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  • FIRST POST
    • OVB
    • By OVB 26th Nov 14, 4:41 PM
    • 9Posts
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    OVB
    A mortgage PPI
    • #1
    • 26th Nov 14, 4:41 PM
    A mortgage PPI 26th Nov 14 at 4:41 PM
    I made a complaint regarding a PPI for a mortgage four weeks ago. This is something I finally got round to doing after months of putting it off. I chased the broker a couple of weeks ago and he said he was still looking into it as he has to review the file and some call recordings so I just chased it again as I want this money for Christmas and he told me to expect a response within eight weeks of my complaint but in his view he said he will probably be rejecting my claim and he will fully explain why in this final letter I told him I have every right to complain and I will take it much further and mentoned the FOS but he said he is doing nothing wrong and put the phone down on me do I just go to the FOS and get them on it as he is obviously using delaying tactics
Page 1
    • lovinituk
    • By lovinituk 26th Nov 14, 4:44 PM
    • 5,371 Posts
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    lovinituk
    • #2
    • 26th Nov 14, 4:44 PM
    • #2
    • 26th Nov 14, 4:44 PM
    Why do you think it was missold? As others more qualified will say shortly, mortgage PPI is rarely missold.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 26th Nov 14, 4:58 PM
    • 89,603 Posts
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    dunstonh
    • #3
    • 26th Nov 14, 4:58 PM
    • #3
    • 26th Nov 14, 4:58 PM
    just chased it again as I want this money for Christmas
    That's not a valid reason for complaint.

    e told me to expect a response within eight weeks of my complaint but in his view he said he will probably be rejecting my claim and he will fully explain why in this final letter
    Not a surprise. Most MPPI complaints fail. Especially those arranged by adviser/brokers (PPI is not generally seen as an adviser failing but as a bank failure). The FOS reject most adviser/broker PPI complaints as well.

    I told him I have every right to complain and I will take it much further and mentoned the FOS but he said he is doing nothing wrong and put the phone down on me
    You have complained and that is your right. However, he says he is minded to reject it and will verify by letter. That is his right.

    o I just go to the FOS and get them on it as he is obviously using delaying tactics
    You cant go to the FOS until you have the outcome letter. However, nothing you have said indicates any delaying tactics.

    Perhaps if we understood your complaint reasons, we could be more helpful. So,
    1 - what are your reasons for complaint?
    2 - what evidence do you have to support that (evidence is not required with strong complaint reasons but on weak ones it can be the difference between a successful complaint or a failed one)
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • magpiecottage
    • By magpiecottage 26th Nov 14, 5:27 PM
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    magpiecottage
    • #4
    • 26th Nov 14, 5:27 PM
    • #4
    • 26th Nov 14, 5:27 PM
    I want this money for Christmas
    Originally posted by OVB
    That does make it sound like a try on.
    he told me to expect a response within eight weeks of my complaint
    In accordance with FCA Rule 1.6.2R

    in his view he said he will probably be rejecting my claim and he will fully explain why in this final letter
    Also in accordance with FCA Rule 1.6.2R

    I told him I have every right to complain
    You do indeed
    I will take it much further and mentoned the FOS
    You can do that but not until he has either responded or reached the end of eight weeks from when he received the complaint (not when you sent it).
    he said he is doing nothing wrong
    You have not told us anything that suggests he has.

    and put the phone down on me
    The aggressive tone of your post (including the emoticons) to us, who are entirely neutral, suggest that you may have been unnecessarily aggressive to the point where anybody working for me is contractually obliged to hang up on a caller.

    do I just go to the FOS and get them on it as he is obviously using delaying tactics
    Who will simply tell you that he has the balance of the eight weeks.

    If you want to do something positive, explain why you think the policy was missold - its mere existence is not valid grounds for a complaint.
    • addedvaluebob
    • By addedvaluebob 26th Nov 14, 5:47 PM
    • 460 Posts
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    addedvaluebob
    • #5
    • 26th Nov 14, 5:47 PM
    • #5
    • 26th Nov 14, 5:47 PM
    OP, I am afraid you have to wait the 8 weeks or until the letter arrives (if sooner) that rejects your complaint. Don't bother putting your reasons on here, nobody knows the full circumstances of your case better than you and this can often lead to a lot of criticism.

    If you do decide to go to FOS it will be at least one Christmas and more like two before you see anything (if indeed you win). The fact that your broker put the phone down suggests to me that even if an adjudicator rules in your favour the broker will ask for an Ombudsman ruling.

    Good luck
    • OVB
    • By OVB 26th Nov 14, 5:57 PM
    • 9 Posts
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    OVB
    • #6
    • 26th Nov 14, 5:57 PM
    • #6
    • 26th Nov 14, 5:57 PM
    That does make it sound like a try on.
    In accordance with FCA Rule 1.6.2R

    Also in accordance with FCA Rule 1.6.2R

    You do indeed You can do that but not until he has either responded or reached the end of eight weeks from when he received the complaint (not when you sent it).
    You have not told us anything that suggests he has.

    The aggressive tone of your post (including the emoticons) to us, who are entirely neutral, suggest that you may have been unnecessarily aggressive to the point where anybody working for me is contractually obliged to hang up on a caller.

    Who will simply tell you that he has the balance of the eight weeks.

    If you want to do something positive, explain why you think the policy was missold - its mere existence is not valid grounds for a complaint.
    Originally posted by magpiecottage
    He made me feel that a PPI was compulsory for me to get the mortgage and I was not given any details of the policy and feel this did not suit my circumstances. He reckons he can disprove all of this as he will have a copy of a call to me confirming that I was told all this but it was 11 years ago so I doubt it and reckon he is trying to fob me off. If he has this call why has he not sent it yet I wonder answer me that. My husband got his ppi back easy from a Lloyds card
    • Insider101
    • By Insider101 26th Nov 14, 6:02 PM
    • 961 Posts
    • 594 Thanks
    Insider101
    • #7
    • 26th Nov 14, 6:02 PM
    • #7
    • 26th Nov 14, 6:02 PM
    I made a complaint regarding a PPI for a mortgage four weeks ago. This is something I finally got round to doing after months of putting it off. I chased the broker a couple of weeks ago and he said he was still looking into it as he has to review the file and some call recordings so I just chased it again as I want this money for Christmas and he told me to expect a response within eight weeks of my complaint but in his view he said he will probably be rejecting my claim and he will fully explain why in this final letter I told him I have every right to complain and I will take it much further and mentoned the FOS but he said he is doing nothing wrong and put the phone down on me do I just go to the FOS and get them on it as he is obviously using delaying tactics
    Originally posted by OVB
    You can't go to the FOS until either you have a final decision or 8 weeks have elapsed from the date of origin complaint, whichever is the sooner. If you do then you are probably going to be waiting months or even years.
    • Insider101
    • By Insider101 26th Nov 14, 6:05 PM
    • 961 Posts
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    Insider101
    • #8
    • 26th Nov 14, 6:05 PM
    • #8
    • 26th Nov 14, 6:05 PM
    OP, I am afraid you have to wait the 8 weeks or until the letter arrives (if sooner) that rejects your complaint. Don't bother putting your reasons on here, nobody knows the full circumstances of your case better than you and this can often lead to a lot of criticism.
    Originally posted by addedvaluebob
    Defeats the whole purpose of posting on the forum. Any advice given is only going to be as good as the details it is based on.
    • Insider101
    • By Insider101 26th Nov 14, 6:11 PM
    • 961 Posts
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    Insider101
    • #9
    • 26th Nov 14, 6:11 PM
    • #9
    • 26th Nov 14, 6:11 PM
    He made me feel that a PPI was compulsory for me to get the mortgage and I was not given any details of the policy and feel this did not suit my circumstances. He reckons he can disprove all of this as he will have a copy of a call to me confirming that I was told all this but it was 11 years ago so I doubt it and reckon he is trying to fob me off. If he has this call why has he not sent it yet I wonder answer me that. My husband got his ppi back easy from a Lloyds card
    Originally posted by OVB
    Your husband's case is unfortunately neither here nor there. Credit card PPI was a more flawed product than mortgage (though not as flawed as single premium loan PPI). It is also a complaint against a large, faceless bank. I'm not sure how big your broker is, they vary from one man bands to large telephone based operations but the fact that you're actually dealing with the broker makes it sound more like the former and they tend to take complaints far more personally.

    Any paperwork or other documentary evidence he has will be sent with the FDL, they will not send it mid investigation. He may be waiting to try and retrieve the call recording from an external storage provider. I think you're just going to have to wait and see. The other possibility with it being 11 years ago (so pre-2005) is that they may just turn around and say it's pre regulation and we weren't a member of GISC hence are not obliged to consider the matter any further.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 26th Nov 14, 6:32 PM
    • 89,603 Posts
    • 56,093 Thanks
    dunstonh
    He made me feel that a PPI was compulsory for me to get the mortgage and I was not given any details of the policy and feel this did not suit my circumstances.
    Many mortgage brokers require the purchase of insurance to allow them to give free mortgage advice. That model is allowed as long as the insurance is suitable.

    Policy details are supplied in the post.

    He reckons he can disprove all of this as he will have a copy of a call to me confirming that I was told all this but it was 11 years ago so I doubt it and reckon he is trying to fob me off.
    He will almost certainly have the files. Advisers hold on to them. Which is why most advised complaints fail. However, the onus is more on your to support your allegations.

    My husband got his ppi back easy from a Lloyds card
    hardly comparing like for like. A credit card PPI sold by a bank is a million miles away from a mortgage PPI sold by a broker. Most Lloyds PPi complaints do succeed. Most MPPI broker sold complaints get rejected by the FOS. Different products covering very different needs via a different distribution channel.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • addedvaluebob
    • By addedvaluebob 26th Nov 14, 7:07 PM
    • 460 Posts
    • 104 Thanks
    addedvaluebob
    Defeats the whole purpose of posting on the forum. Any advice given is only going to be as good as the details it is based on.
    Originally posted by Insider101
    But there is rarely any useful advice just criticism of the poster and their reasons because they don't usually frame the posting or the original complaint properly because they don't really understand what they are doing/writing.

    In response to this they get 'your reasons are rubbish, most complaints will fail, that's not a reason, you are trying it on, what the broker did was legal, he did nothing wrong, you are being aggressive' - this is advice?
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 26th Nov 14, 7:39 PM
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    dunstonh
    But there is rarely any useful advice just criticism of the poster and their reasons because they don't usually frame the posting or the original complaint properly because they don't really understand what they are doing/writing.
    Which is why the responses are useful in letting the OP know the issues they face.

    In response to this they get 'your reasons are rubbish, most complaints will fail, that's not a reason, you are trying it on, what the broker did was legal, he did nothing wrong, you are being aggressive' - this is advice?
    The facts are that most MPPi complaints fail. So, it helps the OP to know why. Also whether the reasons are actually valid or not or wrong or not.

    it does not help the OP to continue focusing on a complaint reason that is not actually a valid complaint reason. Clearly in this case, the OP doesnt understand the issues and an explanation to help understand is beneficial.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • roonaldo
    • By roonaldo 26th Nov 14, 7:42 PM
    • 3,361 Posts
    • 1,597 Thanks
    roonaldo
    I want this money for Christmas
    Originally posted by OVB
    Insurance isnt refundable just because you ask, despite what you have read the bank are not giving out free money.

    and he told me to expect a response within eight weeks of my complaint but in his view he said he will probably be rejecting my claim and he will fully explain why in this final letter I told him I have every right to complain and I will take it much further
    And they have every right to reject your complaint.

    [
    and mentoned the FOS but he said he is doing nothing wrong and put the phone down on me do I just go to the FOS and get them on it as he is obviously using delaying tactics
    There is no delaying tactic, if they feel it wasnt mis-sold then they are going to reject your complaint. You need to wait to refer it to FOS then you will have a long wait and FOS are more likely than not to side with the firm.
    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 26th Nov 14, 7:46 PM
    • 4,047 Posts
    • 2,335 Thanks
    Nasqueron
    But there is rarely any useful advice just criticism of the poster and their reasons because they don't usually frame the posting or the original complaint properly because they don't really understand what they are doing/writing.

    In response to this they get 'your reasons are rubbish, most complaints will fail, that's not a reason, you are trying it on, what the broker did was legal, he did nothing wrong, you are being aggressive' - this is advice?
    Originally posted by addedvaluebob
    The original post reads completely like a try it on who has heard about PPI reclaiming and realised they paid PPI and assumes they are "entitled" to it back - "I want the money for Christmas", seriously, nothing about this post smacks of a legitimate claim.

    Then look at the second post, the broker has almost certainly sold the insurance as part of the deal (as they are allowed to do) and it was 11 years ago (so before the 2005 regulation), OP should (based on reasons given and facts stated) expect a rejection at broker and FOS.

    Complaints like this cause unnecessary stress and pain for the broker who has to defend their sale of a perfectly legitimate product designed to help someone avoid losing their home.

    I do wonder with some of the complaints on here, when someone loses a job, will the "claim no matter what" types offer to pay their mortgage as the MPPI is no longer there?
    Last edited by Nasqueron; 26-11-2014 at 7:49 PM.
    • OVB
    • By OVB 26th Nov 14, 9:05 PM
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    OVB
    Many mortgage brokers require the purchase of insurance to allow them to give free mortgage advice. That model is allowed as long as the insurance is suitable.

    Policy details are supplied in the post.



    He will almost certainly have the files. Advisers hold on to them. Which is why most advised complaints fail. However, the onus is more on your to support your allegations.



    hardly comparing like for like. A credit card PPI sold by a bank is a million miles away from a mortgage PPI sold by a broker. Most Lloyds PPi complaints do succeed. Most MPPI broker sold complaints get rejected by the FOS. Different products covering very different needs via a different distribution channel.
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    Well he rang tonight asking how I wanted this copy of the call in he reckons he has me being told it was available and my decision to take it or not and discussing the cost first how do I know it will even be me on the recording and also he sounded cocky about it he says that is all his firm had to do then I do not trust him either as he has moved office three times in last ten years and I reckon he works form home now looking at the address which hardly fills me with confidence the FOS will want to here about this I reckon
    • Brokerwise
    • By Brokerwise 26th Nov 14, 10:31 PM
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    Brokerwise
    Well he rang tonight asking how I wanted this copy of the call in he reckons he has me being told it was available and my decision to take it or not and discussing the cost first how do I know it will even be me on the recording and also he sounded cocky about it he says that is all his firm had to do then I do not trust him either as he has moved office three times in last ten years and I reckon he works form home now looking at the address which hardly fills me with confidence the FOS will want to here about this I reckon
    Originally posted by OVB
    So you are going to complain to the Ombudsman on the following basis,

    1) You dispute it is you on the call recording he is providing ?
    2) You do not 'trust' him ?
    3) He has had the audacity to have moved premises and now might work from home ?

    Do you actually realise that if you take this to the Ombudsman they will charge the poor !!!!!! £500 to defend his case ????

    It may be worth enquiring is he also owns a black cat and broom and floats in water if dunked in a stool
    Last edited by Brokerwise; 26-11-2014 at 10:44 PM.
    • lovinituk
    • By lovinituk 26th Nov 14, 10:44 PM
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    lovinituk
    And another poster above was wondering why people get criticised!! Well there it is ladies and gentlemen....!!!
    Well he rang tonight asking how I wanted this copy of the call in he reckons he has me being told it was available and my decision to take it or not and discussing the cost first how do I know it will even be me on the recording and also he sounded cocky about it he says that is all his firm had to do then I do not trust him either as he has moved office three times in last ten years and I reckon he works form home now looking at the address which hardly fills me with confidence the FOS will want to here about this I reckon
    Originally posted by OVB
    What a ridiculous attitude and rather immature.
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 26th Nov 14, 11:27 PM
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    Moneyineptitude
    how do I know it will even be me on the recording
    Originally posted by OVB
    You can't recognise your own voice on a recording?
    also he sounded cocky
    Originally posted by OVB
    If he has a recording of you disproving your complaint then I would expect him to sound confident.
    he has moved office three times in last ten years
    Originally posted by OVB
    This supports your complaint in what way?
    I reckon he works form home
    Originally posted by OVB
    He is fully entitled to do this.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 26th Nov 14, 11:41 PM
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    dunstonh
    Well he rang tonight asking how I wanted this copy of the call in he reckons he has me being told it was available and my decision to take it or not and discussing the cost first how do I know it will even be me on the recording and also he sounded cocky about it he says that is all his firm had to do then I do not trust him either as he has moved office three times in last ten years and I reckon he works form home now looking at the address which hardly fills me with confidence the FOS will want to here about this I reckon
    Most advisers work from home. Its known as a cottage industry. I work from home and most advisers I know do so. Whether he works from home or not wont be the slightest bit of concern to the FOS.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • magpiecottage
    • By magpiecottage 27th Nov 14, 12:15 AM
    • 9,101 Posts
    • 5,584 Thanks
    magpiecottage
    He made me feel that a PPI was compulsory for me to get the mortgage
    Originally posted by OVB
    That is likely to be an "oh yes you did" "oh no I didn't" argument. It might be true but the onus is on you to prove your assertion.

    I was not given any details of the policy and feel this did not suit my circumstances.
    Why not? You were taking out a mortgage. If your earnings had stopped then you would not have been able to meet the payments and, at that time, there was a wait of 9 months for any State Assistance. Your mortgage lender would typically have started possession proceedings after 3.

    At that time, the Mortgage Code Compliance Board had a Good Practice Guide which not only advocated offering PPI but recommended advisers got borrowers refusing it to sign a disclaimer.

    He reckons he can disprove all of this as he will have a copy of a call to me confirming that I was told all this but it was 11 years ago so I doubt it and reckon he is trying to fob me off.
    He may do.

    If he has this call why has he not sent it yet I wonder answer me that
    Probably because he wants to provide a final response

    My husband got his ppi back easy from a Lloyds card
    This bears no relation to your dispute with a completely different business. He does, though, have my sympathy.

    Well he rang tonight asking how I wanted this copy of the call in he reckons he has me being told it was available and my decision to take it or not and discussing the cost
    Originally posted by OVB
    Sounds like your case is unravelling.

    first how do I know it will even be me on the recording
    Whether you believe it is you irrelevant. In the end, you need to convince an Ombudsman that it isn't.

    also he sounded cocky about it
    That hardly seems relevant to your assertion that the policy wa missold.

    he says that is all his firm had to do then
    That would be the correct principle. It is rather like the fact that you cannot be prosecuted for driving along a road at 50 mph when the limit there was later reduced from 60 to 30.

    I do not trust him either
    I suspect that feeling is mutual

    as he has moved office three times in last ten years
    I cannot see how that is relevant.

    I reckon he works form home now looking at the address which hardly fills me with confidence
    Lots of people work from home, including me! However, your snobbishness is of no relevence to whether the policy was missold or not.

    FOS will want to here about this I reckon
    They will just put it onto the "to do" pile. They will not be particularly bothered either way. They are not a regulator and are not supposed to be a consumer champion.
    Last edited by magpiecottage; 27-11-2014 at 12:17 AM.
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