Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • AB Express
    • By AB Express 27th Sep 14, 2:33 PM
    • 89Posts
    • 61Thanks
    AB Express
    VCS PCN - Help Needed
    • #1
    • 27th Sep 14, 2:33 PM
    VCS PCN - Help Needed 27th Sep 14 at 2:33 PM
    Hi All, need some advice regarding a PCN from VCS. I have read through the sticky for the newbies and would like help with my situation.

    The PCN was issued for 'stopping on a roadway where stopping is prohibited'. The piece of 'road' where the car had stopped on was pretty much a dirt track that is not much longer than a car that leads to wasteland. The car was pulled over to check an oil leak and the photos on the PCN show the driver bent over looking under the car.

    I have ignored the letters. So far I have had 2 from VCS and have received 2 from DRP (second received today).

    I would just like to know what my options are. Any advice will be much appreciated.

    Thanks
    Last edited by AB Express; 15-11-2016 at 8:02 PM.
Page 9
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 8th Nov 17, 2:33 PM
    • 1,807 Posts
    • 3,189 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    Wouldn't go with your original defence though - and the reference to another case just confirms you knew that area was being controlled by VCS.

    Seems I was wrong
    Last edited by IamEmanresu; 08-11-2017 at 2:50 PM.
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.

    Send them that costs schedule though, 24 hours before the hearing, and file it with the court. Take with you evidence that you have sent the costs schedule to them and when.
    LoC
    • AB Express
    • By AB Express 8th Nov 17, 2:45 PM
    • 89 Posts
    • 61 Thanks
    AB Express
    The PCNs were issued a week apart, didn’t get the first one through the post until after the second alleged offence took place. Wasn’t aware VCS were patrolling the area.

    The second PCN is the one I have defended in court. Judge ruled in my favour as the piece of land the PCN was issued on falls outside of what VCS call the no stopping zone. This will form part of my defence for the first PCN.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 8th Nov 17, 2:52 PM
    • 1,807 Posts
    • 3,189 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    as the piece of land the PCN was issued on falls outside of what VCS call the no stopping zone
    So the earlier one can be fought on lack of signs and outwith the area?

    A map of the area in question would be very useful to others.
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.

    Send them that costs schedule though, 24 hours before the hearing, and file it with the court. Take with you evidence that you have sent the costs schedule to them and when.
    LoC
    • AB Express
    • By AB Express 8th Nov 17, 2:55 PM
    • 89 Posts
    • 61 Thanks
    AB Express
    Yes, plus I have the map VCS/BW supplied in their evidence pack with what they class as the no stopping zone.
    • AB Express
    • By AB Express 15th Nov 17, 11:55 AM
    • 89 Posts
    • 61 Thanks
    AB Express
    Letter received today
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Nov 17, 9:25 PM
    • 51,650 Posts
    • 65,310 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    OK can you show us what they sent, and how your defence draft looks?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • AB Express
    • By AB Express 20th Nov 17, 3:25 PM
    • 89 Posts
    • 61 Thanks
    AB Express
    Draft defence, any feedback greatly appreciated.


    I am XXXXXXXX, defendant in this matter.

    1. It is likely to be a matter of common ground that this claim arises as the result of an alleged infraction brought about by the stopping of a XXXXXX motor vehicle registration number XXXXX on XXXXXX at the International Business Park, Liverpool that in turn resulted in the issue of a parking charge notice by the Claimant.

    2. As the Defendant in this matter, I wish to bring to the courts attention case XXXXXXXX which was successfully defended by myself for a vehicle stopped in the same location a week after this alleged infraction took place. The vehicle, on both occasions was stopped for a matter of minutes outside of what VCS have outlined as the ‘no stopping zone’. Additionally, the alleged contravention of ‘stopping on a roadway where stopping is prohibited’ cannot be applied here as the vehicle was clearly not stopped on a roadway but an unused piece of land.

    3. As an unrepresented litigant-in-person I respectfully ask that I be permitted to amend and or supplement this interim defence as may be required following a fuller disclosure of the Claimant’s case.

    4. I deny any liability in respect of the claim.

    5. In his Particulars of Claim the Claimant fails to disclose the head or heads of action in which these proceedings are based and in any event no cause is disclosed that has a realistic prospect of success. Furthermore, the lack of detail prevents my being able to respond in more detail.

    6. The Claimant is a well-funded company with a dedicated legal staff and is a serial litigator. I submit that his issuing Particulars of Claim lacking in usable detail or that do not disclose a clear cause of action is not only remiss but smacks of a “Cut and Paste” approach to the issuing of proceedings. I further submit that this demonstrates a disregard for the dignity of the court and little concern for the Claimant’s duties in supporting the court to achieve the overriding objectives.

    7. Additionally such scant Particulars leave Defendants to respond to what are at best vague details.

    8. It is denied that the Claimant is the landowner of the property in question or that they have any other right or proprietary interest in the land or any demonstrable intention to occupy it sufficient to support this claim.

    9. The Claimant is therefore put to strict proof that they were at the time of the alleged event in possession of sufficient authority to issue parking charges and institute proceedings in their own name and can demonstrate a clear chain of authority from the landowner.

    10. I will seek to argue a more detailed rebuttal should the Claimant plead the case cited but in any event submit that the case cited be disregarded.

    11. If the court is minded to accept that the Claimant has standing then I submit that the signs on site at the time of the alleged event were insufficient in terms of their numbers, distribution and wording to reasonably convey a contractual obligation and did not in any event at the time comply with the requirements of the Code of Practice of the Independent Parking Committee’s Accredited Operators Scheme a signatory to which the Claimant was at the relevant time.

    12. I further submit that anybody would struggle to read the terms, let alone agree to a charge. Such is the complexity and density of the text on the Claimant’s signs that the most onerous term – the £100 parking charge notice – is buried amongst a mass of small print and does not even begin to comply with Denning MR’s “Red Hand Rule”.

    13. In the absence of any signage that contractually bound the Defendant then there can have been no contract and the Claimant has no case.

    14. The Claimant is put to strict proof of all his assertions.

    15. The Court is invited to dismiss the Claim, and to allow such Defendant’s costs as are permissible under Civil Procedure Rule 27.14.

    I believe that the facts stated in this Statement of Defence, XXXXXX, are true.

    Signed
    Last edited by AB Express; 20-11-2017 at 3:30 PM.
    • AB Express
    • By AB Express 20th Nov 17, 3:29 PM
    • 89 Posts
    • 61 Thanks
    AB Express
    Few questions...


    Do I put anything in about the reg they got wrong on some of their correspondence? A reg that didn't exist.


    On the claim form the amount claimed, court fee and legal fees doesn't add up to the total amount? And this amount differs to what they say I owe on the letters.
    Last edited by AB Express; 23-11-2017 at 8:42 AM.
    • AB Express
    • By AB Express 20th Nov 17, 3:36 PM
    • 89 Posts
    • 61 Thanks
    AB Express
    OK can you show us what they sent, and how your defence draft looks?
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad

    I received a letter informing me a County Court Claim has been issued along with the original Claim Form
    • AB Express
    • By AB Express 23rd Nov 17, 8:39 AM
    • 89 Posts
    • 61 Thanks
    AB Express
    Morning all, any pointers / amends on my initial draft of my defence?

    Thanks in advance
    • AB Express
    • By AB Express 23rd Nov 17, 9:35 PM
    • 89 Posts
    • 61 Thanks
    AB Express
    Any guidance on my draft please?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 24th Nov 17, 12:18 AM
    • 51,650 Posts
    • 65,310 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Few questions...

    Do I put anything in about the reg they got wrong on some of their correspondence? A reg that didn't exist.

    On the claim form the amount claimed, court fee and legal fees doesn't add up to the total amount? And this amount differs to what they say I owe on the letters.
    Originally posted by AB Express
    I would add both of those either at this stage or at Witness Statement stage, or both, to expose the slapdash robo-claim and to demonstrate that their details are unreliable.

    Your defence looks good, it covers the bases and sets the scene at the start.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • AB Express
    • By AB Express 27th Nov 17, 1:16 PM
    • 89 Posts
    • 61 Thanks
    AB Express
    Added a few extra paragraphs following Coupon-mads's feedback




    I am XXXXXXXX, defendant in this matter.

    1. It is likely to be a matter of common ground that this claim arises as the result of an alleged infraction brought about by the stopping of a XXXXXX motor vehicle registration number XXXXX on XXXXXX at the International Business Park, Liverpool that in turn resulted in the issue of a parking charge notice by the Claimant.

    2. As the Defendant in this matter, I wish to bring to the courts attention case XXXXXXXX which was successfully defended by myself for a vehicle stopped in the same location a week after this alleged infraction took place. The vehicle, on both occasions was stopped for a matter of minutes outside of what VCS have outlined as the ‘no stopping zone’. Additionally, the alleged contravention of ‘stopping on a roadway where stopping is prohibited’ cannot be applied here as the vehicle was clearly not stopped on a roadway but an unused piece of land.

    3. As an unrepresented litigant-in-person I respectfully ask that I be permitted to amend and or supplement this interim defence as may be required following a fuller disclosure of the Claimant’s case.

    4. My final correspondence with BW Legal (prior to the recent court order) regarding this matter was over a year ago. BW Legal had sent a letter quoting a vehicle registration number that hadn’t appeared on any other correspondence. I informed them that I had never been the registered keeper of that vehicle and in fact that registration number didn’t exist.

    5. I would also like to draw the courts attention to the amount the Claimant is pursuing as it varies depending on which document you look at. On the Claim Form dated XXXXXX, the Claimant has entered the following amounts;
    Amount claimed £176.84
    Court fee £25.00
    Legal Rep Cost £126.00
    Total amount £251.84

    I calculate the total amount to £327.84, not £251.84. On the most recent letter dated XXXXX, BW Legal state the balance due is £273.84.

    6. I deny any liability in respect of the claim.

    7. In his Particulars of Claim the Claimant fails to disclose the head or heads of action in which these proceedings are based and in any event no cause is disclosed that has a realistic prospect of success. Furthermore, the lack of detail prevents my being able to respond in more detail.

    8. The Claimant is a well-funded company with a dedicated legal staff and is a serial litigator. I submit that his issuing Particulars of Claim lacking in usable detail or that do not disclose a clear cause of action is not only remiss but smacks of a “Cut and Paste” approach to the issuing of proceedings. I further submit that this demonstrates a disregard for the dignity of the court and little concern for the Claimant’s duties in supporting the court to achieve the overriding objectives.

    9. Additionally such scant Particulars leave Defendants to respond to what are at best vague details.

    10. It is denied that the Claimant is the landowner of the property in question or that they have any other right or proprietary interest in the land or any demonstrable intention to occupy it sufficient to support this claim.

    11. The Claimant is therefore put to strict proof that they were at the time of the alleged event in possession of sufficient authority to issue parking charges and institute proceedings in their own name and can demonstrate a clear chain of authority from the landowner.

    12. I will seek to argue a more detailed rebuttal should the Claimant plead the case cited but in any event submit that the case cited be disregarded.

    13. If the court is minded to accept that the Claimant has standing then I submit that the signs on site at the time of the alleged event were insufficient in terms of their numbers, distribution and wording to reasonably convey a contractual obligation and did not in any event at the time comply with the requirements of the Code of Practice of the Independent Parking Committee’s Accredited Operators Scheme a signatory to which the Claimant was at the relevant time.

    14. I further submit that anybody would struggle to read the terms, let alone agree to a charge. Such is the complexity and density of the text on the Claimant’s signs that the most onerous term – the £100 parking charge notice – is buried amongst a mass of small print and does not even begin to comply with Denning MR’s “Red Hand Rule”.

    15. In the absence of any signage that contractually bound the Defendant then there can have been no contract and the Claimant has no case.

    16. The Claimant is put to strict proof of all his assertions.

    17. The Court is invited to dismiss the Claim, and to allow such Defendant’s costs as are permissible under Civil Procedure Rule 27.14.

    I believe that the facts stated in this Statement of Defence, 10/09/2016, are true.

    Signed
    • AB Express
    • By AB Express 28th Nov 17, 8:45 PM
    • 89 Posts
    • 61 Thanks
    AB Express
    Any advice on my defence please?
    • AB Express
    • By AB Express 30th Nov 17, 8:43 PM
    • 89 Posts
    • 61 Thanks
    AB Express
    Approaching my submission deadline. Any advice please?
    • AB Express
    • By AB Express 3rd Dec 17, 10:51 PM
    • 89 Posts
    • 61 Thanks
    AB Express
    Need to submit this week so would be extremely grateful if I could get some feedback before I sent it please?
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

4,986Posts Today

10,224Users online

Martin's Twitter