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    • hodge263
    • By hodge263 6th Jul 15, 8:58 PM
    • 35Posts
    • 5Thanks
    hodge263
    Mortgage after bankruptcy and repossession
    • #1
    • 6th Jul 15, 8:58 PM
    Mortgage after bankruptcy and repossession 6th Jul 15 at 8:58 PM
    Hi,

    This question may have been answered previously but I am having difficulty finding up to date information on this topic and am hoping you may be able to help.

    I filed for bankruptcy on 06/09/11 and the shortfall from my repossessed property was included (handed keys back to RBS almost 18 months prior to this but the property didn't sell until July 11).

    I never thought I would be eligible for a mortgage again in future and had resigned myself to renting. I then read that mortgages are available to ex bankrupts as long as they have a healthy deposit. My partner and I are living with my parents whilst we save up and hope to buy in after Sept 2017 once my six years are up and hopefully I have a clear credit file. My partner has never been in debt.

    It never occurred to me (very naively) that the inclusion of a repossessed property would reduce our chance of a mortgage even further. Have any of you been in a similar situation and had a positive outcome? I'm worried that after living with my parents for four years and saving a 20% deposit we will be rejected and end up renting after all. If we have no chance of a mortgage we would go and rent now.

    Looking forward to hearing from you with fingers crossed for good news.

    Thanks guys,
    Anna
    Last edited by hodge263; 07-07-2015 at 2:30 PM.
Page 1
    • alastairq
    • By alastairq 7th Jul 15, 10:09 AM
    • 4,984 Posts
    • 4,088 Thanks
    alastairq
    • #2
    • 7th Jul 15, 10:09 AM
    • #2
    • 7th Jul 15, 10:09 AM
    You will have a greater choice/opportunity once the BR has reached the 6 year period on your records.

    However, the re-possession is a blacker mark than the BR.

    You should use a whole-of-market mortgage broker, given the history.
    No, I don't think all other drivers are idiots......but some are determined to change my mind.......
    • hodge263
    • By hodge263 7th Jul 15, 11:01 AM
    • 35 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    hodge263
    • #3
    • 7th Jul 15, 11:01 AM
    • #3
    • 7th Jul 15, 11:01 AM
    Thanks Alistair. Am I right in thinking it is 6 years after the date of bankruptcy not 6 years after discharge date? Keep reading conflicting posts.
    • chasingfreedom
    • By chasingfreedom 7th Jul 15, 1:27 PM
    • 200 Posts
    • 157 Thanks
    chasingfreedom
    • #4
    • 7th Jul 15, 1:27 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Jul 15, 1:27 PM
    Alastairq, out of interest where is the 'blacker mark'? I assume if the BR comes off your file 6 years after the bankruptcy any record of repossession would aswell? Or is there another database somewhere regarding repossessions?
    Starting debt total April 2015 £39277.38


    Current total £36319.27
    • owlet
    • By owlet 7th Jul 15, 1:38 PM
    • 1,498 Posts
    • 1,460 Thanks
    owlet
    • #5
    • 7th Jul 15, 1:38 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Jul 15, 1:38 PM
    Thanks Alistair. Am I right in thinking it is 6 years after the date of bankruptcy not 6 years after discharge date? Keep reading conflicting posts.
    Originally posted by hodge263
    You are right. It is 6 years from the day you were made BR - not discharge.
    • GazHatesBanks
    • By GazHatesBanks 7th Jul 15, 1:52 PM
    • 140 Posts
    • 142 Thanks
    GazHatesBanks
    • #6
    • 7th Jul 15, 1:52 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Jul 15, 1:52 PM
    When applying for a mortgage, most lenders will ask if you have EVER been bankrupt or had a property repossessed so you will need to declare it (remember that the bankruptcy is recorded permanently and your solicitor will check for this).

    I don't know if mortgage repossessions are still recorded, but you will be asked the question anyway and it is never a good idea to lie on an application form!

    This doesn't mean that you will never get a mortgage, but will reduce the available number of lenders hence why you should consult a whole of market broker.

    I have made tentative enquiries and the information coming back from brokers at the moment (I was made BR Dec-11) is that at this stage mortgages are available if you have either bankrupty or a repossession history but not both.

    After the 6 years from bankruptcy have passed (Sep-17 in your case) it should be easier to get a mortgage, possibly even from select high street lenders.

    I'm using the time to keep adding to my already reasonable deposit and hope to have around a 40% deposit by then, but if the market changes then I may be able to buy something before then (lenders do seem to be slowly becoming less risk averse than they were immediately after the credit crunch)
    • hodge263
    • By hodge263 7th Jul 15, 2:29 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    hodge263
    • #7
    • 7th Jul 15, 2:29 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Jul 15, 2:29 PM
    Thanks for the responses I really appreciate it. Feel a lot more positive about things now!
    • betterdaysahead
    • By betterdaysahead 8th Jul 15, 6:32 PM
    • 111 Posts
    • 59 Thanks
    betterdaysahead
    • #8
    • 8th Jul 15, 6:32 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Jul 15, 6:32 PM
    As Chasingfreedom asked - is there a register of repossessions kept anywhere? And from what I can see your BR details recorded in the London Gazette are minimal - only your name, occupation and address at the time. I'm not sure that any of that is personally identifiable information. Or am I being naive?
    • 2kadmin
    • By 2kadmin 9th Jul 15, 2:17 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    2kadmin
    • #9
    • 9th Jul 15, 2:17 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Jul 15, 2:17 PM
    Hi in answer to your questions and some of the points raised as part of this thread.

    Repossessions are recorded as part of your credit history, "The Committee of Mortgage Lenders (CML) is a trade body representing the mortgage industry. It has 111 full members (banks, building societies and other mortgage lenders) and 86 associate members (other institutions who have an interest in the mortgage market) - and membership covers 94% of all UK residential mortgages.

    CML members report repossessions - called the 'Repossessions Register' - to some credit reference agencies for the purpose of trying to avoid over-indebtedness. An entry on the Repossessions Register will have a serious impact on your credit score and will remain on your credit report for six years."

    The solicitor check (the £2 bankruptcy search) is a land registry search known as a K16 search and goes back over 5 years from the date of the last entry which will be about a month after you were declared bankrupt, after this period it won't show your record. But might flag up others with a similar name, however this is the only check your solicitor is going to make.

    So after six years your record will be clean (including the repo), however your bankruptcy is still a matter for public record and still can be located using the London Gazette. I cannot recommend lying about your history, so find a broker or search online for "xxxx mortgage lending criteria" where xxxx is the lender you are hoping to borrow from. This will tell you way more than you think for example Halifax state the following about the big bad mortgage question.

    "The Bankruptcy question should be answered as yes if you have had a bankruptcy/IVA or Debt Relief Order within the last 6 years OR still have an outstanding Bankruptcy Restriction Order."

    So post 6 years BR you could answer that question NO, as per their guidelines.

    I wish you luck on your quest for a mortgage, save and save away is all I can say. I have a Mortgage, post BR and Post repo at 4.29% with Nationwide, which was achieved without lying and not through a broker at five and a half years post BR.

    I Hope this helps

    2k
    Last edited by 2kadmin; 10-07-2015 at 1:38 PM.
    • betterdaysahead
    • By betterdaysahead 9th Jul 15, 4:48 PM
    • 111 Posts
    • 59 Thanks
    betterdaysahead
    Great information 2k and great advice too. Thanks!
    • hodge263
    • By hodge263 9th Jul 15, 5:04 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    hodge263
    Thanks for your response 2k it's really helpful.
    • leighblue
    • By leighblue 10th Jul 15, 11:52 AM
    • 19 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    leighblue
    There is no such thing as a black mark on your credit file

    Some lenders will accept your application, some won't depending upon the whole picture. The size of the deposit, the stability of your income & your outgoings are the important factors. Credit history plays a part, but not with all lenders

    Never lie on an application, lenders are spending vast amount of money on fraud detection, and any suspicions are reported to the hunter system, which can seriously harm you in the long term

    Be honest, speak to an independent adviser who knows what he is doing, and mortgages are possible for discharged BR from 1 year after discharge.
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 12th Jul 15, 1:46 PM
    • 36,050 Posts
    • 151,599 Thanks
    silvercar
    Never lie on an application, lenders are spending vast amount of money on fraud detection, and any suspicions are reported to the hunter system, which can seriously harm you in the long term
    Definitely true. Also if you lie on a mortgage application you are committing fraud - obtaining money by deception. This is a criminal offence with consequences. Some lenders will ask if you have ever had a property repossessed, you have to answer truthfully.
    • Bazza73
    • By Bazza73 27th Jul 15, 4:52 PM
    • 32 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Bazza73
    Some lenders will ask if you have ever had a property repossessed, you have to answer truthfully.
    Originally posted by silvercar
    Q1: I know there used to be a mortgage repossessions database maintained by the CML, but this has been done away with (see http://www.checkmyfile.com/articles/403/mortgages/how-mortgage-repossessions-are-reported.htm). How are repossessions recorded on CRA files? Just wondering as my own repossession is not listed on any of my CRA files.


    Q2: If repossessions are recorded on your CRA file somewhere, how long do they stay there for?


    Q3: If bankruptcy legally drops off your file after 6 years, then inline with the data protection act around data being relevant, are lenders legally aloud to ask the 'ever' question? Surely they are only allowed to ask relevant questions?

    Cheers.
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 28th Jul 15, 2:17 PM
    • 36,050 Posts
    • 151,599 Thanks
    silvercar
    I think there is some confusion over answering questions truthfully and whether lenders can find out if you lie.

    Whether or not lenders can find out anything over 6 years old, if you lie you risk being found out. To lie on a mortgage application is fraud - obtaining money by deception. At worst you could be prosecuted and end up with a criminal record, there is the risk that the lender calls in the loan.

    Whether you decide to answer a question truthfully is a matter for you. If you are basing your decision on whether you are likely to be found out, judging from the posts on this thread, online searches are unlikely to reveal anything over 6 years old. Whether there is a chance that somewhere there are accessible scanned copies of the gazette is a distinct possibility.

    There is always the risk that a lender may "only" perform online searches when deciding on applications but that if you took a mortgage and ended up with arrears, someone somewhere may search deeper and find out a previous bankruptcy and use it to call in the loan.

    My worry would be that a mortgage application is accepted, you exchange on a property and then before completion the lender does further research and uncovers something that means they decline the mortgage, leaving you stuck with an obligation to complete and no money to do so.
    • 2kadmin
    • By 2kadmin 28th Jul 15, 3:25 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    2kadmin
    Firstly Silvercar is completely right and that is the best answer I think I have read on the subject of lying on applications.

    I have read a lot of scaremongering about the banks and the millions they spend on fraud detection. In reality this is to detect the applications where the fraudster has no intention of repaying the money. The bottom line is the Banks could impose many more checks on you before offering credit, such as requiring your National Insurance Number. They don't as the current system makes them billions, and in order to make that money they need a method of people with 'history' obtaining a new start. What they really want to do is lend people money, and those people pay it back, with interest of course!

    Bazza

    Q1: Not all repo's are recorded, the current scheme only covers 95% of mortgages. Is your BR on your credit file? Has your old property been sold?

    Q2: According to the CML it stays on your credit file 6 Years.

    Q3: An interesting question, technically you are correct if it's considered out of date by the credit reference agencies then no. However, it is a matter for public record... But in reality even if they found your Gazette record is there anything that could link that to yourself? On mine there is nothing other than someone with the same name as me went Bankrupt that happen to live in the same county six years ago.

    On a personal level, short of this forum day to day I have completely forgotten about my BR. I fill out credit applications when I need credit and touch wood haven't been declined. I mostly likely have lied inadvertently thinking about it, where it says tick this box to accept our terms and conditions as almost certainly thinking back one of the lenders would have some kind of caveat about having ever been BR. That said, I went to great lengths to ensure I didn't lie on my mortgage application, I didn't tell them about my BR, but technically they didn't ask either. A number of lenders including the Halifax have started to put this in the lending criteria.

    "The Bankruptcy question should be answered as yes if you have had a bankruptcy/IVA or Debt Relief Order within the last 6 years OR still have an outstanding Bankruptcy Restriction Order."

    For those of you looking for a mortgage post BR, my best advice is wait the 6 years while you save a deposit, check your credit file, and pick your lender carefully. You wont need a whole market broker and you can get a market rate. Just use Google and look up the lending criteria of the various lenders and pick the one that suits your circumstances.

    I hope this helps

    2k
    • Bazza73
    • By Bazza73 4th Aug 15, 11:10 AM
    • 32 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Bazza73
    Q1: Not all repo's are recorded, the current scheme only covers 95% of mortgages. Is your BR on your credit file? Has your old property been sold?
    Originally posted by 2kadmin
    Yes, the BR is on the file but no listing or record of the repo - this is why I was wondering if it still gets recorded somewhere else.

    Q3: An interesting question, technically you are correct if it's considered out of date by the credit reference agencies then no. However, it is a matter for public record... But in reality even if they found your Gazette record is there anything that could link that to yourself? On mine there is nothing other than someone with the same name as me went Bankrupt that happen to live in the same county six years ago.
    Originally posted by 2kadmin
    I suppose this is less of a BR question and more of one for the Information commissioners office around what questions lenders are legally allowed to ask as opposed to the ones they do ask and try to get away with asking.
    • 2kadmin
    • By 2kadmin 4th Aug 15, 11:45 AM
    • 54 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    2kadmin
    Hi Bazza,

    Then it looks like you are one of the lucky ones, was your repo post bankruptcy? I suppose if you have a BR marker it's not worth updating the file further.. The only other place that might give it away is the land registry, as they keep the House Price Index which doesn't record sales if the property is repossessed, however they would show a change of ownership. So if you looked at the land registry entries for your repo'd property it would show a change of ownership and not have a corresponding record on the house price index. However, I would think it would be unlikely that you would be listing that as a place you've lived on credit applications!

    As for the BR question.. I agree, particularly as even criminal convictions can be treated as 'spent'.. IMO the whole thing needs a shake up, however I suspect it's kept as it works for the banks. People are scared of the term 'credit fraud', and the mistaken belief all these systems are linked. The majority of people don't lie, I know of a few people who have and thus far would appear to have gotten away with it, but I don't think I could sleep at night if I had. As I have pointed out before there are ways to work the system to not lie.

    2k
    • freddy911
    • By freddy911 14th Mar 17, 1:53 PM
    • 521 Posts
    • 135 Thanks
    freddy911
    Correction of misinformation
    Repossessions are recorded as part of your credit history, "The Committee of Mortgage Lenders (CML) is a trade body representing the mortgage industry. It has 111 full members (banks, building societies and other mortgage lenders) and 86 associate members (other institutions who have an interest in the mortgage market) - and membership covers 94% of all UK residential mortgages.

    CML members report repossessions - called the 'Repossessions Register' - to some credit reference agencies for the purpose of trying to avoid over-indebtedness. An entry on the Repossessions Register will have a serious impact on your credit score and will remain on your credit report for six years."


    2k
    Originally posted by 2kadmin
    Sorry I know this is an old post but wanted to correct the incorrect info posted so other people finding this thread as I just have wont be miss informed, when people post something as fact they really should check the facts first.

    The CML repossession register was scrapped in 2010 and repossessions are no longer recorded.

    "The possessions register (the register) was a CML initiative and was established in conjunction with two major credit reference agencies namely, Experian and Equifax. The register listed properties taken into possession on both a voluntary and involuntary basis by those lenders participating in the scheme, with the aim of preventing fraud, over commitment and loss.
    The register has been withdrawn with effect from 30 June 2010 and the data held on it has been removed and destroyed. We do not believe that this will cause any consumer detriment."
    Last edited by freddy911; 14-03-2017 at 2:18 PM.
    • 2kadmin
    • By 2kadmin 14th Mar 17, 2:09 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    2kadmin
    Hi freddy911,

    Great update! At the time of writing the CML repossession section was still showing on checkmyfile.com so I assumed (incorrectly as you state that the register was still running) having been BR in 2008 it was relevant to me during my BR.

    "The improvement of the way repossessions are reported on credit reports within shared databases such as CAIS, Insight and Share resulted in the duplication of reporting of repossessions, which was cited as the reason for the abandonment of the Repossessions Register and the destruction of the database on 30 June 2010."

    So all this time on, if anyone is re-reading this for information.. The advice is still check your credit file, clean up, and apply!
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