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  • FIRST POST
    • JustAnotherSaver
    • By JustAnotherSaver 22nd May 15, 6:50 PM
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    JustAnotherSaver
    TV licence people wanting to open a 'full investigation'.
    • #1
    • 22nd May 15, 6:50 PM
    TV licence people wanting to open a 'full investigation'. 22nd May 15 at 6:50 PM
    I've made a thread previously on this but today a different kind of letter has come through the door so i'm asking again.

    When we bought the house we got letters through from the TV licensing people & i got back in touch twice to say we didn't need a licence (we had no TV).

    I say again: I told them TWICE.

    They still kept on sending letters saying we needed a licence & they were all addressed to "The Occupier". So i just binned them.

    I know some of you go down the easy life route but i go down the how many times do i have to tell you before it sinks in route & the once is good enough route

    This has been going on for over 12 months i think now. Talk of court action & then the cycle goes again.

    But today a letter came through with a specific date on it. I don't know if it's a new way of them doing things but it said if i don't get a licence by this date then for now they're not sending anyone out & our situation is "on hold" but after this date they will carry out a "full investigation" of our house.

    We've since moved in & we have a TV although we only use it for DVDs & the only TV watching we do is on BBC iPlayer & the like. Nothing live.

    Still addressed to "The Occupier".

    What is this "full investigation" & do they have any right to enter the house?



    Just to save people any time - don't bother saying "just call them & explain" or "just go online & tell them again" etc. I shouldn't have to. They've been told twice already. I don't need to keep getting in touch with them once a month to remind them. I'll update them if the situation ever changes.

Page 4
    • dacouch
    • By dacouch 26th Feb 17, 10:45 PM
    • 20,228 Posts
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    dacouch
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4262202/BBC-s-TV-licence-bullies-exposed.html
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 26th Feb 17, 11:22 PM
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    Cornucopia
    I have that warm glow that you only get when all the things you've been saying are suddenly proven by the weasel-words of the miscreant boss himself.

    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

    Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • Annabee
    • By Annabee 27th Feb 17, 2:56 AM
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    Annabee
    Wow that guy is unbelievable. He doesn't seem to grasp that many people nowadays, particularly young ones, are just not watching live TV

    And he seems to think owning a TV means a person must necessarily watch live TV. Many people now own one to watch DVDs, and stream services like NetFlix, and maybe to play games. His thinking is 20 years out-of-date. Arrogant fool, let's hope he gets sacked. Why don't Channel 4 (for example) make an expose programme about this? The BBC aren't going to, obviously!
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 27th Feb 17, 8:41 AM
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    Cornucopia
    The relationship between the BBC and other mainstream media is complicated, and given the complexity of the TV Licensing debacle, it has taken this long (since 1991, in fact) to really get in to the issue.

    Even then, it remains to be seen where the Mail and the BBC will go with this. Will it be a flash-in-the-pan, "let's sack one bad manager" response, or will it go further and examine the underlying truth that the TV Licensing system is out of date, and is not capable of being enforced within the law as it presently stands without spending much more LF-payers money on it.

    Hopefully, the Government will get hold of it, and we will see BBC subscription (possibly backed by some kind of compromise/interim Licensing arrangement) soon.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

    Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • poppasmurf_bewdley
    • By poppasmurf_bewdley 27th Feb 17, 9:27 AM
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    poppasmurf_bewdley
    The relationship between the BBC and other mainstream media is complicated, and given the complexity of the TV Licensing debacle, it has taken this long (since 1991, in fact) to really get in to the issue.

    Even then, it remains to be seen where the Mail and the BBC will go with this. Will it be a flash-in-the-pan, "let's sack one bad manager" response, or will it go further and examine the underlying truth that the TV Licensing system is out of date, and is not capable of being enforced within the law as it presently stands without spending much more LF-payers money on it.

    Hopefully, the Government will get hold of it, and we will see BBC subscription (possibly backed by some kind of compromise/interim Licensing arrangement) soon.
    Originally posted by Cornucopia
    I hope this never comes to happen as I think the Licence Fee is still the best way to fund the BBC. However, should such a thing come to pass, then hopefully it will be on the Sky Model with encryption on all BBC output including iPlayer AND every outlet that shows BBC programmes.
    "Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery." Mr Wilkins Micawber in David Copperfield by Charles Dickens.
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 27th Feb 17, 10:19 AM
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    Cornucopia
    I hope this never comes to happen as I think the Licence Fee is still the best way to fund the BBC.
    Originally posted by poppasmurf_bewdley
    I just don't see how it can be made to work fairly, effectively and with 100% legal compliance (by TVL). The Daily Mail investigation only scratches the surface - for example no mention was made of the threatening letters, but there are plenty of issues there, too.

    However, should such a thing come to pass, then hopefully it will be on the Sky Model with encryption on all BBC output including iPlayer AND every outlet that shows BBC programmes.
    Yes, that's how I see it working. Perhaps, like Sky/Now TV, there would be a cheaper option for iPlayer only?
    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

    Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • poppasmurf_bewdley
    • By poppasmurf_bewdley 27th Feb 17, 10:29 AM
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    poppasmurf_bewdley

    Yes, that's how I see it working. Perhaps, like Sky/Now TV, there would be a cheaper option for iPlayer only?
    Originally posted by Cornucopia
    That would be where you start hitting problems.

    Why should it be cheaper to watch iplayer than live TV? iPlayer has most, if not all, BBC programmes so why should it be cheaper to access them via that particular media?

    You could even argue it should be more expensive to watch iPlayer than live TV as iPlayer requires massive storage capacity and technology whilst live TV is broadcast and then is over and done with.
    "Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery." Mr Wilkins Micawber in David Copperfield by Charles Dickens.
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 27th Feb 17, 10:33 AM
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    Cornucopia
    That would be where you start hitting problems.

    Why should it be cheaper to watch iplayer than live TV? iPlayer has most, if not all, BBC programmes so why should it be cheaper to access them via that particular media?

    You could even argue it should be more expensive to watch iPlayer than live TV as iPlayer requires massive storage capacity and technology whilst live TV is broadcast and then is over and done with.
    Originally posted by poppasmurf_bewdley
    The main reason would be to follow the prevailing wisdom of the commercial market - NowTV, Netflix and Amazon are all less than the Licence Fee. The Now TV entertainment pass (£6.99pm) is significantly cheaper than a basic Sky subscription, and has the advantage of not being tied in to a contract.

    The issue for me is the urgent replacement of TV Licensing now that my fears and suspicions going back over several years have been confirmed by undercover footage. Ideally, the hated and dysfunctional system would be replaced by something more rational, fit for purpose and with the support of the Public.

    The exact format of that is up for debate.
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 27-02-2017 at 10:37 AM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

    Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • Oldfatgrumpy
    • By Oldfatgrumpy 27th Feb 17, 10:41 AM
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    Oldfatgrumpy
    Good to see this has finally officially become a scandal, remarkably nobody at the BBC knew about any of this, which has been an internet sensation for years, until the DM's sting- yeah, right!
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 27th Feb 17, 10:44 AM
    • 9,271 Posts
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    Cornucopia
    Good to see this has finally officially become a scandal, remarkably nobody at the BBC knew about any of this, which has been an internet sensation for years, until the DM's sting- yeah, right!
    Originally posted by Oldfatgrumpy
    I can tell you that the BBC, BBC Trust and Perry Review were all fully aware of these and other issues with TV Licensing...

    ... because I have been involved in telling them.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

    Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • poppasmurf_bewdley
    • By poppasmurf_bewdley 27th Feb 17, 12:58 PM
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    poppasmurf_bewdley
    The main reason would be to follow the prevailing wisdom of the commercial market - NowTV, Netflix and Amazon are all less than the Licence Fee. The Now TV entertainment pass (£6.99pm) is significantly cheaper than a basic Sky subscription, and has the advantage of not being tied in to a contract.

    The issue for me is the urgent replacement of TV Licensing now that my fears and suspicions going back over several years have been confirmed by undercover footage. Ideally, the hated and dysfunctional system would be replaced by something more rational, fit for purpose and with the support of the Public.

    The exact format of that is up for debate.
    Originally posted by Cornucopia
    But your problem is that the majority of the British Public are content that the licence fee continues in it's present form. I for one know of nobody who considers the licence fee a "hated and dysfunctional system (that) would be replaced by something more rational, fit for purpose". Most people I know pay the licence fee monthly and believe that £12 per month represents excellent value for money.

    Most of the opposition to the licence fee comes from forums like this, along with a few MP's who are looking to boost their names in the eyes of the public.

    I'm not saying everything about the licence fee is perfect. It does need some minor adjustments, but not abolition.
    "Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery." Mr Wilkins Micawber in David Copperfield by Charles Dickens.
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 27th Feb 17, 2:56 PM
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    Cornucopia
    But your problem is that the majority of the British Public are content that the licence fee continues in it's present form.
    Originally posted by poppasmurf_bewdley
    That wasn't my point, but I don't think it's accurate, anyway. Pretty much every survey of public opinion on the TV Licence rates the current system poorly (typically in the 25-35% range). Whilst there may be no clear favoured alternative, I think that to call the present system "popular" would not be correct.

    Personally, I see little practical difference between a £12pm Licence Fee and a £12 Subscription, especially when coupled with a new regulatory regime in which the BBC is held accountable to its broadcast licences (rather than being accountable to no one as has historically been the case).

    I for one know of nobody who considers the licence fee a "hated and dysfunctional system (that) would be replaced by something more rational, fit for purpose". Most people I know pay the licence fee monthly and believe that £12 per month represents excellent value for money.
    I used the term more about TV Licensing (TVL) the pseudo-organisation than about the overall TV Licence. I think most people who have an opinion about TVL will have had an unsatisfactory experience in some way, or will regard it with general fear and suspicion. (I certainly had that view before I became legally Licence-free).

    Most of the opposition to the licence fee comes from forums like this, along with a few MP's who are looking to boost their names in the eyes of the public.

    I'm not saying everything about the licence fee is perfect. It does need some minor adjustments, but not abolition.
    As I said previously, I am doubtful about whether the (now public) issues with TV Licensing (the pseudo-organisation) can be resolved without making the enforcement process less effective and more expensive.

    There are probably now 2-3 million people who are at the "business end" of TVL's operations, and whilst that is still a minority of people, I think our society becomes less healthy when minorities are subject to unfair or unlawful treatment at the hands of public organisations. The same is true of other bad outsourcing arrangements like Concentrix and ATOS.
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 27-02-2017 at 3:06 PM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

    Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • silverwhistle
    • By silverwhistle 27th Feb 17, 8:30 PM
    • 1,603 Posts
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    silverwhistle
    I thought this subject might be having an airing here after just seeing this article in The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/feb/27/bbc-investigation-tv-licence-enforcement-outsourcing-firm-capita

    Incidentally, I had a new version of their letter last week with a stiff envelope with an extra open window saying 'will you be in on the nth of March', or words to that effect (I'm not going downstairs to my firelighting bin..). Out of curiosity I did look inside, and it had a slightly different wording and said 'nth of March or any other day', doh. As if anybody with any intelligence would take them at their word.
    • boliston
    • By boliston 27th Feb 17, 8:51 PM
    • 2,402 Posts
    • 1,981 Thanks
    boliston
    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/feb/27/bbc-investigation-tv-licence-enforcement-outsourcing-firm-capita

    (missing colon in link)
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 27th Feb 17, 10:30 PM
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    Cornucopia
    I've just been on TalkRadio to talk about this.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

    Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • Frugalsod
    • By Frugalsod 21st Mar 17, 12:00 PM
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    Frugalsod
    But your problem is that the majority of the British Public are content that the licence fee continues in it's present form. I for one know of nobody who considers the licence fee a "hated and dysfunctional system (that) would be replaced by something more rational, fit for purpose". Most people I know pay the licence fee monthly and believe that £12 per month represents excellent value for money.

    Most of the opposition to the licence fee comes from forums like this, along with a few MP's who are looking to boost their names in the eyes of the public.

    I'm not saying everything about the licence fee is perfect. It does need some minor adjustments, but not abolition.
    Originally posted by poppasmurf_bewdley
    Personally I would prefer to see it merged into general taxation. Though there will be claims that it will lose its independence, but that was never really true anyway when governments threatened to slash the licence fee as revenge for reporting governmental abuses. It is also very regressive hitting single mothers very hard, who make up a large slice of those in-prisoned for non payment.

    The Daily Mail are particularly interested in this to reduce competition for their TV arm and to help slash the BBC websites which are serious competition to their websites and publications. If the BBC were to close its websites then the Daily Mail would rush to put its site behind a paywall. It is all about eliminating the competition.
    It's really easy to default to cynicism these days, since you are almost always certain to be right.
    • cashbackproblems
    • By cashbackproblems 7th Apr 17, 10:52 AM
    • 1,704 Posts
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    cashbackproblems
    Live in a block of flats never had a TV licence I don't watch BBC but do have a TV. The fee should only be for BBC imo and restrict BBC tv access.


    Ignore any letter simple as.
    • Kernel Sanders
    • By Kernel Sanders 20th Apr 17, 12:04 AM
    • 3,124 Posts
    • 1,287 Thanks
    Kernel Sanders
    We had that for many years in this country, until about 1970 I think.

    Again, from memory, I think it was seven shillings and sixpence (37.5p) a year. I don't know anyone who ever bought one - I never did, but at the time the TV licence was £4, which included £1 duty (tax)!
    Originally posted by poppasmurf_bewdley
    Are you sure you're not confusing this with the Dog Licence, which I think was also 37½p for decades until its abolition in 1987.
    #JeSuisCharlie
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 20th Apr 17, 7:16 AM
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    unforeseen
    The radio licence was 1 guinea (£1 5s) and was withdrawn as a separate licence in Feb 71
    • poppasmurf_bewdley
    • By poppasmurf_bewdley 20th Apr 17, 9:07 AM
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    poppasmurf_bewdley
    Are you sure you're not confusing this with the Dog Licence, which I think was also 37½p for decades until its abolition in 1987.
    Originally posted by Kernel Sanders
    OOpps. I did get this wrong, didn't I!

    http://www.radiolicence.org.uk/costlicence.html
    "Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery." Mr Wilkins Micawber in David Copperfield by Charles Dickens.
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