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  • FIRST POST
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 9th Jun 15, 7:25 AM
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    Martyn1981
    Green, ethical, energy issues in the news.
    • #1
    • 9th Jun 15, 7:25 AM
    Green, ethical, energy issues in the news. 9th Jun 15 at 7:25 AM
    I thought it might be a good idea to have a thread for posting general news items that may be of interest.

    PV and the 'Solar in the news' thread attract a lot of interest, so here's a thread for all the other goings on.

    Mart.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
Page 55
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 2nd Feb 18, 11:54 AM
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    Martyn1981
    If I were the country, I'd suck for that as just dealing with the eventual nuclear waste will likely cost more than that. And, we could cover that space with wind turbines or solar. The decreasing cost of renewables would probably save money on the increasing costs of HPC and whatever electricity it eventually produces.
    Originally posted by NigeWick
    Yep. Each year since the 2012 CfD was announced and the subsidy element was £6bn, the NAO have revised down the average wholesale price for leccy in the late 2020's and early 2030's. This has effectively pushed up the subsidy element to £30bn and more lately to around £44-50bn.

    So, purely on numbers it might actually be worth 'swallowing the poison pill', but there's far more to it, we have the government's big bet on nuclear, which would be embarrassing to them, and clearly the Chinese put some sort of pressure on Theresa May when she cancelled the signing ceremony the day before for her review of the deal.

    I'm not actually criticising China or the UK on that, China was right to be peeved, and the loss of face would have been huge, and TM had to give in, as she's in a dangerous position regarding future trade with China. What a mess!

    If the US, the largest nuclear nation, gives up on nuclear and cancels the remaining two reactors under construction (having cancelled two mid build last year), then add that to Sweden, Germany, S. Korea and even France who are backing off nuclear a bit, and you are really just left with China, the UK and the UAE still moving forward 'confidently' with nuclear.

    Economics is the 800lb gorilla, and it's changed sides in the argument.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • NigeWick
    • By NigeWick 3rd Feb 18, 11:30 AM
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    NigeWick
    Yep. there's far more to it, we have the government's big bet on nuclear, which would be embarrassing to them, and clearly the Chinese put some sort of pressure on Theresa May
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    Well, we can change the government in a few years. I've always been a right winger who though Attila the Hun was a "pinko, lefty pooftah." But, I have also had green leanings in wanting a safe environment for my descendants. As I age, I am becoming more militant with regards to saving our planet from fossil and nuclear pollution.

    I actually think the Chinese people would understand if we binned HPC in order to get more of our energy from renewables.
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 3rd Feb 18, 1:22 PM
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    Martyn1981
    I actually think the Chinese people would understand if we binned HPC in order to get more of our energy from renewables.
    Originally posted by NigeWick
    Let's just offer to buy £50bn worth of PV panels instead, that should keep them happy, or allow some sweetheart deal on UK manufacturing of PV and wind turbines.

    I'm starting to wonder what HPC means for the government's nuclear ambitions, it's only the first 3.2GW of a planned 16GW rollout.

    If they cancel further nuclear plans, will that highlight the cost of HPC and raise the embarrassment factor? Will they double down on nuclear just to disguise the fact that it's really expensive? Or will they say, things have changed a lot since 2012 (true) and we are revising our position?

    I feel we are right at the top of the climb, having pushed the RE rollercoaster all the way up, and just a tiny bit more effort and it'll be free rolling at great speed ...... just a tiny bit more effort please TM please.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • NigeWick
    • By NigeWick 4th Feb 18, 8:29 AM
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    NigeWick
    If they cancel further nuclear plans, will that highlight the cost of HPC and raise the embarrassment factor?
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    That will likely be the reason they do not cancel because it can't be that HPC would ever save us money.
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 4th Feb 18, 3:30 PM
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    Martyn1981
    This is an interesting read. locals are objecting to a large wind farm proposal ........ because ....... and wait for it ....... they want to finance and build it themselves. Good for them.

    Who said that not everyone can invest in renewables?

    Crofters on Lewis fight EDF and Wood Group's windfarm proposal

    Donald John MacSween, the general manager of the Point and Sandwick Trust, said that the crofters’ plans justified the interconnector. “For generations, we’ve been living in a gale, and now that we’ve finally found a way to make money out of it, I don’t see why EDF should take it,” said MacSween. “Mind you, if we can find a way of making money out of rain and dark nights, then we’ll really be in business.”
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 5th Feb 18, 4:28 PM
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    Martyn1981
    Them's be fighting words!
    France Offers US Ultimatum: “No Paris Agreement, No Trade Agreement”

    Sounds good to me.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • NigeWick
    • By NigeWick 6th Feb 18, 10:05 AM
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    NigeWick
    Sounds good to me.
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    France can dictate EU policy? Interesting.
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 6th Feb 18, 6:39 PM
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    zeupater
    France can dictate EU policy? Interesting.
    Originally posted by NigeWick
    Hi

    If you think back, the EU/Canada trade deal was being heavily influenced by US style pork-barrel politics with the Walloons (not even a country) using the threat of using a veto ... I seem to remember seeing that Brussels wasn't too happy with the situation & were looking to take all trade related decisions away from member states at both national & regional levels in order to 'streamline' the process ... great advert for EU democracy if they can get away with it, but as it stands it certainly looks like France can make such comments & have the ability to back the position with actions! ... ... probably seriously upset some other member states though ...

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 8th Feb 18, 10:52 AM
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    Martyn1981
    Mines to take weight for storage

    Gravitricity plans to catch excess green power through disused shafts

    Edinburgh start-up Gravitricity has secured a £650,000 grant from Innovate UK to help with plans for energy storage projects at the sites of disused mines in Scotland.
    Projects are planned between 1MW and 20MW, the company said.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • michaels
    • By michaels 8th Feb 18, 11:05 AM
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    michaels
    Tech is to use large vertical range in a mine shaft to store excess grid energy as gravitational potential energy, motor uses leccy to raise hanging weight and then gives it back as generation by lowering weight when prices are higher. I wonder how efficient this is?
    https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/1pmact/how_efficient_is_gravitational_potential_energy/?st=jdeemeoz&sh=6e9cac45
    This suggests storage efficiency is high 60s which is considerably less than lithium ion.

    Also it suggests that to store the same amount of energy as a car battery as gpe would need the whole car to be raised by 200m - can this be right?
    Last edited by michaels; 08-02-2018 at 11:20 AM.
    Cool heads and compromise
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 8th Feb 18, 3:50 PM
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    zeupater
    Mines to take weight for storage

    Edinburgh start-up Gravitricity has secured a £650,000 grant from Innovate UK to help with plans for energy storage projects at the sites of disused mines in Scotland. Quote:
    Projects are planned between 1MW and 20MW, the company said.
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    Hi

    They're likely not looking to generate 20MW for long then! ... for each 1 metre the 2000tonnes is raised the energy storage through gravitational potential is little more than 5kWh, so say it's raised 300m (~1000') the potential is around 1.5MWh, therefore describing a facility which could deliver 20MW for little more than 4 minutes ((1.5/20)*60)) ...

    £650k for a study on 1.5MWh equates to well over £400/kWh of potential storage, which is more than it would cost to install a large-scale battery solution ...

    They should send me the odd £50k, buy 1.5MWh of batteries from Tesla and spend the rest on acquiring a real white elephant for Edinburgh zoo! ... at least they'd have both a working storage solution and a tourist attraction! ...

    HTH
    Z
    Last edited by zeupater; 08-02-2018 at 3:52 PM.
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 9th Feb 18, 7:59 AM
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    Martyn1981
    This is an update article on an earlier one that discussed the Stanford study giving a roadmap to show how 139 countries could operate 100% on WWS (wind, water & sun) by 2050.

    New Mark Z. Jacobson Study Draws A Roadmap To 100% Renewable Energy

    And here is the original study, showing the UK needs a lot of wind. Note the figures are the percentage from each source, not the capacity in GW's.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • lstar337
    • By lstar337 9th Feb 18, 9:04 AM
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    lstar337
    And here is the original study, showing the UK needs a lot of wind.
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    Better get eating those sprouts!
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 13th Feb 18, 11:37 AM
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    Martyn1981
    Sounds really interesting:-

    UK’s first solar-powered ‘Energiesprong’ homes nearing completion

    Once finished, the homes will all adhere to the Energiesprong principles of housing developments which stem from the Netherlands. Translating as ‘Energy Leap’, houses built to this standard are effectively net zero energy, generating sufficient energy to meet its demand.

    To this end, Melius Homes has tasked Cambridge-based Viridian Solar to supply rooftop solar panels for the refurbishment.

    Other principles of the Energiesprong approach require renovation works to be completed within one week while simultaneously allowing residents to remain in their properties. All works are covered by a 30-year warranty for the climate and energy performance and they must effectively pay for themselves through combined savings from energy bills and maintenance.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 15th Feb 18, 12:26 PM
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    Martyn1981
    I think this article is more appropriate to a green energy issue, than to the domestic storage thread.

    ‘Explosive’ battery storage growth to be driven by falling costs, renewables co-location

    Over 9,000MWh of battery energy storage could be deployed in Britain over the next five years as the sector enjoys a trend towards “explosive growth” driven largely by the country's clean energy transition, a market analyst has said.
    For an example of scale, that would be equal to a 3GW drop for the evening peak for 3hrs, or around 5%+.

    This next paragraph gives an idea of the speed the industry might develop at:

    In megawatt-hours, battery energy storage capacities installed in the UK by the end of 2022 will be 50 times what they were as 2017 ended. The report also covers a predicted trend towards longer duration storage in future, comprehensive evaluations of leading players in the industry and analysis of stakeholders.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 15th Feb 18, 12:34 PM
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    Martyn1981
    Fun article looking at 50 years of Danish wind. The chart comparing number of turbines to capacity is interesting. Today there are slightly less WT's than in 2001, but capacity has doubled as ever larger WT's are deployed and the smaller, older ones are decommissioned.

    Total Wind Capacity Surges While Total Number Of Turbines May Soon Plummet: Indulging In 4 Decades Of Danish Wind Energy Data

    In fact, the oldest 48 turbines keep going strong from the late 1970s despite having a combined capacity of only 2 megawatts. Compare that to the standard Vestas V164 turbine introduced in 2013 with a capacity of 7 — 9 megawatts (MW). That’s a 200-fold improvement!
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 15th Feb 18, 1:27 PM
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    zeupater
    ... For an example of scale, that would be equal to a 3GW drop for the evening peak for 3hrs, or around 5%+ ...
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    Hi

    To help put this into context ... that describes approx the same level of generation as half of the current nuclear capacity, half of the difference between daytime demand & evening peak, half of peak coal generation so far this winter, the proposed capacity of HinckleyC ... quite amazing really, and all likely to be in place in a quarter of the time it takes to plan & build a nuc some other forms of generation ...

    ... and all this on top of an annual reduction in energy demand of around 1% over the last few years ...

    HTH
    Z
    Last edited by zeupater; 15-02-2018 at 2:33 PM. Reason: -in
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 15th Feb 18, 3:18 PM
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    Martyn1981
    Hi

    To help put this into context ... that describes approx the same level of generation as half of the current nuclear capacity, half of the difference between daytime demand & evening peak, half of peak coal generation so far this winter, the proposed capacity of HinckleyC ... quite amazing really, and all likely to be in place in a quarter of the time it takes to plan & build a nuc some other forms of generation ...

    ... and all this on top of an annual reduction in energy demand of around 1% over the last few years ...

    HTH
    Z
    Originally posted by zeupater
    Thanks. I mentioned context because I have to admit that at first I thought 9GWh doesn't sound much, but in context, and assuming deployment keeps accelerating ..... it's actually quite a different picture.

    So whilst it may not all be available at all times, I'm sure a morning boost for the kettle and shower peak plus an evening boost for the longer and higher peak, would be greatly appreciated, and probably have a significant impact on peak prices and peak carbon intensity in the evening - low hanging fruit, and all that.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • michaels
    • By michaels 15th Feb 18, 4:01 PM
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    michaels
    Thanks. I mentioned context because I have to admit that at first I thought 9GWh doesn't sound much, but in context, and assuming deployment keeps accelerating ..... it's actually quite a different picture.

    So whilst it may not all be available at all times, I'm sure a morning boost for the kettle and shower peak plus an evening boost for the longer and higher peak, would be greatly appreciated, and probably have a significant impact on peak prices and peak carbon intensity in the evening - low hanging fruit, and all that.
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    Problem is, if you cover the peak too effectively then you get rid of the peak pricing which was the factor that made the battery investment make sense in the first place....
    Cool heads and compromise
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 15th Feb 18, 6:15 PM
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    Martyn1981
    There's now over half a TW of wind capacity in the world.

    Global Wind Installations Reach 52.5 Gigawatts In 2017, Brings Total To 539.5 Gigawatts
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
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