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  • FIRST POST
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 9th Jun 15, 7:25 AM
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    Martyn1981
    Green, ethical, energy issues in the news.
    • #1
    • 9th Jun 15, 7:25 AM
    Green, ethical, energy issues in the news. 9th Jun 15 at 7:25 AM
    I thought it might be a good idea to have a thread for posting general news items that may be of interest.

    PV and the 'Solar in the news' thread attract a lot of interest, so here's a thread for all the other goings on.

    Mart.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
Page 46
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 29th Nov 17, 4:41 PM
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    zeupater
    How often does that happen to you? Our cupboards are always well stocked and I suspect that people who live way out in the countryside will have even more provisions on hand. I honestly think you're going past extreme with your scenario. There are very few people 20 minutes drive from a market town that will have several vehicles available as taxis are now. And, "ordinary" people that do own autonomous vehicles for hire may well live out in the sticks too.

    I'm not saying you're definitely wrong about this but I certainly think you are.
    Originally posted by NigeWick
    Hi

    The issue is that the milk etc is a valid example, one of many hundreds of everyday situations which could be used, but the real test is that in major urban areas where there's currently an abundance of transport available - taxi / private hire / uber / bus / bike / tram / train / tube - and people still have cars! .. why, because they're more convenient when you want to use one ...

    Around here, we have a bus stop nearby and with a little planning you could work out the timetable so that there's not a couple of hours waiting in the rain to take you to some shops (15 minutes) or major shops (45-60minutes)... don't think about catching a taxi drivers eye as there aren't any ... private hire cars, well book one for pickup ASAP and you'll be lucky if it's here in 15-20 minutes & you can almost guarantee that you'll get a call-back saying they've driven up & down the road and can't find us (it's surprising how inaccurate most GPS-map databases are!) ... having got to the nearest train station to shop (/enjoy yipee!) in the nearest city (there aren't many coaches around here) our one or two (if you're lucky) trains/hour are going to take approx 1 hour each way ... that's the reality around here and autonomous vehicles would make little difference - they would likely average the same time to arrive as a private hire car ...

    Think about it this way ... next time you need to travel by car, get in and press the 'start' button then wait for a 1200second countdown before anything happens ... that's the reality of autonomous transport around here based on the reality of transport around here ... private hire cars take as long as they do because the supply is limited by demand ... exactly the same applies to autonomous vehicles - nobody is going to invest in a fleet which cannot pay for itself so supply will need to reflect demand .... the knock-on effect being that when demand peaks (pub/restaurant/general going out) somebody's going to be disappointed and when that's happened a couple of times people will go back to the showroom and buy their own car ...

    Now, if I lived in a massively subsidised city such as London with ample roads, people, public transport and everything else in close proximity my viewpoint may be different ... but like millions of others living in London at the moment we'd likely still have a car just for the added convenience, so why would just one additional form of shared/hired or scheduled transport make any real difference? ...

    ... it's far more likely that autonomous vehicles will replace taxi & private hire drivers in major urban areas where demand & income warrant the capital expense, however, the pre-owned private-hire cars around here will still need to be pre-owned as demand & distance based cost simply can't justify new vehicles ... apart from that, who's going to make the call ... "Sorry, but I've driven up & down the road 3 times & can't find your house .. I'm sitting at the crossroads facing the pub - which way do I go ?" ... classic, but it happens all the time - if you think that's bad, try and get a parcel delivered to houses with a name & a postcode, but no number!!

    ... isn't technology 'wonderful'/'often overstated' (delete as appropriate) ...

    HTH
    Z
    Last edited by zeupater; 29-11-2017 at 4:48 PM.
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • EricMears
    • By EricMears 29th Nov 17, 6:50 PM
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    EricMears
    if you think that's bad, try and get a parcel delivered to houses with a name & a postcode, but no number!!
    Originally posted by zeupater
    Or in the case of any of our neighbours, even quoting a house number doesn't necessarily mean that delivery drivers will find them ! Approximately 40 houses share our postcode; some of them almost half a mile away. But anyone reliant upon typing in a postcode and a number will find themselves abandoned at our gate (which just happens to be the centre of the postcode area). The 'problem' is that the houses in our vicinity are not numbered in a recognisable geographical sequence (I suspect they were numbered in order of sale of the plots in 1920) so Ordnance Survey (or whoever it is that creates the computerised maps used by satnavs) haven't worked out how to process the last few yards.
    N Derbyshire.
    4kwp S Facing 17.5deg slope (dormer roof).
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 29th Nov 17, 8:37 PM
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    zeupater
    Or in the case of any of our neighbours, even quoting a house number doesn't necessarily mean that delivery drivers will find them ! Approximately 40 houses share our postcode; some of them almost half a mile away. But anyone reliant upon typing in a postcode and a number will find themselves abandoned at our gate (which just happens to be the centre of the postcode area). The 'problem' is that the houses in our vicinity are not numbered in a recognisable geographical sequence (I suspect they were numbered in order of sale of the plots in 1920) so Ordnance Survey (or whoever it is that creates the computerised maps used by satnavs) haven't worked out how to process the last few yards.
    Originally posted by EricMears
    Hi

    ... we get exactly the same ... we do have both a house number & house name and ensure the number is used for all deliveries to help ensure whatever it is actually gets here ... just like you we are pretty much in the middle of our post-code, so for any deliveries to an address with a postcode & just a house-name, the driver tends to get directed toward us ...

    ... funny really, when you need a taxi the sat-navs usually can't find us, yet when it's a delivery for someone else, they can! ...

    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • lstar337
    • By lstar337 30th Nov 17, 9:03 AM
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    lstar337
    Well we live in a new build (2014) and delivery drivers can never find our house. Our address is '5 (house name), road name' but google maps will just take everyone to '5 road name'.

    I have tried to get google to change it several times, but they just say they disagree that the point I mark on the map is actually a house.

    As for shops, I don't live in a desolate area but it would take me over an hour to get milk without a car. The nearest shop isn't too far away, but it is at the top of quite a large hill, and there isn't a direct route.
    • silverwhistle
    • By silverwhistle 30th Nov 17, 6:42 PM
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    silverwhistle
    Think about it this way ... next time you need to travel by car,
    Originally posted by zeupater
    It's a complicated issue, that's for sure, but one of the things I'd highlight is 'need'. I have a car and sometimes use it because of 'want', but if I didn't, as was the case for many years, the solutions would be different. I'm constantly amazed at how short some of the journeys are for which people use their cars, and how different people's 'wants' and 'needs' are. Having said that, it's only 3.5 miles to football training later tonight, but I'm sorry, I'm not using the pushbike!

    Frankly the example of running out of milk I still don't reckon to be a good one, but my blood pressure tablets might qualify, even though running out would be an equal example of bad organisation!:-)

    Transport, like the grid, needs a multi-mode solution, depending on circumstances, and that is something most of us would agree on, I suspect.
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 30th Nov 17, 9:19 PM
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    zeupater
    It's a complicated issue, that's for sure, but one of the things I'd highlight is 'need'. I have a car and sometimes use it because of 'want', but if I didn't, as was the case for many years, the solutions would be different. I'm constantly amazed at how short some of the journeys are for which people use their cars, and how different people's 'wants' and 'needs' are. Having said that, it's only 3.5 miles to football training later tonight, but I'm sorry, I'm not using the pushbike!

    Frankly the example of running out of milk I still don't reckon to be a good one, but my blood pressure tablets might qualify, even though running out would be an equal example of bad organisation!:-)

    Transport, like the grid, needs a multi-mode solution, depending on circumstances, and that is something most of us would agree on, I suspect.
    Originally posted by silverwhistle
    Hi

    As mentioned earlier, for 'milk' you could substitute literally hundreds of situations where the inconvenience of having to wait for an autonomous vehicle to arrive would be either inconvenient or unacceptable ... a telephone call in the middle of the night from an elderly relative might be better, but it's not the actual situation that matters because there are so many different ones which could apply .. milk was simply anecdotal ...

    Regarding 'wants' & 'needs' ... well I'd agree that there's a difference, however this is the 21st century and modern living has created a grey area between the two ... do we really 'need' central heating, carpets, computers, fridges, watches, kettles, TVs or even dining rooms & spare bedrooms ? ... probably not but try to ban them and there'd be riots on the streets!

    The thing is that cars have now also become consumer items rather than a personal method of transport & people have become used to that being the case. Do we 'need' a car in our household, probably not if public transport was reliable and frequent or private hire vehicles were cheaper & nearer than they are ... but, they're not and that's a source of inconvenience which to many people isn't really a point open to compromise ...

    I have a pretty decent understanding of AI, self-learning & automated systems and have direct experience of various forms of this kind of technology spanning at least three decades which leaves me more than a little worried about system reliability, fault redundancy and misinterpretation at the moment. If £100million airliners which are serviced extremely regularly have had the ability to take-off, fly to a destination and land fully automatically for decades but still need a fully crewed cockpit because a technical failure could result in hundreds of fatalities, how on earth can an autonomous vehicle without a similar frequency automation-equipment (sensors, processors, power etc) checking regime, or even a second-hand mass market, be allowed to exist when each and every one of those vehicles could certainly result in similar numbers of casualties as a plane crash ?? .... I'd certainly be looking to divest from automotive & insurance stocks if I had investments in these market sectors as the initial/early risk would be huge and undoubtedly someone in these sectors will be the first to be caught-out and suffer critically ...

    I really appreciate the vision of those driving these projects, however, in understanding the fundamentals of high-availability and mission-critical systems - I'll look & wonder at the technologies involved, yet not look to buy or even get into an autonomous vehicle for decades, if ever ... more than that, I'd probably even invest in a driverless car proximity alarm system when someone develops one! ...

    HTH
    Z
    Last edited by zeupater; 30-11-2017 at 9:22 PM.
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • Dave Fowler
    • By Dave Fowler 30th Nov 17, 10:18 PM
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    Dave Fowler
    I'd be more concerned about all the rubbish that thoughtless people would leave behind in the autonomous car. Take a car from the town centre to their house complete with a take-away and leave all the packaging and left-overs in the car, or worse still, return from the pub having drunk far too much - since they don't have to drive. The car won't know what's been left behind on the seats or the floor. You wouldn't want a car like that to arrive at your home to pick you up for a journey.

    Dave F
    Solar PV System 1: 2.96kWp South+8 degrees. Roof 38 degrees. 'Normal' system
    Solar PV System 2: 3.00kWp South-4 degrees. Roof 28 degrees. SolarEdge system
    EV car
    Location: Bedfordshire
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 30th Nov 17, 10:35 PM
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    zeupater
    I'd be more concerned about all the rubbish that thoughtless people would leave behind in the autonomous car. Take a car from the town centre to their house complete with a take-away and leave all the packaging and left-overs in the car, or worse still, return from the pub having drunk far too much - since they don't have to drive. The car won't know what's been left behind on the seats or the floor. You wouldn't want a car like that to arrive at your home to pick you up for a journey.

    Dave F
    Originally posted by Dave Fowler
    Hi

    ... and there was me wondering why Friday & Saturday late night cabs had a much stronger leather-polish aroma than the rest of the week! ....

    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • Exiled Tyke
    • By Exiled Tyke 1st Dec 17, 7:00 AM
    • 254 Posts
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    Exiled Tyke
    A brilliant significant step forward.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-42190358
    Install 28th Nov 15, 3.3kW, (11x300LG), SolarEdge, SW. W Yorks.
    • Sterlingtimes
    • By Sterlingtimes 1st Dec 17, 10:11 AM
    • 1,374 Posts
    • 3,785 Thanks
    Sterlingtimes
    A brilliant significant step forward.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-42190358
    Originally posted by Exiled Tyke
    100-megawatt, but at what cost of supply and what cost of periodic replacement? This could be a case of technology being ahead of the market.
    Solar installed 21 November 2014 > Centre of England > 3,780 Wp > 14 *270 Watt Trina panels > 14 * Enphase micro-inverters > managed by Enlighten Envoy Hub > 19° west of south > 35° pitch > tree shading to east > iBoost > Wattson Anywhere monitoring > Ovo Smart Gateway > Schneider Electric (Drayton) MiGenie smart thermostat.
    • NigeWick
    • By NigeWick 1st Dec 17, 11:53 AM
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    NigeWick
    nobody is going to invest in a fleet which cannot pay for itself so supply will need to reflect demand ....
    Originally posted by zeupater
    Doesn't have to be a fleet though. Individuals who own autonomous vehicles will want to make a bit of pocket money when they're not using them (90%) of the time. I presume from your comments you live "beyond the back of beyond."
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 1st Dec 17, 1:32 PM
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    zeupater
    Doesn't have to be a fleet though. Individuals who own autonomous vehicles will want to make a bit of pocket money when they're not using them (90%) of the time. I presume from your comments you live "beyond the back of beyond."
    Originally posted by NigeWick
    Hi

    Your car, your investment .... now factor in DF's post #907 and make an allowance for insurance & public liability insurance etc ...

    The issue here revolves around a pretty basic concept ..... would you be willing to 'hire/lend' a spanking new & pretty expensive lump of easily marketable & valuable 'spare parts' to a string of complete strangers, either for free or for a sum which must logically be lower than current private hire vehicle costs (say £3-£5 a time) ? ... most people lock their cars for a reason & most insurance companies recognise this within the payable premium - increase the risk, increase the cost!

    HTH
    Z
    Last edited by zeupater; 01-12-2017 at 1:35 PM.
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 1st Dec 17, 2:14 PM
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    Martyn1981
    Elon Musk comes good on 100-day, 100 MW South Australia battery promise

    From zero to 100 MW in 60 days – Tesla’s impressive speed is not merely reserved for the electric vehicle (EV) sector. The U.S. firm, headed by doyen of the tech and entrepreneurial world Elon Musk, has today turned on the world’s largest battery in South Australia – some 40 days ahead of schedule.

    The 100 MW (129 MWh) Hornsdale Power Reserve neighbors the Hornsdale Wind Farm – owned and operated by French renewable developer Neoen – and has been developed to deliver stability and greater reliability to South Australia’s state electricity grid. The size of the battery reserves is enough to power 30,000 households local households.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • NigeWick
    • By NigeWick 2nd Dec 17, 10:41 AM
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    NigeWick
    The issue here revolves around a pretty basic concept ..... would you be willing to 'hire/lend' a spanking new & pretty expensive lump of easily marketable & valuable 'spare parts' to a string of complete strangers, either for free or for a sum which must logically be lower than current private hire vehicle costs (say £3-£5 a time) ? ... most people lock their cars for a reason & most insurance companies recognise this within the payable premium - increase the risk, increase the cost!
    Originally posted by zeupater
    Thinking aloud:- What about eBay type feedback? Customers would have to use their bank account or plastic as with Uber and others now. Once they are not good customers, their details would likely be circulated and they would never get a ride again. Insurance would cover one lot of damage or clean up before getting more expensive. I am sure that insurance companies will iron out the details and their bean counters come up with an algorithm to suit all parties. I would be a customer as it will save £thousands.
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 2nd Dec 17, 2:59 PM
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    zeupater
    Thinking aloud:- What about eBay type feedback? Customers would have to use their bank account or plastic as with Uber and others now. Once they are not good customers, their details would likely be circulated and they would never get a ride again. Insurance would cover one lot of damage or clean up before getting more expensive. I am sure that insurance companies will iron out the details and their bean counters come up with an algorithm to suit all parties. I would be a customer as it will save £thousands.
    Originally posted by NigeWick
    Hi

    Okay, maybe you could save £thousands by having access to an autonomous vehicle, but that's only possible if you don't have a vehicle yourself ... the issue here is that for the cost of access to that vehicle and the downside of hiring, waiting & the possibility that it'd be late, you might as well use public transport, taxi or private hire car as you can do today, so the savings are already available to people who live in urban areas ... yet they still have cars ..

    Now, let's look at the same issue from another viewpoint, bottlenecking .... If 90% of the current number of vehicles on the road disappear due to usage efficiencies (as has been claimed), then availability bottlenecks will be created at particular times (school run, start work, end work) ... demand will simply outstrip supply - it logically has to ...

    ... yes there are argument that schools could stagger start times, but that also means that working parents would need added employment flexibility for parents & teachers, who may also be parents with their own requirements. This may be possible for many people with jobs which are flexible in nature ... but what about the shopworker who needs to be available to serve customers from a particular time -or- the factory worker, or the nuclear power station safety officer .. etc, etc ....

    I believe that autonomous vehicles will have a place in the transport mix, but have very strong reservations as to the validity of many of the claims and ambitious views being pushed by what are no more than industries creating a marketplace for a technology product which currently doesn't exist which is being pushed as a solution to a problem which if you were to give some thought also doesn't exist - because the gap in the market is already filled by public transport, taxis & private hire vehicles.

    The fact that the sector which the new technology needs to break into first already exists creates a competitive pressure, and this is very important ... once the initial 'awe' created by travelling in a driverless metal coffin box wears off, then the price of that mode of transport will need to be fully competitive with the alternatives ... that means complex and expensive new vehicles operating at a cost to compete with highly capital depreciated second-life (/pre-owned) vehicles driven by someone content to earn little more than a minimum wage ... this is the conundrum to which I've seen no realistic solution offered.

    EVs do not need to be autonomous, the two are separate, yet for some reason (& I have ideas why!) the two are being tied together by those involved in the market sector .... isn't the cloud technology thought process great ... until established!

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 2nd Dec 17, 3:49 PM
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    Martyn1981
    Hi

    Okay, maybe you could save £thousands by having access to an autonomous vehicle, but that's only possible if you don't have a vehicle yourself ... the issue here is that for the cost of access to that vehicle and the downside of hiring, waiting & the possibility that it'd be late, you might as well use public transport, taxi or private hire car as you can do today, so the savings are already available to people who live in urban areas ... yet they still have cars ..

    HTH
    Z
    Originally posted by zeupater
    But that's the big issue, and the disruption that Tony Seba is forecasting. Why don't we all just use taxi's today ... because of the cost. But what if the cost fell 90%*, and we didn't have to waste time or money parking at the other end, then would we still stick with our own cars?

    *The 90% figure is a compilation of many factors that the autonomous car brings together:

    1. Cost of the 'taxi'. With EV's expected to be good for 500,000 miles+, they will last 3x the mileage of an ICE, so that's a third of the cost.

    2. Cost per mile. EV's v's petrol should be about 1/10th the cost taking fuel and maintenance into account.

    3. The driver, removing the driver saves the single largest cost per mile of the taxi.

    It all sounds semi-nuts, but when you look at all the pieces they do add up, and he may well have a point.

    The true disruption though will start from the young when they save £5k or so by not learning to drive (£1k to pass test, £2k insurance, £2k cheap(ish) car). That'll buy em a lot of autonomous miles.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 2nd Dec 17, 9:14 PM
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    zeupater
    But that's the big issue, and the disruption that Tony Seba is forecasting. Why don't we all just use taxi's today ... because of the cost. But what if the cost fell 90%*, and we didn't have to waste time or money parking at the other end, then would we still stick with our own cars?

    *The 90% figure is a compilation of many factors that the autonomous car brings together:

    1. Cost of the 'taxi'. With EV's expected to be good for 500,000 miles+, they will last 3x the mileage of an ICE, so that's a third of the cost.

    2. Cost per mile. EV's v's petrol should be about 1/10th the cost taking fuel and maintenance into account.

    3. The driver, removing the driver saves the single largest cost per mile of the taxi.

    It all sounds semi-nuts, but when you look at all the pieces they do add up, and he may well have a point.

    The true disruption though will start from the young when they save £5k or so by not learning to drive (£1k to pass test, £2k insurance, £2k cheap(ish) car). That'll buy em a lot of autonomous miles.
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    Hi

    I really do appreciate & understand the arguments which are used ... but in addressing the above ....

    1. Like many (/most?) areas of the country, there aren't many real taxis around here, it's almost exclusively private hire vehicles, most of which are highly depreciated ex-fleet vehicles not dedicated new black cabs ... so capital depreciation is already low ...

    2. An EV with a driver also meets this criteria ... There's nothing wrong with EVs being used, it's the risk associated with forms of unrestricted autonomous transport being fully in control of passenger safety & lives ... high availability & safety critical systems still have a habit of failing which need either fully mirrored and fully redundant system backup to be immediately available - or manual override ...

    3. Accepted, the driver is expensive, but then again the definition of 'expensive' to the customer (/passenger) can only be weighed against the journey cost per passenger mile ... without knowing what this cost would be for driverless vs driven taxis including all costs we simply can't tell.

    On the adding-up side, I've yet to see mention of insurance after the initial and inevitable spate of fatalities ... then again, there's the loss of driver tax revenue to HM Treasury which would logically need to be replaced by some form of business based autonomous vehicle taxation ...

    However, much of this is insignificant ... how many times do people just go out for a ride somewhere .. to the seaside, a park, somewhere remote with a stunning view, or simply wherever the road leads ... the car isn't just a method of transport from A to B, it's a status symbol, a provider of convenience, a pass-time, an entertainment box .....

    Regarding the disruption through removing the cost of learning to drive etc - the same question needs to be asked as can be asked right now ... why do people living in heavily populated urban areas with access to plenty of readily available & frequent public transport on their doorstep learn to drive ?? ...

    Henry Ford changed the world a century ago when the Model-T cut the public-transport and Hackney-Cab bonds for millions of people and it will take a considerable effort to turn the clock back 100 years and put the genie back in the bottle. Many people become emotionally connected to their cars to the point of naming them and becoming upset when they finally need to go ... that's one very large ingrained connection to believe will be severed within a short period (a decade-or-so ?), therefore there's a strong chance that the rate of change/acceptance will be lower than expected ...

    Whichever way it goes, it'd take a pretty long time developing a flawless safety track record before I'd step into a random driverless coffin vehicle without prior access to technical specs & the complete history (service, duty, accident etc) of that particular one ...

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 3rd Dec 17, 8:48 AM
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    Martyn1981
    Regarding the disruption through removing the cost of learning to drive etc - the same question needs to be asked as can be asked right now ... why do people living in heavily populated urban areas with access to plenty of readily available & frequent public transport on their doorstep learn to drive ?? ...

    HTH
    Z
    Originally posted by zeupater
    Hiya. Same reason, the cost issue. If the cost of a taxi falls by 90% why would they bother learning to drive. This is the key issue and reason for the disruption that Tony is suggesting.

    For myself I live about 3 miles from the center of Cardiff, and a taxi journey would be about £10 each way. At £1 each way it's simply not worth bothering with the hassle of parking, even before considering the cost of parking, or the variable costs of my car.

    I haven't seen anyone do any analysis on Tony's 90% cost reduction, but based on the 3 reasons I gave previously, it would seem fair.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • NigeWick
    • By NigeWick 3rd Dec 17, 11:05 AM
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    NigeWick
    But what if the cost fell 90%*, and we didn't have to waste time or money parking at the other end, then would we still stick with our own cars?
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    4. One of the things young Master Seba mentioned was ride sharing to bring the cost down even further.

    Take Z's school run, three or four youngsters living close to each other or up to a mile apart all going to the same school could be picked up by one autonomous vehicle. There'd be an app to sort out the the pick up/drop off points and no driver to concern the responsible person sending them.

    And of course there will be cameras in the vehicle just in case of naughtiness or any challenges that may require attention.
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 3rd Dec 17, 12:07 PM
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    Martyn1981
    4. One of the things young Master Seba mentioned was ride sharing to bring the cost down even further.
    Originally posted by NigeWick
    This is something that I've pondered too, as the issue is will the number of cars at peak time be reduced, and initially the answer is no.

    I suggested car sharing on Navitron, but the thoughts were that people could do this today but don't. However I think there is a difference here as no co-ordination would be needed, or driving out of the way to collect/drop off a colleague.

    Let's say you request a car, and opting for car-sharing gives you a discount regardless, so a £1 journey becomes 80p.

    Then half way someone else requests a car sharing in the same direction, and a pick up on the route, so it stops for them, now you pay 40p for the first half of the journey and 20p for the second half, without any messing around.

    I'm starting to change my mind as to Tony's idea. I no longer wonder if it's possible, but rather how it could not happen, when you have a tonne or more of reminder outside constantly pointing out the £1,000's or £10'000's you have 'wasted'.

    I've got a horrible feeling that when I can afford/justify an EV, it'll be almost too late. I hope I don't miss out.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
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