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  • FIRST POST
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 9th Jun 15, 7:25 AM
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    Martyn1981
    Green, ethical, energy issues in the news.
    • #1
    • 9th Jun 15, 7:25 AM
    Green, ethical, energy issues in the news. 9th Jun 15 at 7:25 AM
    I thought it might be a good idea to have a thread for posting general news items that may be of interest.

    PV and the 'Solar in the news' thread attract a lot of interest, so here's a thread for all the other goings on.

    Mart.
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
Page 35
    • michaels
    • By michaels 11th Sep 17, 8:35 AM
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    michaels
    Or how about 57.50?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41220948
    Cool heads and compromise
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 11th Sep 17, 8:41 AM
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    Martyn1981
    hi all
    Latest bids for off shore wind
    Two firms said they were willing to build offshore wind farms for a subsidy of £57.50 per megawatt hour. That compares with new nuclear plants at a subsidy of £92.50 per megawatt hour for 2022-23.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41220948
    here is the full report.
    Regards
    gefnew
    Originally posted by gefnew
    Hiya govt paper here with results:

    Contracts for Difference Second Allocation Round Results

    Off shore wind got:
    £74.75 for 2021/22 - 860MW capacity
    £57.50 for 2022/23 - 2,336MW capacity

    Those results are simply mind blowing. They are in 2012 £'s, so compare to HPC's £97 today at roughly £78 & £60 respectively.

    Edit - previously I said sub £70 Shirley not ...... so sub £60 ...... sometimes I love being wrong! It's like Xmas came early. M.
    Last edited by Martyn1981; 11-09-2017 at 8:51 AM. Reason: Added an edit.
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • michaels
    • By michaels 11th Sep 17, 11:34 AM
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    michaels
    There is a discussion over in the arms if anyone can be bothered to head over and give the facts on intermitency costs.
    Cool heads and compromise
    • michaels
    • By michaels 11th Sep 17, 4:11 PM
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    michaels
    So I am trying to understand intermittency.

    Lets image a model with only 4 power sources, PV, Wind, instant high carbon energy (gas, diesel turbine) and storage.

    Now we want to optimise with some trade off between minimising total cost and carbon production.

    Demand mostly fluctuates on a daily cycle with some seasonality.

    Solar in generally fluctuate on a daily cycle that doesn't quite match the demand fluctuations, has greater seasonality and that seasonality is inverse to demand.
    Wind fluctuates randomly but with some seasonality that matches demand and in thus inverse to solar seasonality.
    Storage and instant generation can follow net demand.

    Storage, wind and solar are likely to have high capital cost but low per unit cost and low carbon.
    On demand generation is likely to have low capital cost but high per unit cost.

    SO in the model you draw the demand line then subtract the wind and solar production lines perhaps using as many years historical meterologoical data as you can get to give you the average gap and maximum gap.

    Then you need enough storage and instant generation to cover the biggest shortfall recorded (plus a safety margin).

    At this point depending on the cost of storage relative to instant generation you can decide what the mix between the two should be. In order to make the problem easier perhaps rather than considering carbon and cost separately you set a 'carbon price' so you can could a monetary value on the carbon produced both in capital and production.

    SO that is my theoretical model. Does anyone have any good links to where these calcs have been done in reality?
    Cool heads and compromise
    • silverwhistle
    • By silverwhistle 11th Sep 17, 9:14 PM
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    silverwhistle
    Can I complicate the issue and add tidal? :-)

    It is actually a complicated issue dealing with intermittencies and getting the costings right. I'd also add that it appears that peaks are getting smaller. Efficiencies of appliances and lighting are one aspect, plus there is a small but increasing number of aware consumers, mainly due to the use of domestic solar panels. Commercial users on monthly demand tariffs have always been aware of the impact of peak usage and the related demand charges and what they could do to mitigate the cost - Pf correction, phased switching etc.. (Actually, one of my early jobs at the electricty board was explaining to some small monthly users why their bill was so large - perhaps not _all_ of them understood!).

    Other commercial users have also had interruptible supplies, so the concept of balancing costs and gambling against potential downsides has always existed. So demand management and the costs to enable users to assess their own choices is another calculation to throw into the model.
    • silverwhistle
    • By silverwhistle 11th Sep 17, 10:18 PM
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    silverwhistle
    Incidentally I note in yesterday's article in The Grauniad:

    If the guaranteed price of power is as low as £70 per MW hour – a level at the extreme end of what industry figures think is credible..
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 12th Sep 17, 7:12 AM
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    Martyn1981
    Commercial users on monthly demand tariffs have always been aware of the impact of peak usage and the related demand charges and what they could do to mitigate the cost - Pf correction, phased switching etc.. (Actually, one of my early jobs at the electricty board was explaining to some small monthly users why their bill was so large - perhaps not _all_ of them understood!).

    Other commercial users have also had interruptible supplies, so the concept of balancing costs and gambling against potential downsides has always existed. So demand management and the costs to enable users to assess their own choices is another calculation to throw into the model.
    Originally posted by silverwhistle
    Hiya, I think this fits in with some of the issues you raise, it's storage designed to avoid peak pricing for commercial users. By storing PV or being charged from the mains at low demand periods, it too will help to smooth out supply/demand issues addressing peaks and intermittency .... I think?

    Tesla battery joins 3.8MW rooftop solar to avoid peak charges, provide grid services

    One of the largest rooftop solar installations in the UK is to add a Tesla battery in what is thought to be the first UK project to use a commercial PV array to charge an energy storage system to avoid grid charges and provide ancillary services.

    The 500kW/950kWh Tesla system will be connected ‘behind-the-meter’ to the 3.8MWp solar array atop Lyreco’s distribution centre in Telford, where it will help the building supplies firm increase its self-consumption and avoid peak and Triad charges during winter periods.
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 12th Sep 17, 12:24 PM
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    Martyn1981
    Another view / opinion on the UK's energy direction.

    The U.K. Has Locked Itself Into Nuclear Power for 35 Years, but Wind Is Already Cheaper

    The collapse in wind energy prices is due to a number of factors: the business is now more mature, so suppliers have gotten better at making specialized equipment like cables and platforms; banks are more familiar with the concept, and so are more willing to finance such projects; but the biggest single reason is scale. Whereas the first generation of offshore wind turbines stood no taller than Big Ben's 96 meters, current turbines stand up to 276 meters high and have a rotor diameter of up to 180 meters, generating up to 8 megawatts each. And, in the crowded U.K., only offshore sites can offer the kind of large sites readily available in Texas and elsewhere across the U.S. Midwest. Hornsea 2, some 60 miles off the coast of north-east England, has a nameplate capacity of 1,386 MW, capable of powering over 1.44 million homes.
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 12th Sep 17, 1:05 PM
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    Martyn1981
    £8bn Cardiff tidal lagoon power deal 'agreed'

    TLP said the Swansea project would cost £89.90 per mega-watt hour (MWh) of electricity delivered to the grid for its entire 90-year lifespan.

    The Cardiff follow-up project costs would be £60-£70/MWh, as it benefits from lower supply-chain costs, it added.
    Also worth pointing out that 'weighting' is required when comparing these costs. The Swansea scheme is relatively small, so less generation will receive that higher payment. The Cardiff scheme should generate approx 10x as much.
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • silverwhistle
    • By silverwhistle 12th Sep 17, 7:34 PM
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    silverwhistle
    It's a shame the environment has to suffer for your low heating costs.
    Originally posted by goodfella321
    Sorry, didn't mean to ignore you, this interweb thingy is a bit big!

    It's a question of balance, I suppose. Do you run a diesel? Do you have many flights in a year? I have only one return flight a year and some years none, I keep the mileage down on my ammortised petrol car and use other transport where possible.

    What I do try and do is burn efficiently. I've had three seasons and three visits from the sweep and only one sweep needed, and that was on the precautionary priciple. I don't live in a large urban area and am a scrounger of wood that would otherwise go to waste and rot down to CO2. Some of my neighbours know of the stove and point me in the direction of free wood too and I've had no complaints.

    The figures in that article about needing 10 acres is for US conditions, not my little, efficient terrace which needs very little to keep it warm.
    • michaels
    • By michaels 12th Sep 17, 11:36 PM
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    michaels
    Isn't there a particulates issue with burning wood though which impacts local air quality? I guess a bit like diesel cars, do it in an irban environment and the impact on lungs is much more comcentrated.
    Cool heads and compromise
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 13th Sep 17, 10:54 AM
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    zeupater
    Isn't there a particulates issue with burning wood though which impacts local air quality? I guess a bit like diesel cars, do it in an irban environment and the impact on lungs is much more comcentrated.
    Originally posted by michaels
    Hi

    I suppose it all depends on which school of thought is followed ...

    Like opposition to almost anything to do with renewable energy provision, the argument against each individual source is escalated to assess the position at 100% saturation, which would never be the case ... however, when pointing out that the only heating energy source approaching anywhere near 100% is fossil-fuel based gas the discussion normally concludes with mention of the other 'big industry' controlled 100% solution ....

    If everyone turned to burning wood as a sustainable solution, then the source would be overwhelmed, therefore not sustainable. There's a limited supply of wood, so although it can help in the sustainable energy mix, the percentage is limited.

    As for particulates resulting from combustion, yes it's called smoke - the higher the concentration of particulates, the more visible the smoke. Argument against burning logs usually tends to reference 'big city' smogs caused by concentrations of combustion and the effects on health prior to 'clean-air' legislation .... unfortunately, those utilising this argument tend to overlook the method of combustion.

    Open fires tend to burn hot at source, but rapid cooling with distance cause the volatiles to escape the combustion process, resulting in both poor energy efficiency and the emission of particulate matter ... smoke ...

    Modern efficient log burners are designed to retain the volatiles within the combustion chamber and through the introduction of more air, burn those too, therefore increasing burn efficiency and reducing particulate matter considerably ... after an initial release of smoke & condensation from within the chimney within the first 10-15 minutes I doubt that many would even know that we're burning ... sometimes there a clue when there's a heat shimmer above the chimney's shadow and often, when the air is cold but humid, the heat emitted and any residual particles cause a small area of condensed air about a metre above the chimney and that's about it ... so not quite as bad as it was over 70 years ago!

    So onto argument related to 'Black Carbon' .. well, not much escapes our burner, however, there's been plenty of low efficiency burning from forest fires and land clearance recently which although newsworthy enough to make the headlines, never seems to be mentioned within articles related to log-burners and the environment ...

    Now, particulate matter ... we're continually told that the major source in urban environments is diesel vehicles, followed by the increased popularity of wood-burning stoves ... however, I suggest that anyone interested simply investigates the relative proportions and sources of particulate matter and the relative concentration between high population concentration urban environments and open countryside ... or even quaint & remote little seaside communities ... the outcome may not exactly mirror the headlines, but it's quite interesting all the same ...

    HTH
    Z
    Last edited by zeupater; 13-09-2017 at 11:00 AM.
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 13th Sep 17, 3:30 PM
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    Martyn1981
    Article about storage at PV sites, but the change in rules presumably applies to all RE, so may mean a speed up of deployment of storage at supply side sites.

    RO accreditation retained by Anesco after adding storage to solar farms

    Ofgem has made a “game changer” decision for UK energy storage by confirming that solar farms are able to retain accreditation under the Renewables Obligation (RO) when supplying electricity to batteries.
    Luke Hargreaves, head of renewables at Ofgem, said: “Battery storage can assist with system balancing and save consumers money by matching supply and demand. It has the potential to play an important role as Britain makes the transition to a low carbon, smarter and more flexible energy system.

    “The recent decisions demonstrate that, where the necessary criteria are met, co-location of storage facilities at accredited renewable installations is possible under the current legislative framework.”

    In a recent blog for Solar Power Portal, Solar Media market research analyst Lauren Cook said the UK currently has a 3.5GW pipeline of utility-scale energy storage projects, writing that the queue of projects was diverse, with a wide range of business models, applications and project sizes.
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 14th Sep 17, 1:13 PM
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    Martyn1981
    Bit thrown by this article, I wasn't expecting to see such big numbers so soon. [See my bold.]

    Interview: India’s storage market readies the ground for growth

    The executive director of the India Energy Storage Alliance (IESA) Rahul Walawalkar, talks to pv magazine about India’s vast energy storage potential ahead of next week’s World Energy Storage Day.

    What do you expect from the Indian energy storage market in terms of investment?
    Rahul Walawalkar: The market for energy storage in the South Asia region is dominated by India. Energy storage has almost 20 different applications in India, such as renewable integration, grid ancillary services, diesel minimization, micro-grids for energy access and campuses, as well as electric vehicles.

    India Energy Storage Alliance (IESA) estimates the market for energy storage would grow to 100-200 GWh between 2017-22. Due to this growth, we anticipate existing energy storage and PCS companies to expand their existing capacities for manufacturing as well as new investments to target new lithium-ion cell manufacturing. As per our initial estimates, India could attract investments in the energy storage devices manufacturing sector to a tune of $4-6 billion in next five years. With growing opportunities globally, we are confident that India will not only be one of the largest markets for advanced storage technologies, but it can become a global hub for manufacturing, with significant export potential to South East Asia and MENA.
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 14th Sep 17, 2:05 PM
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    zeupater
    Hi All

    Interesting comments from Rolls Royce following the offshore wind price mic drop ...

    Small-scale nuclear projects could deliver electricity to Britain for a similar cost as offshore wind, Rolls-Royce said on Tuesday, providing another potential option for a country struggling to get big nuclear projects off the ground.
    www.reuters.com

    ... don't think it'll fit at the back of my garage though! ...

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • lstar337
    • By lstar337 14th Sep 17, 2:38 PM
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    lstar337
    ... don't think it'll fit at the back of my garage though! ...

    HTH
    Z
    Originally posted by zeupater
    Nor would an off-shore turbine I'm guessing.
    • silverwhistle
    • By silverwhistle 14th Sep 17, 3:52 PM
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    silverwhistle
    Modern efficient log burners are designed to /SNIP/
    Originally posted by zeupater
    An excellent summary, and a little longer than is my wont!

    I'd hope to get my flue thermometer up to efficient burning temperature within 10 minutes, after which you'd be hard pressed to work out if it was on. I also have a moisture meter to make sure what goes on there is dry. My neighbour two doors down has one (he's a forestry worker) and they also know how to burn, so nobody notices and that's about it locally. I use mine as my primary heat source in spite of GCH, but it's the lifestyle supplement people who burn inefficiently.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 14th Sep 17, 5:52 PM
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    Martyn1981
    Hi All

    Interesting comments from Rolls Royce following the offshore wind price mic drop ...



    www.reuters.com

    ... don't think it'll fit at the back of my garage though! ...

    HTH
    Z
    Originally posted by zeupater
    Ahh go on go on, as Mrs Doyle would say. Someone has to be an early adopter.

    I'm all for a broad energy mix, but RR has identified a 2035 market equal in size to what PV generates today, (65-85GW - page 5 rhs) when you take cf into account.

    So in 20yrs will they be able to sell something around the world that PV and even off-shore wind can match today. I reckon they may be too far behind the curve now to ever catch up.
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 14th Sep 17, 6:25 PM
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    Martyn1981
    Interesting article looking at the costs of delaying investment in renewables in the UK.

    Delays In Renewable Deployment Could Cost UK Consumers £2.6 Billion

    Green Alliance analysis has determined that the UK Government has cut back on renewables so much that there is a queue of 65 terawatt-hours of renewable energy waiting to be developed — which would account for approximately 20% of the UK’s energy consumption. This pipeline could also be developed for much less than the comparable amount of natural gas.
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 14th Sep 17, 6:42 PM
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    Martyn1981
    Busy news day today. Drax looking at storage and gas generation

    UK power firm Drax plans world’s largest battery storage project

    Drax, a U.K. power company, has announced that it is seeking planning permission to continue the reinvention of its North Yorkshire coal plant by installing a 200 MW battery onsite.

    If approved and commissioned, the storage facility would be the biggest in the world, dwarfing the 129 MW lithium-ion battery project currently being built in Australia by Tesla and Neoen.

    Drax first announced plans to convert its 2,500 acre coal-fired plant – which is the largest in the U.K. and one of the largest in Europe – earlier this year, and has already switched three of the six units from coal to biomass.

    These new proposals would see the remaining coal capacity idled and replaced with 3.6 GW of new gas generation capacity and the 200 MW battery storage facility. Drax said that the proposal is “subject to a positive investment decision and would need to be underpinned by a 15-year capacity market contract”.

    The upgrade would significantly enhance Drax’s flexible and responsive power capability, placing the English county of Yorkshire at the forefront of the global energy storage sector in the process.
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
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