job done and offer a resolution. They'll also be able to help you understand the meters better and, if required, arrange further instruction.
    Malc
    Originally posted by E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    LOL - I'm obviously making a complete hash of the explanation.

    Thanks to badmemory for summing it up nicely.

    The old gas meter and its earthing bond to a pipe was 'compliant'.

    The new gas meter and its earthing bond to a pipe is not 'compliant'.

    Eon Customer Servies are back at work today so I will be trying to have the work evaluated.
    Originally posted by JDC2017
    As I mentioned earlier JDC2017 (post #132). Best to go directly to our smart teams with this (contact details are on our website). Customer Services won't have the necessary access to help here and will put you on hold whilst they connect you. Will save you a bit of time waiting on the phone.

    Malc
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • Laandlord
    • By Laandlord 11th Jul 17, 4:57 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Laandlord
    Smart meter avoid
    I own 4 properties and decided to have 4 Smart Meters installed by British Gas , the first engineer came to one property and installed the meter, very friendly and very professional, explained how to use the meter and settings etc. The 2nd Engineer came to the other property and installed the meter again friendly and professional, did the same as the first engineer, The 3rd engineer came to 3rd property and this is where is went downhill. If an engineer finds a misplaced cable or a cable which should not be there he will immediately suspect that there has been tampering, THEY THEN HAVE THE POWER TO CUT YOUR ELECTRICITY AND REMOVE THE MAIN FUSE, next step is to call a tamper team, this team is from a company called Grovesnor Revenue and they are contracted by British Gas, they can takes 4 days to come which means you will have no hot water, no heating, no lighting and no fridge or freezer for 4 days. Grovesnor do not charge to investigate any suspected tamper.
    After cutting the electricity for 2 flats, the engineer said it was for health and safety , the manager then asked if there were venerable tenants, I said the ground floor tenants, one was 79 paralysed in a wheelchair and the other was 82 with heart condition, so they reconnected the electricity to that flat, no health and safety issues there, the top flat remained cut off as the tenants where all fit and working professionals and for that they had no electricity. The engineer then accused me of stealing electricity and when I asked for his name became very aggressive, they only put nick names and job numbers on the paperwork. I spoke to his Manager on the telephone which made the engineer very irate to the point of lunging forward to head butt me in front of witnesses, I pushed him back and the incident was diffused by the witnesses. I cancelled the smart meter fitting in remaining 2 properties, and I am now in the process of switching to another energy supplier after more than 20 years with British Gas. I complained to CEO level and an emergency British gas revenue team came down the next day (THEY DO CHARGE), they found that the cable was not connected but said it could have been and said I needed to pay an estimated charge for electricity that could have been used, plus their investigation cost to pull out a cable, the total payment I had to pay was £409 !! otherwise they will not connect you.
    You should notE that whilst British Gas say that the smart meter and fitting is FREE , it actually costs £250 supply and fit per meter, whilst they don’t charge you they do claw it back a tiny bit at a time through your monthly payments. In this case I am switching to another provider so the meters will become `dumb’ meters for the next energy provider.
    STICK TO YOUR NORMAL METER ALL THIS SMART METER DOES DOES IS TELL YOU HOW MUCH YOU ARE USING, AND RELAYS THAT BACK TO BRITISH GAS AND YOU WILL BE PAYING FOR THE METERS INDIRECTLY
    Last edited by Laandlord; 11-07-2017 at 4:59 PM.
    • baldelectrician
    • By baldelectrician 11th Jul 17, 5:11 PM
    • 2,113 Posts
    • 1,311 Thanks
    baldelectrician
    Over 80% of my work is landlord work and I have to call out the supplier if I notice any metering issues.


    The only suppliers to be a pain in the rear are British Gas, Eon and Npower.


    The latter 2 are due to them not being local


    I had OVO at my dads house and they install the Liberty Secure brand meters- these can be switched over the phone between pre pay (top up) and post pay (direct debit / bill)
    This is good as when someone moves out they can generate an almost instant bill


    When my dads house was sold OVO generated a final bill whilst I was on the phone, took payment (debit card) and took details of the new owner - all in a call lasting less than 5 minutes


    Going back to the landlord thing it is good as they can easily have you on record as the owner and set you up for pre pay (you can top up with an app) or post pay when a tenant moves out.


    On a side issue- my mate (who is registered blind and cannot therefore read letters) almost had BG break his door down to fit a pre payment meter (illegal as he is blind).
    They stopped when I intervened and told them I was recording the calls


    I use an Android phone (Samsung S7) and have a call recording app, I find companies treat you better when they know you are recording the call.
    baldly going on...
    • LeeUK
    • By LeeUK 11th Jul 17, 5:16 PM
    • 5,523 Posts
    • 2,550 Thanks
    LeeUK
    I own 4 properties and decided to have 4 Smart Meters installed by British Gas , the first engineer came to one property and installed the meter, very friendly and very professional, explained how to use the meter and settings etc. The 2nd Engineer came to the other property and installed the meter again friendly and professional, did the same as the first engineer, The 3rd engineer came to 3rd property and this is where is went downhill. If an engineer finds a misplaced cable or a cable which should not be there he will immediately suspect that there has been tampering, THEY THEN HAVE THE POWER TO CUT YOUR ELECTRICITY AND REMOVE THE MAIN FUSE, next step is to call a tamper team, this team is from a company called Grovesnor Revenue and they are contracted by British Gas, they can takes 4 days to come which means you will have no hot water, no heating, no lighting and no fridge or freezer for 4 days. Grovesnor do not charge to investigate any suspected tamper.
    After cutting the electricity for 2 flats, the engineer said it was for health and safety , the manager then asked if there were venerable tenants, I said the ground floor tenants, one was 79 paralysed in a wheelchair and the other was 82 with heart condition, so they reconnected the electricity to that flat, no health and safety issues there, the top flat remained cut off as the tenants where all fit and working professionals and for that they had no electricity. The engineer then accused me of stealing electricity and when I asked for his name became very aggressive, they only put nick names and job numbers on the paperwork. I spoke to his Manager on the telephone which made the engineer very irate to the point of lunging forward to head butt me in front of witnesses, I pushed him back and the incident was diffused by the witnesses. I cancelled the smart meter fitting in remaining 2 properties, and I am now in the process of switching to another energy supplier after more than 20 years with British Gas. I complained to CEO level and an emergency British gas revenue team came down the next day (THEY DO CHARGE), they found that the cable was not connected but said it could have been and said I needed to pay an estimated charge for electricity that could have been used, plus their investigation cost to pull out a cable, the total payment I had to pay was £409 !! otherwise they will not connect you.
    You should notE that whilst British Gas say that the smart meter and fitting is FREE , it actually costs £250 supply and fit per meter, whilst they don’t charge you they do claw it back a tiny bit at a time through your monthly payments. In this case I am switching to another provider so the meters will become `dumb’ meters for the next energy provider.
    STICK TO YOUR NORMAL METER ALL THIS SMART METER DOES DOES IS TELL YOU HOW MUCH YOU ARE USING, AND RELAYS THAT BACK TO BRITISH GAS AND YOU WILL BE PAYING FOR THE METERS INDIRECTLY
    Originally posted by Laandlord
    I wouldn't like to be one of your tenants if I can't choose my own supplier for the best deals.
    • MeterMan
    • By MeterMan 11th Jul 17, 6:13 PM
    • 257 Posts
    • 138 Thanks
    MeterMan
    I own 4 properties and decided to have 4 Smart Meters installed by British Gas , the first engineer came to one property and installed the meter, very friendly and very professional, explained how to use the meter and settings etc. The 2nd Engineer came to the other property and installed the meter again friendly and professional, did the same as the first engineer, The 3rd engineer came to 3rd property and this is where is went downhill. If an engineer finds a misplaced cable or a cable which should not be there he will immediately suspect that there has been tampering, THEY THEN HAVE THE POWER TO CUT YOUR ELECTRICITY AND REMOVE THE MAIN FUSE, next step is to call a tamper team, this team is from a company called Grovesnor Revenue and they are contracted by British Gas, they can takes 4 days to come which means you will have no hot water, no heating, no lighting and no fridge or freezer for 4 days. Grovesnor do not charge to investigate any suspected tamper.
    After cutting the electricity for 2 flats, the engineer said it was for health and safety , the manager then asked if there were venerable tenants, I said the ground floor tenants, one was 79 paralysed in a wheelchair and the other was 82 with heart condition, so they reconnected the electricity to that flat, no health and safety issues there, the top flat remained cut off as the tenants where all fit and working professionals and for that they had no electricity. The engineer then accused me of stealing electricity and when I asked for his name became very aggressive, they only put nick names and job numbers on the paperwork. I spoke to his Manager on the telephone which made the engineer very irate to the point of lunging forward to head butt me in front of witnesses, I pushed him back and the incident was diffused by the witnesses. I cancelled the smart meter fitting in remaining 2 properties, and I am now in the process of switching to another energy supplier after more than 20 years with British Gas. I complained to CEO level and an emergency British gas revenue team came down the next day (THEY DO CHARGE), they found that the cable was not connected but said it could have been and said I needed to pay an estimated charge for electricity that could have been used, plus their investigation cost to pull out a cable, the total payment I had to pay was £409 !! otherwise they will not connect you.
    You should notE that whilst British Gas say that the smart meter and fitting is FREE , it actually costs £250 supply and fit per meter, whilst they don’t charge you they do claw it back a tiny bit at a time through your monthly payments. In this case I am switching to another provider so the meters will become `dumb’ meters for the next energy provider.
    STICK TO YOUR NORMAL METER ALL THIS SMART METER DOES DOES IS TELL YOU HOW MUCH YOU ARE USING, AND RELAYS THAT BACK TO BRITISH GAS AND YOU WILL BE PAYING FOR THE METERS INDIRECTLY
    Originally posted by Laandlord
    This is amazing. Now that you've decided against having smart meters, you will still be paying for them through the standing charges part of your bill. Even though you don't have one!
    • BillTee
    • By BillTee 13th Jul 17, 2:32 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    BillTee
    Can I turn off supply
    I turn off power supply when I go away - can I do this with a smart meter without affecting its operation? I have a dumb digital meter at present: display isn't affected by cut to supply
    • Ingenuer
    • By Ingenuer 14th Jul 17, 1:13 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Ingenuer
    My energy supplier is very keen for me to have a Smart Meter. They phone me occasionally asking me to make an appointment to have one fitted. However, when I discuss the need for the meter, they reluctantly admit that I don't have to have one - at least not yet - although they do have a statutory duty to replace meters every 10 years or so, and eventually only Smart ones will be available. The TV ads tell me to get "Gaz and Leccy" under control, but I question just who is exerting the control by using this technology.

    The Smart Meter makes meter readings automatically, and tells me instantly the amount and cost of my energy usage. So far so good. Leaving aside allegations of gross inaccuracies in readings and billing recently reported in the media, I have worries about what else these meters can do. The specification for Smart Meters includes the ability to collect data on energy use patterns, i.e. the times our household uses energy, so there is data available to the suppliers and their associates on whether I or my family are at home, and to some extent, what activities are going on in the house. For example the surge of electricity used to boil a kettle or take a shower could be identified. With a little more sophistication the characteristic switch-on surges of a TV, a computer, a power tool, could be distinguished. The data are encrypted, but people have made many successful hacks of supposedly secure data, from individual clever kids, to criminal gangs, to whole government agencies.

    The Smart Meter provides a two-way path for data flow, intended to interact with smart electronics that will increasingly be incorporated into household appliances. That gives us another option for remotely controlling our home appliances and services, just as they can now in some cases be controlled by phone. It also opens the possibility of the utility providers controlling or restricting the times at which certain appliances can be used - a measure that will become very attractive as UK generating capacity is likely to be outstripped by demand in the near future. For example, delaying the start up of smart fridges, freezers and washing machines by up to 20 minutes at times of peak demand could help level out the load for the generating companies. If electric vehicles become the norm, such measures may be essential to preserve supplies when thousands of commuters arrive home and plug in. Will it cost me more to use my appliances when I want to, and not just when I'm allowed to? If electricity supplies have to be rationed, the Smart Meter is just the tool for controlling who gets power and when. And if I don't pay the bill on time, complain too much, or the police imagine I'm thinking wrong thoughts, will my Smart Meter simply cut me off?

    Just because I'm paranoid, it doesn't mean they aren't really all out to get me
    • LeeUK
    • By LeeUK 14th Jul 17, 11:01 AM
    • 5,523 Posts
    • 2,550 Thanks
    LeeUK
    Watch one day a smart meter will be responsible for a house fire and watch as the mass panic nationwide to replace all smart meters.

    I'm still happy with my old skool meter.
    • LeeUK
    • By LeeUK 14th Jul 17, 11:07 AM
    • 5,523 Posts
    • 2,550 Thanks
    LeeUK
    I turn off power supply when I go away - can I do this with a smart meter without affecting its operation? I have a dumb digital meter at present: display isn't affected by cut to supply
    Originally posted by BillTee
    The display unit will go off if is not plugged into the mains e.g it will have nothing displayed unless they have batteries in them.

    The box on the wall where your supply feeds into will still store the current meter reading, same way as any other LCD meter still stores the reading.
    • House Martin
    • By House Martin 14th Jul 17, 11:17 AM
    • 458 Posts
    • 429 Thanks
    House Martin
    Watch one day a smart meter will be responsible for a house fire and watch as the mass panic nationwide to replace all smart meters.

    I'm still happy with my old skool meter.
    Originally posted by LeeUK
    There are many thousands of fires caused by electric meters..the cause..energy theft when they wire the meter up..smart meters can tell if the meter is being attempted to be bypassed, also the gas meter can as well..Recently my colleague went to a property to read the gas meter, which had just been removed by a gas safe engineer to do some soldering work on the gas pipe, when British Gas rang the occupier to ask why the meter was removed..Smart meters work, and everyone should have one, as they all eventually will in the end..just like other European countries have done, obligatory too..Italy is virtually 100% smart now.
    All electric meters are powered by mains electric before the meter and the cost does not fall to the occupier.The IHD monitor does nt have a battery and is powered by the customers supply, cost is around a quid a year at the most..Smart gas meter has a at least ten year lifespan built in battery
    Last edited by House Martin; 14-07-2017 at 11:21 AM.
    • LeeUK
    • By LeeUK 14th Jul 17, 11:27 AM
    • 5,523 Posts
    • 2,550 Thanks
    LeeUK
    There are many thousands of fires caused by electric meters..the cause..energy theft when they wire the meter up..smart meters can tell if the meter is being attempted to be bypassed, also the gas meter can as well..Recently my colleague went to a property to read the gas meter, which had just been removed by a gas safe engineer to do some soldering work on the gas pipe, when British Gas rang the occupier to ask why the meter was removed..Smart meters work, and everyone should have one, as they all eventually will in the end..just like other European countries have done, obligatory too..Italy is virtually 100% smart now.
    All electric meters are powered by mains electric before the meter and the cost does not fall to the occupier.The IHD monitor does nt have a battery and is powered by the customers supply, cost is around a quid a year at the most..Smart gas meter has a at least ten year lifespan built in battery
    Originally posted by House Martin
    I'm not saying fire from tampering. I'm saying fire from all the cheap electronics in them, overheating, etc.

    I won't get a smart meter until it becomes law that you have to have one with no other options.
    • fredandwilma
    • By fredandwilma 14th Jul 17, 12:22 PM
    • 994 Posts
    • 1,347 Thanks
    fredandwilma
    Watch one day a smart meter will be responsible for a house fire and watch as the mass panic nationwide to replace all smart meters.

    I'm still happy with my old skool meter.
    Originally posted by LeeUK
    I'm not saying fire from tampering. I'm saying fire from all the cheap electronics in them, overheating, etc.

    I won't get a smart meter until it becomes law that you have to have one with no other options.
    Originally posted by LeeUK

    It's no different to any other electrical appliance you have in your home, as we've seen recently.

    Do you routinely unplug your fridge freezer, for example?
    Fred - Where's your get up and go?

    Barney - It just got up and went.



    Carpe diem
    • gohan2091
    • By gohan2091 18th Jul 17, 2:59 PM
    • 279 Posts
    • 43 Thanks
    gohan2091
    Is the information on this site true or false then? http://stopsmartmeters.org.uk/
    • House Martin
    • By House Martin 18th Jul 17, 6:14 PM
    • 458 Posts
    • 429 Thanks
    House Martin
    Is the information on this site true or false then? http://stopsmartmeters.org.uk/
    Originally posted by gohan2091
    Stopsmartmeters.org started off fairly sane with its founder Dr Elizabeth Evans railing against them because she suspected they were affecting her personally through the tiny amount of wifi waves they emitted, (odd that her iphone did nt affect her ).That was a few years ago.They have got more and more ludicrous, last one i looked at, as a member, was "smart meters cause cancer "..Just a hopeless pack of lies now come from this website in their desperation when they see how strongly smart meters have taken hold. Its about time they packed in but they may be making a good living from all the adverts.
    • Norman Castle
    • By Norman Castle 18th Jul 17, 7:50 PM
    • 6,161 Posts
    • 4,937 Thanks
    Norman Castle
    There are many thousands of fires caused by electric meters..
    Originally posted by House Martin
    Many thousands? How many exactly? Where is this information from?
    Don't harass a hippie. You'll get bad karma.
    • House Martin
    • By House Martin 18th Jul 17, 10:44 PM
    • 458 Posts
    • 429 Thanks
    House Martin
    Many thousands? How many exactly? Where is this information from?
    Originally posted by Norman Castle
    They are usually small electric fires around the meter itself ( which is bypassed using too thin insulated wire ) which ends up a blackened mess.I have seen enough of those around in the last 20 years.One big fire when the occupants did a runner leaving the house to catch fire .The terraced house was a small scale cannabis farm..Taking my experiences over the years into account and multiplying it throughout the UK and I will be underestimating the number of electric meter fires..There was one in a house opposite mine not too long ago, druggies of course..
    I even have photographs of meters where the idiots have even used uninsulated bare copper wire to bypass the meter, so they had pulled the main fuse as well .No suppliers or DNO s would have been able to correlate all the meter fires in the UK but "many thousands " will be an underestimate IMO
    I have never known a standard electric meter go up or overheat, smart or dumb..they are 100% safe unless the energy thieves get to work..Why do you ask ? its obvious if they use wire too thin its going to overheat once they get their cannabis heat lamps on the go or have electric fires on full blast throughout the house.
    Ah, just seen your little line you include in your posts about "bad karma " so you are a bit of a hippy..enough said lol..
    Any house insurances taken out is wasted because no insurance company will pay out if a fire is caused by meter tampering and that includes landlords who do not check their tenants meters occasionally..Even a "refused access " on a meter reader is enough for the insurance companies to refuse payments in the event that the fiddled meters gas or electric is the cause of the fire/explosion
    Last edited by House Martin; 19-07-2017 at 10:43 AM.
    • Mr da
    • By Mr da 19th Jul 17, 1:15 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 113 Thanks
    Mr da
    Can anyone help with this question.
    I've just moved house and want to contact my energy supplier to get a smart meter installed.
    The problem is that the gas meter box has no door on it and a crack in the box which is in the part which goes in the wall cavity. I know I can get an over box to cover the part which is open to the elements, but would a provider still fit a smart meter with a crack on the box in the wall?
    • House Martin
    • By House Martin 19th Jul 17, 2:30 PM
    • 458 Posts
    • 429 Thanks
    House Martin
    Can anyone help with this question.
    I've just moved house and want to contact my energy supplier to get a smart meter installed.
    The problem is that the gas meter box has no door on it and a crack in the box which is in the part which goes in the wall cavity. I know I can get an over box to cover the part which is open to the elements, but would a provider still fit a smart meter with a crack on the box in the wall?
    Originally posted by Mr da
    To the best of my knowledge the only thing that any supplier will replace free of charge is a broken latch door triangle and that is it..whole doors , forget it .The entire box is owned by the person who owns the property.If you need the inner section repairing or the door replacing the costs fall upon the owner..Doors I m sure are available on the internet and I would think the inner crack can be bodged up with fibreglass rather than replaced. I have seen many doors where the occupier has made it out of plywood and done a good job, better than the original.
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