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  • FIRST POST
    • JustAnotherSaver
    • By JustAnotherSaver 22nd May 15, 6:50 PM
    • 2,389Posts
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    JustAnotherSaver
    TV licence people wanting to open a 'full investigation'.
    • #1
    • 22nd May 15, 6:50 PM
    TV licence people wanting to open a 'full investigation'. 22nd May 15 at 6:50 PM
    I've made a thread previously on this but today a different kind of letter has come through the door so i'm asking again.

    When we bought the house we got letters through from the TV licensing people & i got back in touch twice to say we didn't need a licence (we had no TV).

    I say again: I told them TWICE.

    They still kept on sending letters saying we needed a licence & they were all addressed to "The Occupier". So i just binned them.

    I know some of you go down the easy life route but i go down the how many times do i have to tell you before it sinks in route & the once is good enough route

    This has been going on for over 12 months i think now. Talk of court action & then the cycle goes again.

    But today a letter came through with a specific date on it. I don't know if it's a new way of them doing things but it said if i don't get a licence by this date then for now they're not sending anyone out & our situation is "on hold" but after this date they will carry out a "full investigation" of our house.

    We've since moved in & we have a TV although we only use it for DVDs & the only TV watching we do is on BBC iPlayer & the like. Nothing live.

    Still addressed to "The Occupier".

    What is this "full investigation" & do they have any right to enter the house?



    Just to save people any time - don't bother saying "just call them & explain" or "just go online & tell them again" etc. I shouldn't have to. They've been told twice already. I don't need to keep getting in touch with them once a month to remind them. I'll update them if the situation ever changes.

Page 5
    • Kernel Sanders
    • By Kernel Sanders 21st Apr 17, 11:01 PM
    • 3,122 Posts
    • 1,283 Thanks
    Kernel Sanders
    OOpps. I did get this wrong, didn't I!
    Originally posted by poppasmurf_bewdley
    Well, you're in good company...
    The radio licence was 1 guinea (£1 5s)
    Originally posted by unforeseen
    A guinea was £1 1s.
    • konn1ch1ha
    • By konn1ch1ha 14th Jun 17, 10:31 AM
    • 116 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    konn1ch1ha
    Question relating to TV License Enforcement Officer in home (I don't have a TV Licens
    Hi all,

    First time post in this sub.

    Last night, I had a knock on the door, I answered it to an unannounced TV License Enforcement Officer (EO). She explained who she was and asked if she could be admitted to the property. I had a nano-think and realised there were no TVs on at the time so she cannot prove of me watching live TV, so I allowed her entry (I've always believed they have to catch you red-handed watching live TV(?), that was my justification).

    I explained that I only watch YouTube, DVDs and my girlfriend's Netflix (of course, I've watched TV for the General Election, Question Time and the like), whilst practicing my drum stuff/music, which is mainly true. She said that was fine.

    Here's the confusing bit - she asked me to turn on my (Smart) TV, I did so it came up with the bog standard, built-in applications ie Netflix, iPlayer, Amazon. I mentioned, which is true, I don't use the the Smart TV features because it's crap and flaky, I use my friend's Play Station 3 instead, so I tuned that on. Again, I mentioned that I only watch Netflix and proceeded to sign into it. The PS also had a few options suggesting Netflix, iPlayer (other media players) that are built in to the device.

    She asked me for my details (name and phone number) and as I was about to answer, she quickly asked me how long I'm staying here, which I replied less than a month (our contract ends in that time). She then mentioned she didn't need my details after I offered them again. I then asked "are we done here, is there anything we've done wrong?", she replied there wasn't and we returned to the conversation of moving house and what area I'll be moving to. Followed by a contact number of her estate agents.

    She was friendly, didn't read out any legal !!!!!!!! ("you have the right to remain silent etc"), didn't take details and didn't say we were in trouble. What evidence or how much truth is in this? She didn't catch me watching live TV only saw some apps on the PS, which is surely not evidential enough? Where can she go from here?

    TL;DR - TV EO came into flat, asked me to turn on TV, saw some apps ie iPlayer, Netflix (which were not in use at the time), didn't take details and talked about estate agents and then left. What happens now?
    Last edited by konn1ch1ha; 14-06-2017 at 11:10 AM.
    • glentoran99
    • By glentoran99 14th Jun 17, 10:38 AM
    • 4,704 Posts
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    glentoran99
    Did you sign anything?
    • konn1ch1ha
    • By konn1ch1ha 14th Jun 17, 11:08 AM
    • 116 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    konn1ch1ha
    Did you sign anything?
    Originally posted by glentoran99
    Signed nothing.
    • glentoran99
    • By glentoran99 14th Jun 17, 12:40 PM
    • 4,704 Posts
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    glentoran99
    wouldn't worry then, but I also wouldn't let them in again
    • rtho782
    • By rtho782 14th Jun 17, 2:36 PM
    • 1,006 Posts
    • 711 Thanks
    rtho782
    The fact that apps exist is not enough. You have internet access and the BBC website exists, that doesn't prove you use it.

    However, never ever talk to them or let them in or give them your details. Best reaction is complete silence and close the door.
    Deposit Saved since 01/12/15: £13,000 / £15,000 House Bought!

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    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 14th Jun 17, 3:53 PM
    • 9,263 Posts
    • 8,764 Thanks
    Cornucopia
    (I've always believed they have to catch you red-handed watching live TV(?), that was my justification).
    Originally posted by konn1ch1ha
    That is certainly one option. However, most TVL prosecutions are based on confession evidence, and there is evidence of a certain amount of foul-play in that respect from BBC-TVL from time to time.

    You are not obliged to let them in to your premises (unless they have a warrant). Their website confirms this.

    You are not obliged to answer their questions whether under caution or not - their website confirms this, too.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

    Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • konn1ch1ha
    • By konn1ch1ha 14th Jun 17, 5:48 PM
    • 116 Posts
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    konn1ch1ha
    most TVL prosecutions are based on confession evidence, and there is evidence of a certain amount of foul-play in that respect from BBC-TVL from time to time.
    Originally posted by Cornucopia
    What do you mean by this?
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 14th Jun 17, 6:55 PM
    • 9,263 Posts
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    Cornucopia
    What do you mean by this?
    Originally posted by konn1ch1ha
    Most BBC-TVL prosecutions are based on a statement written by TVL and signed by the defendant indicating that they confess to the offence. That's why they do not need to be caught red-handed with the remote.

    However, historically there have been a small number of incidents where BBC-TVL field staff have misled or deceived defendants about the confession process (making it sound like something else) and about the nature of the offence (making defendants believe that they have committed an offence when they haven't).

    In a few very extreme cases, BBC-TVL staff have themselves been prosecuted for offences like False Accounting for doing this (they do it for the commission they receive).

    Even in a "normal" BBC-TVL interview under caution, there are questions about whether the policies they operate to are as legally-compliant as they should be. For example, they do not advise interviewees that they have the right to a solicitor, but they probably should do (based on Home Office guidance).

    These days, though, if you signed nothing then it is extremely unlikely that you will be prosecuted. That's why you were asked that question.
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 14-06-2017 at 6:58 PM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

    Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • Bigphil1474
    • By Bigphil1474 16th Jun 17, 12:22 PM
    • 696 Posts
    • 291 Thanks
    Bigphil1474
    konn - on one hand I'm hoping they'll pursue you for non paying of license fee as you have admitted you should have one i.e. "(of course, I've watched TV for the General Election, Question Time and the like)". On the other, I don't like how TVL enforcement operate. You need to decide whether you need a license or not - if you don't, like it or not, you need to think how you could beat them off your back, otherwise they'll keeping nagging away.
    • konn1ch1ha
    • By konn1ch1ha 16th Jun 17, 1:22 PM
    • 116 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    konn1ch1ha
    konn - on one hand I'm hoping they'll pursue you for non paying of license fee as you have admitted you should have one i.e. "(of course, I've watched TV for the General Election, Question Time and the like)". On the other, I don't like how TVL enforcement operate. You need to decide whether you need a license or not - if you don't, like it or not, you need to think how you could beat them off your back, otherwise they'll keeping nagging away.
    Originally posted by Bigphil1474
    Why don't you like how they operate?

    I don't need a license because I don't, and haven't, further watched live TV. As stated, I mainly used it for Netflix and DVDs.
    • almillar
    • By almillar 19th Jun 17, 1:18 PM
    • 7,062 Posts
    • 2,820 Thanks
    almillar
    of course, I've watched TV for the General Election, Question Time and the like
    How did you manage this, without live TV, recording it, or watching it on iPlayer, all of which require a License nowadays?
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 19th Jun 17, 7:17 PM
    • 9,263 Posts
    • 8,764 Thanks
    Cornucopia
    How did you manage this, without live TV, recording it, or watching it on iPlayer, all of which require a License nowadays?
    Originally posted by almillar
    There are some loopholes (lacunae) even with the new laws. You can take your device to a Licensed location to download programs, for example and then watch them anywhere.

    Personally, I think that the Government missed an important quid pro quo when the law was changed, which would have been to exclude news channels from the Licence entirely, so that anyone outside the licensed regime could retain access to news and current affairs info.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

    Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • GingerFurball
    • By GingerFurball 8th Jul 17, 11:25 PM
    • 937 Posts
    • 885 Thanks
    GingerFurball
    They're a shower of arseholes.

    I haven't even moved into my new house, having spent the last 2 weeks decorating and tidying up the mess left by the previous owner and I've already got a 'this address isn't licensed, we'll be starting an investigation soon' letter through the door.
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    • A.Penny.Saved
    • By A.Penny.Saved 10th Jul 17, 12:11 AM
    • 1,603 Posts
    • 845 Thanks
    A.Penny.Saved
    I cancelled my TV license a few months ago, first stopped the DD and then received a notice about setting up a new DD. I contacted TVL on their website saying that I do not watch any broadcast TV or use the BBC iplayer or similar. I do have a TV aerial visible and satellite dish, neither of which I use and all Aerial/Satellite leads have been disconnected, Freeview box is off with no TV aerial connection. I have also removed my PC satellite card.

    I have recorded a small number of TV programs prior to cancelling my TV license which I have still not got around to watching, including the Top Gear series with the new presenters, that actor who played Joey and that ginger bloke who quit. I have not watched any of them. Doctor Who which I watched the first episode and did not want to watch any more of them. Red Dwarf on Dave which I have still not watched. I never put on TV news and had not watch Match of the Day in a very long time. I have always found soaps to be mind numbing. I have supported the BBC with a TV license for over 11 years while living here but will no longer unless I find any inclination to actually watch TV.

    In the last few years I have barely put the TV on for anything but DVD and could no longer justify paying out for something that I do not use.

    After contacting them about this they said everything was okay and I have not received any further letters from TVL.

    I think many fail to declare that they no longer require a TV license and therefore get chased for paying for one. There was a website with someone who documented all the letters he had received from TVL and I bet that he did not declare that he did not watch TV and did not require a TVL.
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 10th Jul 17, 8:45 AM
    • 9,263 Posts
    • 8,764 Thanks
    Cornucopia
    I think many fail to declare that they no longer require a TV license and therefore get chased for paying for one. There was a website with someone who documented all the letters he had received from TVL and I bet that he did not declare that he did not watch TV and did not require a TVL.
    Originally posted by A.Penny.Saved
    Superficially, it may seem like BBC/TVL/Capita have a legitimate process with some kind of legal backing and that certain people are just "being difficult" and "bringing it all upon themselves" by defying them, but none of that is actually true. Indeed no rational public body would respond in the way that BBC/TVL does even when faced with such "provocation".

    In reality, BBC/TVL have no relevant legal authority for what they do with letters and doorstepping, and there is even legal provision against Public Authorities seeking entry to homes unless it is legally authorised and clearly justified (which this is not). If people are defying BBC/TVL then they are doing so within the law, and BBC/TVL need to respect that. There are also some wider questions of BBC/TVL's non-compliance with other aspects of the law such as PACE and the Data Protection Act.

    Against that background (and this is neither MSE policy nor something I say lightly) I regard it as a social obligation not to concede to TVL's demands where they have no legal backing and indeed to stand up to the pseudo-organisation as best one can as an individual and collectively.

    Ultimately, I think the country will dispense with the TV Licence. Its enforcement since 1991 (when the BBC took over) will be seen in hindsight as the greatest "official" hoax ever perpetrated upon the British Public.

    Hopefully, at the same time, we will see sense more generally, and understand that no private commercial interest is capable of running law enforcement with the necessary degree of fairness, public interest and proportionality and that any potential cost savings are illusory, being swallowed up if/when a suitable regulatory regime is in place around the commercial operation.
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 10-07-2017 at 9:18 AM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

    Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • phillw
    • By phillw 10th Jul 17, 8:55 PM
    • 843 Posts
    • 460 Thanks
    phillw
    I filled out the form on their web site and sent it to them and apart from them writing to confirm that the situation hadn't changed, I didn't receive anything from them.

    But they were perfectly welcome to come round whenever they wanted. My TV had no aerial connected and didn't have any channels tuned in & my VCR can only record analogue signals (that no longer exist).

    I got a license now because I still wanted to use iPlayer & going somewhere with a license to download a programme to watch at home is just too much of a pain.

    What the BBC should do is jack the price up to pay for encryption that the free loaders can't get round & bring in all the other TV companies too by giving them a share.
    Last edited by phillw; 10-07-2017 at 8:58 PM.
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