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  • FIRST POST
    • kittie
    • By kittie 27th Feb 15, 5:29 AM
    • 11,310Posts
    • 64,072Thanks
    kittie
    A support thread for the bereaved
    • #1
    • 27th Feb 15, 5:29 AM
    A support thread for the bereaved 27th Feb 15 at 5:29 AM
    I started the thread when I was very suddenly widowed, early 2015. Since then in 20 months I have lost another two much loved family members, so I have been through the mill, everything looked so very bleak at the start of my journey

    Please use the thread if you need help in coping with a close bereavement. That is exactly why the thread was started
    Last edited by kittie; 08-05-2017 at 7:06 AM.
Page 154
    • elona
    • By elona 19th Apr 17, 10:12 AM
    • 11,250 Posts
    • 59,967 Thanks
    elona
    mumps

    I just got back from holiday and saw your news. Even if it is not a less aggressive type there is a really good chance that it has been caught in time. Hope you get more information soon and have a plan put in place.

    Hoping you only have a faint scar that can be camoflaged with make up and that fades.

    A few days in good weather with the family has done me good and perked me up. DDs are worried that I am slow to keep up with them and nagging me to see a doctor again but I would much rather try to lose some weight, eat healthier and try to increase the distance I walk gradually. I would feel silly to go to a gp just because my knees are stiff and sore sometimes and I can't hurry.
    "This site is addictive!"
    Wooligan 2 squares for smoky - 3 squares for HTA
    Preemie hats - 2.
    • mumps
    • By mumps 19th Apr 17, 11:51 AM
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    • 12,722 Thanks
    mumps
    Thanks for the positive vibes, they are working and I am feeling much better today. I think I felt down yesterday as the family had been visiting for Easter and the house seemed so empty. Pulled myself together today and am going to have an early lunch and then go out to nearest city to do a bit of browsing and may stop somewhere nice on the way back for a cream tea, I am telling myself the calories will be good for me but I don't quite believe myself. I'll still enjoy the scones, jam and cream.

    Elona I am a slow walker and always have been. Maybe you are the same? If not then losing a bit of weight is probably going to do you good, knees take alot of punishment.
    Sell 1500

    2831.00/1500
    • elona
    • By elona 20th Apr 17, 10:12 AM
    • 11,250 Posts
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    elona
    mumps

    Have you had any more news yet? Fingers and toes crossed for you.

    Now I am back home I have looked out the supplements for joints, vitamin D3 and turmeric capsules and have started to take them again as they did help with pain and stiffness. A set of bathroom scales is on the way and I am going to start wearing a pedometer and try to increase my steps as well as try to eat healthier.

    Hugs to all.
    "This site is addictive!"
    Wooligan 2 squares for smoky - 3 squares for HTA
    Preemie hats - 2.
    • margaretclare
    • By margaretclare 20th Apr 17, 10:43 AM
    • 10,264 Posts
    • 17,055 Thanks
    margaretclare
    Thanks for the positive vibes, they are working and I am feeling much better today. I think I felt down yesterday as the family had been visiting for Easter and the house seemed so empty. Pulled myself together today and am going to have an early lunch and then go out to nearest city to do a bit of browsing and may stop somewhere nice on the way back for a cream tea, I am telling myself the calories will be good for me but I don't quite believe myself. I'll still enjoy the scones, jam and cream.

    Elona I am a slow walker and always have been. Maybe you are the same? If not then losing a bit of weight is probably going to do you good, knees take alot of punishment.
    Originally posted by mumps
    Mumps, I haven't said, but I'm really sorry about your news and I do hope you get some better information soon. I will pray for you. Church on Sunday was absolutely jam-packed and there had already been a 'dawn' service (Mary going to the tomb and finding it empty) so, what you hear about people not going to church any more isn't necessarily true.

    DH is still improving, leg muscles getting stronger. District nurse still visits 2 x week but soon won't need to, because the leg wound/s are healing up visibly every time they're re-dressed.
    r ic wisdom funde, r wear ic eald.
    Before I found wisdom, I became old.
    • mumps
    • By mumps 20th Apr 17, 8:23 PM
    • 6,092 Posts
    • 12,722 Thanks
    mumps
    Not had any more information yet. I am experimenting with make up, bought a concealer pen so I am going to be armed and ready!

    Hope they work for you Elona and glad to hear your good news Margaretclare.
    Sell 1500

    2831.00/1500
    • itsanne
    • By itsanne 21st Apr 17, 4:20 PM
    • 4,505 Posts
    • 10,405 Thanks
    itsanne
    Just seen your news, mumps. I hope all goes well and you don't have to wait much longer to be seen to. Two other suggestions re scarring are lavender oil and Palmers Scar Serum. OH used lavender oil after his knee replacement once the would had started to heal over. It kept the skin supple and the scar healed surprisingly quickly. Son had a bad burn on his abdomen as a teenager, bad enough that grafting was considered and I fully expected that he would be left with permanent scarring. Once it had begun to heal I plastered him with the scar serum - there's not a mark to be seen now. Obviously in both cases the result may have been a coincidence, but I'd certainly try them again if the need arose. (The reason for the lavender oil rather than scar serum fo OH was that it could be used sooner.)


    I'm glad things are going well after your husband's op, margaretclare.


    Elona, how are you now after your lung problems?
    . . .I did not speak out

    Then they came for me
    And there was no one left
    To speak out for me..

    Martin Niemoller
    • elona
    • By elona 21st Apr 17, 8:09 PM
    • 11,250 Posts
    • 59,967 Thanks
    elona
    Itsanne

    I am waiting to have a review in June and hoping the plane trips this week have not set off a repeat. Scared that I am still getting easily out of breath but probably just anxiety.

    DD and SIL have come over for a bite to eat tonight and am planning a meal on Sunday for lunch for four of us, maybe a beef and ale pie with lots of veg on the side as I have a good low calorie recipe they love.
    "This site is addictive!"
    Wooligan 2 squares for smoky - 3 squares for HTA
    Preemie hats - 2.
    • mumps
    • By mumps 21st Apr 17, 10:50 PM
    • 6,092 Posts
    • 12,722 Thanks
    mumps
    Just seen your news, mumps. I hope all goes well and you don't have to wait much longer to be seen to. Two other suggestions re scarring are lavender oil and Palmers Scar Serum. OH used lavender oil after his knee replacement once the would had started to heal over. It kept the skin supple and the scar healed surprisingly quickly. Son had a bad burn on his abdomen as a teenager, bad enough that grafting was considered and I fully expected that he would be left with permanent scarring. Once it had begun to heal I plastered him with the scar serum - there's not a mark to be seen now. Obviously in both cases the result may have been a coincidence, but I'd certainly try them again if the need arose. (The reason for the lavender oil rather than scar serum fo OH was that it could be used sooner.)


    I'm glad things are going well after your husband's op, margaretclare.


    Elona, how are you now after your lung problems?
    Originally posted by itsanne
    Thank you for that, I love the smell of lavender so I will definitely get some of that. I've never heard of scar serum, I will have a look at that as well.
    Sell 1500

    2831.00/1500
    • JuneBow
    • By JuneBow 22nd Apr 17, 10:34 AM
    • 251 Posts
    • 200 Thanks
    JuneBow
    Mumps, I am really sorry to hear your news. A friend of mine had some skin cancer removed from her face, and the scar is barely visible. She doesn't use much make up at all.
    I know you and LL have not always seen eye to eye, but she has posted a very useful and supportive comment to you, and has invited you to ask questions.
    I know you said that you had blocked her, and you may not have seen it, but given the hand of friendship that has been offered, it seems churlish not to accept it, or acknowledge it.
    Once again, sorry for your troubles.
    • lessonlearned
    • By lessonlearned 22nd Apr 17, 12:58 PM
    • 10,161 Posts
    • 57,154 Thanks
    lessonlearned
    One small step
    Well last night I metaphorically climbed Mount Everest.

    I managed to watch the History of Everything. It was released a couple of months after my husbands death and I just couldn't bring myself to watch it.

    As you will all know Stephen Hawkins suffers from Motor Neurone Disease.

    My husband died from Multiple System Atrophy with a Cerebellar Ataxia presentation. MSA-CA. There is also a MSA-MND variant.

    The symptoms, effects and progress of the two conditions are to all intents and purposes identical which is why I was so wary of watching the film.

    Actually I'm glad I eventually plucked up the courage .......It was hard going For me but I feel that I have now finally laid that particular ghost to rest. It had to be done so I could move forward.

    I still have a few metaphorical dragons left to slay.........still can't look at any photos.

    Perhaps one day.

    I have a friend coming to stay for a few days next week which will be nice. Hoping To go to Chatsworth - the Peak District is beautiful in the spring so hoping for a bit of sunshine.

    Elona - glad to hear you enjoyed your holiday. Hope your health check up goes well.

    I have spent a small fortune at the dentists this month. Also had my yearly eye test, luckily no change in my prescription. Blood sugars are behaving and adrenal glands are finally improving. Don't feel quite so drained.

    June.....thanks for the vote of confidence.

    I don't believe I have ever mentioned it on here but I am actually a fully trained and licensed beauty therapist with a special interest in skin health and natural skincare.

    I don't believe in using any chemicals on the skin or invasive treatments such as gel nails etc. I no longer have my business but I do still make lotions and potions for myself, friends and family and am still constantly researching and learning.

    Again if I can offer some consolation...... skin cancers found on the face are not usually melanomas (although of course there is always the. Exception to the rule).

    However, Something like 99 per cent of facial cancers will be either a basal cell carcinoma or a squamous cell carcinoma, neither of which will enter the bloodstream or send spores to other organs and prove fatal. However all skin cancers, even the non malignant ones, do still need to be dealt with because left untreated they will spread and do damage.

    Ok here's a bit of a timely reminder for all of us as summer approaches.

    Melanomas in women are usually found on either the arms or legs. Melanomas in men are usually found on the back or the legs (which is now why builders on commercial sites are no longer allowed to wear shorts or go topless).

    Whether we sunbathe or not we are still at risk of skin cancers because it is the UV rays which do the damage and yes redheads and those with fair skin are especially at risk. However this doesn't let those with darker skins off the hook. I have known those of Caribbean descent fall victim to skin cancer because they thought they would be ok with our "weak" UK sun.

    UV rays can be fierce even on a cloudy day - especially in Cornwall and also near water. May is the most risky month because that is when UV rays are at that their shortest. Autumn sunlight not only feels more gentle - it is also less dangerous because the UV rays are longer.

    Always remember the golden rule and monitir your moles. Learn your ABCDE of Mole watching. If you all look it up and look at the photos that accompany the explanation you will get a better understanding of what to look out for.

    Always remember that The skin is the single largest organ in the human body and should be treated with care and respect. Treat it gently.

    If you remember your school biology lessons you will know all about capillary action - how stuff applied to the surface of the skin can enter the bloodstream and travel to the essential organs. This is why I am wary of the use of nanotechnology in anti aging creams and serums. We just don't know the. Effect of the long term build up of the chemicals used and why I do not advocate using any personal products which contain harmful chemicals. So do check the ingredients of those beauty products. At the very least try to avoid sodium laurel sulphate.

    Ps phew - didn't mean to write an essay or lecture you all......but as I said skin care is my speciality.
    Last edited by lessonlearned; 22-04-2017 at 1:10 PM.
    • lessonlearned
    • By lessonlearned 22nd Apr 17, 2:10 PM
    • 10,161 Posts
    • 57,154 Thanks
    lessonlearned
    PPS. Never use neat aromatherapy oils directly on to the skin.

    They must be diluted with a carrier oil.
    Last edited by lessonlearned; 22-04-2017 at 2:46 PM.
    • Gers
    • By Gers 23rd Apr 17, 11:45 AM
    • 5,918 Posts
    • 35,060 Thanks
    Gers
    This is the final column from 'Widower of the parish'

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/apr/22/how-to-survive-the-death-of-a-loved-one
    • mumps
    • By mumps 23rd Apr 17, 1:06 PM
    • 6,092 Posts
    • 12,722 Thanks
    mumps
    Mumps, I am really sorry to hear your news. A friend of mine had some skin cancer removed from her face, and the scar is barely visible. She doesn't use much make up at all.
    I know you and LL have not always seen eye to eye, but she has posted a very useful and supportive comment to you, and has invited you to ask questions.
    I know you said that you had blocked her, and you may not have seen it, but given the hand of friendship that has been offered, it seems churlish not to accept it, or acknowledge it.
    Once again, sorry for your troubles.
    Originally posted by JuneBow
    I am watching it at the moment, they are hoping it isn't a melanoma but it is 50/50. If it suddenly changes I will be rushed up the list otherwise I have a couple of weeks to wait.

    I don't know what LL has posted and I don't want to get into the past problems, suffice to say I have been subject to unpleasant attacks from two people and put both on ignore so I have no idea what they post. To be honest with you I am too fragile at the moment to risk doing anything else. You have to understand that I was feeling fragile due to other reasons at the time of the unpleasantness so I can't just assume it would be different now. If people want to be supportive then that is great but you have to understand that I must protect myself at the moment. If I have got a melanoma then the removal is going to be quite disfiguring due to where it is and of course it is also going to be a risk in terms of spreading. It is very close to my eye which presents a whole other set of risks.

    Sorry if that seems selfish, just at the moment selfish is what I need to be. I am hoping for a result like your friend and as the lesion hasn't significantly changed in the last week I am feeling more hopeful, the doctor is unsure why it changed so suddenly a couple of weeks ago, it might be that a small scratch became infected or something more sinister.
    Sell 1500

    2831.00/1500
    • lessonlearned
    • By lessonlearned 23rd Apr 17, 1:56 PM
    • 10,161 Posts
    • 57,154 Thanks
    lessonlearned
    Ah well you can take a horse to water.........

    So Sad really.

    Bearing a grudge is not only pointless but it is Also detrimental to our health and well being. It eats away at the soul.

    Anyway........enough. I offered an olive branch.......I can do no more.

    I posted what I know not only to try and reassure Mumps but also anyone who may have concerns about unexplained lumps, bumps or lesions that won't heal.

    A little extra knowledge never hurts.

    Yesterday I joined up to "jolly dollies" So a big thanks to whoever Posted the link. Sorry I can't remember who it was but it was very kind. I had never heard of them but I have decided to give it a go. Most of my girlfriends are married so I do need to meet some single women and make new friends.

    I'll let you know how I get on.......
    Last edited by lessonlearned; 23-04-2017 at 2:05 PM.
    • lessonlearned
    • By lessonlearned 23rd Apr 17, 2:01 PM
    • 10,161 Posts
    • 57,154 Thanks
    lessonlearned
    2 weeks until my holiday. Noticed it was snowing in St Petersburg yesterday.

    Oh well I'm sure I will still manage to enjoy myself.

    Managed to get tickets for Chatsworth - half price offer - wahoo.

    There is a currently a costume exhibition on so should be fun.
    • happyandcontented
    • By happyandcontented 23rd Apr 17, 2:20 PM
    • 839 Posts
    • 1,687 Thanks
    happyandcontented
    Ah well you can take a horse to water.........

    So Sad really.

    Bearing a grudge is not only pointless but it is Also detrimental to our health and well being. It eats away at the soul.

    Anyway........enough. I offered an olive branch.......I can do no more.

    I posted what I know not only to try and reassure Mumps but also anyone who may have concerns about unexplained lumps, bumps or lesions that won't heal.

    A little extra knowledge never hurts.

    Yesterday I joined up to "jolly dollies" So a big thanks to whoever Posted the link. Sorry I can't remember who it was but it was very kind. I had never heard of them but I have decided to give it a go. Most of my girlfriends are married so I do need to meet some single women and make new friends.

    I'll let you know how I get on.......
    Originally posted by lessonlearned
    I can understand why Mumps has reacted the way she has and I don't think it is about holding a grudge. The problems which arose were due to people wanting to control who and what was posted on this thread and I suppose she can't be sure that will not happen again and at the moment (and when it was going on ) she has her own serious issues to deal with and so doesn't want to take the chance of being upset again.

    The thread has now evolved into a source of support for everyone, both widows and those going through other trauma, which was seemingly not the way some people wanted it to go. Threads have a life of their own though and no one can really control that, which is as it should be imo.
    • lessonlearned
    • By lessonlearned 23rd Apr 17, 3:35 PM
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    • 57,154 Thanks
    lessonlearned
    Happy and contented.

    I genuinely don't think that anyone wanted to "control" the thread in the way you are suggesting. I for one certainly didn't and I don't think that It is a fair criticism of Kitty either.

    My main concern, and I think this also applies to Kitty, is that we felt that a newly bereaved widow or widower is especially vulnerable and in need of a safe haven. Somewhere for them to speak freely and not get sidetracked by other issues.

    This is not to say that others suffering from sadness or trauma should be excluded or were unwelcome but that perhaps it might have been better if some issues such as hospitalisations or health issues might have been better supported by a separate thread so as not to overwhelm or deflect attention away from someone who is dealing with the death of a loved one and who has turned to this thread for advice and support because they had no one in RL to turn to.

    Why such a suggestion should have set off a witch hunt against Kitty and myself is beyond my understanding. And why, months later, it is still being dragged up beggars belief.

    My reply to Mumps concerns about her cancer were based on my knowledge acquired through my professional training and years of experience and research. Choosing to ignore shared knowledge from someone (me) who is not just a retired professional in the field of skincare but who has also gone through the same experience of having had facial skin cancer purely because you are upset at them certainly would appear to have all the hallmarks of bearing a grudge........

    I agree with you, many threads do meander and evolve to cover wider topics and that is not necessarily a bad thing. However, I still believe this thread would be more useful to the newly bereaved if it had stuck to it's original brief.

    But hey......I'll bend with the wind.

    As a little aside I am so glad that both Prince Harry and Rio Ferdinand have gone public about their loss and continued grief.

    As has been mentioned on here, grief has no place for timescales, it takes as long as it takes. And yet society find it's difficult to accept that and the bereaved often feel that their grief is so often shoved under the carpet and they are left feeling isolated and lost.

    For example Mrs M was treated shamefully by her boss because she wasn't "getting over it" quick enough for her bosses liking. That was shocking. Mrs M was forced into giving up work and has suffered both financially and emotionally as a result. No one should be put into that position because society at large lacks the knowledge, wisdom and compassion required to help people who are dealing with bereavement.

    The bereaved should not be made to feel failures because they have not "moved on" fast enough. So I think it's good to have the effects of long term grief brought into the public arena at last.

    Well done Harry and Rio.
    • happyandcontented
    • By happyandcontented 23rd Apr 17, 4:52 PM
    • 839 Posts
    • 1,687 Thanks
    happyandcontented
    Happy and contented.

    I genuinely don't think that anyone wanted to "control" the thread in the way you are suggesting. I for one certainly didn't and I don't think that It is a fair criticism of Kitty either.

    My main concern, and I think this also applies to Kitty, is that we felt that a newly bereaved widow or widower is especially vulnerable and in need of a safe haven. Somewhere for them to speak freely and not get sidetracked by other issues.

    This is not to say that others suffering from sadness or trauma should be excluded or were unwelcome but that perhaps it might have been better if some issues such as hospitalisations or health issues might have been better supported by a separate thread so as not to overwhelm or deflect attention away from someone who is dealing with the death of a loved one and who has turned to this thread for advice and support because they had no one in RL to turn to.

    Why such a suggestion should have set off a witch hunt against Kitty and myself is beyond my understanding. And why, months later, it is still being dragged up beggars belief.

    My reply to Mumps concerns about her cancer were based on my knowledge acquired through my professional training and years of experience and research. Choosing to ignore shared knowledge from someone (me) who is not just a retired professional in the field of skincare but who has also gone through the same experience of having had facial skin cancer purely because you are upset at them certainly would appear to have all the hallmarks of bearing a grudge........

    I agree with you, many threads do meander and evolve to cover wider topics and that is not necessarily a bad thing. However, I still believe this thread would be more useful to the newly bereaved if it had stuck to it's original brief.

    But hey......I'll bend with the wind.
    Originally posted by lessonlearned
    I have removed part of the quote as I don't think anyone could find anything to disagree with there. Grief is very personal, does bear discussion and has no timescale attached to it. The more it is discussed the less taboo it becomes and the more people understand how it affects people the better.

    The first part of your response is subjective however, as an outsider looking in I certainly felt that some people posting here were treated as "interlopers" who had no place bringing their issues to a thread the OP had dedicated to those recently widowed. As laudible as the original intent might have been the execution was something less than "sensitive" to others who really wanted to empathise with the recently widowed and offer advice but who wanted also interact and receive support with their own issues. There certainly seemed to be an element of wanting to "control" the thread, which as far as I could see served no useful purpose and merely made certain posts uncomfortable viewing.

    Nor do I think there was a "witchhunt" against anyone, people just had a difference of opinion, again though, it is a matter of perception and I suppose we all have ours. As to why it is still being discussed, my guess is that the cuts went deep and as can be seen here, the issues were never really resolved because those involved did not see or acknowledge the problem, or indeed see that there was a problem. Also, it wasn't Mumps who resurrected the issue she merely reacted to a post from someone else who brought it up.

    Your advice to Mumps was lovely, but as your next sentence confirms you still believe that the thread should not have been deflected or evolved from its original format, by articulating that you could also be accused of holding a "grudge".

    I actually don't believe either of you are holding a grudge, rather, that both of you have different opinions on how a scenario panned out and why. That difference of perception is the prerogative of both of you.

    Personally, I think the thread has a wealth of lovely people widowed or not, who bring a host of useful information and advice to those who are in need. Whilst the loss of a spouse is undoubtedly a unique loss, many who have not had that awful experience still do have useful information to impart as they may have been involved in sorting out the affairs of a loved one in that position. They can also empathise and sympathise with those who are at their lowest ebb, emotions which come from a sincere place are surely welcomed from anyone regardless of their status.

    As you say, bend with the wind and the wind seems to have blown in a more inclusive direction than maybe was originally intended but that can only be a good thing as more people can find solace and help when they need it most.
    • mumps
    • By mumps 23rd Apr 17, 5:50 PM
    • 6,092 Posts
    • 12,722 Thanks
    mumps
    Thank you Happyandcontented (such a nice positive name) you sum it up well. I am not sure why I should be accused of holding a grudge, putting people who were upsetting me on ignore seemed the best way of avoiding trouble and how I am supposed to accept advice that people know I can't see seems a bit ridiculous however well meant it might be.

    I have never brought up the issues with either poster since the upsets, it has been raised by other people and I don't think it is fair to suggest I am holding a grudge because of it.

    Of course I have seen the posts you quoted and again I haven't orchestrated any witch hunt, I have avoided any contact and made no reference to the people concerned. As you say there are many many people on this thread who are lovely and I have received support and hope I have offered it in return.

    I do find this comment rude and condescending and it confirms my decision is right for me. When all is said and done I am not a horse and no one took my anywhere and I still have no idea what the post was about.
    Ah well you can take a horse to water.........
    Sell 1500

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    • lessonlearned
    • By lessonlearned 23rd Apr 17, 8:20 PM
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    lessonlearned
    Nice thoughtful and well considered post Happy and Contended.

    I may not have your positive upbeat nom de plume, mine being a bit more prosaic and which alludes to some of my shall we say less than wise financial decisions in the past. .

    Probably sacrilege to say it on a money saving website but hey......It's only money.

    However, I can assure you I most certainly don't "do" grudges. Life is just too short and too precarious to wallow in misery or self pity or keep feuds going.

    Onwards and upwards is my motto.

    However, I do feel saddened that Kitty felt compelled to leave the thread - such a shame because she was a very wise lady with a wealth of practical tips and some very sound advice. I miss her - Plain speaking and yes blunt to the point of rudeness but I found her wise, kind and well meaning,

    For my part I have offered help, advice and support to Mumps in a spirit of humanity and friendship. Her choice to continue to ignore me and "send me to Coventry" as it were.

    No matter.

    Hopefully she won't have to wait too long to get treatment and - if the statistics are true to form - she will belong to the 99 per cent for whom the outcome is positive. I certainly hope so.

    I do think her GP has done her a grave disservice by being so negative and alarmist at this stage, especially as Mumps currently has so many other problems in her life. He can't possibly know what kind of cancer it is. And even if he suspects the worst he should keep his suspicions to himself until tests have been carried out. Not very professional and totally unnecessary to cause such worry.

    Most GPS are not experts in skin problems, unless of course they choose to take a special interest. And.......it is only after surgery when cells are taken and cultures are grown that a true diagnosis is possible. So at this stage it's only guesswork. Yes maybe a very well educated guess but by no means a certainty.

    Well it's been a great drying day here. I've washed everything in sight. I love to see a line full of snowy white bed linen blowing in the wind. Such a simple pleasure but one that always makes me smile.

    The house is all scrubbed and gleaming ready for my friends arrival tomorrow so now it's feet up and a cup of tea whilst sitting on the edge of my seat watching "Line of Duty".

    It's a belter.
    Last edited by lessonlearned; 23-04-2017 at 8:49 PM.
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