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    • Muttleythefrog
    • By Muttleythefrog 5th Jul 17, 8:50 PM
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    Muttleythefrog
    Oh, I see where you are getting the £8 from now.

    You cannot use that logic to say it costs £8 to cross London.
    Originally posted by wealdroam
    Why not? Where is the extra expense arising from? What am I missing in my mind here.. there must be something.... surely... right.. we're talking about exactly the same train journeys but one with the underground connection included and one without? £16 difference in the example I gave you... who on earth would knowingly pay that for a trip Kings Cross to Paddington.. do the taxis even cost that?..lol

    In the absence of any advice contrary I'll just have to assume it is a rip off.... and buy tickets without underground included and have Oyster used. It could save a significant chunk of the journey cost.
    Last edited by Muttleythefrog; 05-07-2017 at 9:18 PM.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
    • wealdroam
    • By wealdroam 5th Jul 17, 9:18 PM
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    wealdroam
    Why not? Where is the extra expense arising from? What am I missing in my mind here.. there must be something.... surely... right?
    Originally posted by Muttleythefrog
    Read MSE's Cheap Train Tickets article.

    In there you will see a whole section on split ticketing which includes:
    This is the big trick everyone should know. Instead of buying tickets for the whole journey, bizarrely, buying tickets for its constituent parts separately can slash the price – even though you're travelling on exactly the same train.
    Here's another example:
    An Anytime Single from Stevenage to Doncaster is £91.
    An Anytime Single from Stevenage to Grantham is £45.
    An Anytime Single from Grantham to Doncaster is £29.

    That's a saving of £17.

    Are you suggesting that 'the railway' are charging you £17 for absolutely nothing?
    Yes, that is exactly what they are doing.

    That's a direct train. There is no need to even use the facilities, i.e. the platform, at Grantham. No need to change trains. No need to get off the train.

    All you are seeing here is the quirks of the railway fares system.

    Have you seen this video:
    • wealdroam
    • By wealdroam 5th Jul 17, 9:40 PM
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    wealdroam
    In the absence of any advice contrary I'll just have to assume it is a rip off.... and buy tickets without underground included and have Oyster used. It could save a significant chunk of the journey cost.
    Originally posted by Muttleythefrog
    Can I suggest that you cannot always assume that a cross London trip will be charged at £16 or £8 or any particular amount.
    But for your particular journey, clearly splitting the tickets and using Oyster payg is the way to go.
    Last edited by wealdroam; 05-07-2017 at 11:06 PM.
    • Muttleythefrog
    • By Muttleythefrog 5th Jul 17, 11:16 PM
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    Muttleythefrog
    Now that you've edited your post, can I suggest that you cannot always assume that a cross London trip will be charged at £16 or £8 or any particular amount.
    But for your particular journey, clearly splitting the tickets and using Oyster payg is the way to go.
    Originally posted by wealdroam
    It seems so.. although technically I don't think this would count as splitting the tickets as such.... in effect would be buying the same tickets for the train travel as suggested but would simply not have the underground connection included. Surprised a little I couldn't see any reference to this around the web and hence my pushing query into this loosely related but clearly active thread. There's lots of places telling people how their tickets will be marked to show they have paid for connection on the underground but seemingly nothing on how much this costs as part of their fare. I might do some more comparisons to see how much variance there is seemingly in regard to this... or maybe just wait until summer when flying is viable and much quicker and no more expensive..lol. Thanks for the links... yeah pretty much all studied... our system is a farce... last time I tried to use the train I had to abort at the station due to the panic caused by all the different prices and options for the same route on a ticket machine I couldn't seem to find the right buttons on.
    Last edited by Muttleythefrog; 05-07-2017 at 11:19 PM.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
    • JimmyTheWig
    • By JimmyTheWig 7th Jul 17, 3:51 PM
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    JimmyTheWig
    If you have a split ticket and there is a delay, presumably you only get a Delay Repay refund on the bit that was late?
    • wealdroam
    • By wealdroam 7th Jul 17, 5:20 PM
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    wealdroam
    If you have a split ticket and there is a delay, presumably you only get a Delay Repay refund on the bit that was late?
    Originally posted by JimmyTheWig
    No, that is not correct.

    Condition 14 of The National Rail Conditions of Travel tells us:
    ...you may use a combination of two or more Tickets to make a journey provided that the train services you use call at the station(s) where you change from one Ticket to another.
    If the time you arrive at the end of your rail journey is sufficiently late, then you are due compensation based on the fare for the whole journey.
    Compensation should be claimed from the train operator that caused that late arrival.
    Last edited by wealdroam; 07-07-2017 at 6:02 PM.
    • yorkie2
    • By yorkie2 7th Jul 17, 7:17 PM
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    yorkie2
    If you have a split ticket and there is a delay, presumably you only get a Delay Repay refund on the bit that was late?
    Originally posted by JimmyTheWig
    Delay Repay applies to your journey.

    The Conditions of Travel absolutely allow passengers to use two or more tickets for one journey.
    • Muttleythefrog
    • By Muttleythefrog 8th Jul 17, 4:06 PM
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    Muttleythefrog
    Delay Repay applies to your journey.

    The Conditions of Travel absolutely allow passengers to use two or more tickets for one journey.
    Originally posted by yorkie2
    So I guess I need some technocrat to figure out if the same is true if the journey is broken by a transfer underground between London stations not being bought with the tickets.

    i.e. Ticket A to B bought with Ticket C to D for journey A to D.
    But where B to C is underground connection between London stations (e.g. Kings Cross to Paddington) and tickets are not purchased with this included.

    The question arising since I cannot understand why the apparent inclusion in the rail journey of the London transfer can add difficult to justify expense above and beyond the 2 rail tickets bought separately.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
    • wealdroam
    • By wealdroam 8th Jul 17, 4:14 PM
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    wealdroam
    So I guess I need some technocrat to figure out if the same is true if the journey is broken by a transfer underground between London stations not being bought with the tickets.

    i.e. Ticket A to B bought with Ticket C to D for journey A to D.
    But where B to C is underground connection between London stations (e.g. Kings Cross to Paddington) and tickets are not purchased with this included.
    Originally posted by Muttleythefrog
    You definitely do not need to buy all the tickets at the same time.

    Your journey consists of three parts.
    One part is the tube travel.
    Thus you have three tickets covering your journey.
    • bartonhillbum
    • By bartonhillbum 9th Jul 17, 4:45 PM
    • 18 Posts
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    bartonhillbum
    Bristol to Grantham
    A flexible Off Peak return is £80.70 (avoiding London; ie via Birmingham) or £115.70 (via London), if you can travel at the applicable off-peak times. I can't find a £76.35 fare.

    The new Trainsplit site finds a combination of flexible fares, via Birmingham totalling £77.01.

    If you can tie yourself to specific trains, it may be worth waiting a week or two for non-refundable 'booked train only' Advance Single fares to become available.

    Currently, Advance Single fares are available on some of the operators on the relevant routes, but not all.
    Originally posted by yorkie2
    Hi Yorkie 2
    The fare is £76:35p return on both National Rail and also GWR via Paddington on the outward leg and via Birmingham on the return. The only problem is that there seems to be NO trains between 13:00 and 19:00 leaving Grantham.
    On Trainline the fare is £77 + plus the extras for booking fee.
    • bartonhillbum
    • By bartonhillbum 9th Jul 17, 4:51 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    bartonhillbum
    Bristol to Grantham
    A flexible Off Peak return is £80.70 (avoiding London; ie via Birmingham) or £115.70 (via London), if you can travel at the applicable off-peak times. I can't find a £76.35 fare.

    The new Trainsplit site finds a combination of flexible fares, via Birmingham totalling £77.01.

    If you can tie yourself to specific trains, it may be worth waiting a week or two for non-refundable 'booked train only' Advance Single fares to become available.

    Currently, Advance Single fares are available on some of the operators on the relevant routes, but not all.
    Originally posted by yorkie2
    Hi Yorkie 2
    The fare is £76:35p return on both National Rail and also GWR via Paddington on the outward leg and via Birmingham on the return. The only problem is that there seems to be NO trains between 13:00 and 19:00 leaving Grantham.
    On Trainline the fare is £77 + plus the extras for booking fee.
    Just re checked Trainline and they are now quoting £155, as I have to be in Grantham for noon on a Friday and returning on the Sunday after 2pm
    • yorkie2
    • By yorkie2 10th Jul 17, 10:27 PM
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    yorkie2
    So I guess I need some technocrat to figure out if the same is true if the journey is broken by a transfer underground between London stations not being bought with the tickets.
    Originally posted by Muttleythefrog
    The journey is not broken, so you do not need to worry. All you need to do is allow sufficient interchange time. A National Rail accredited ticket splitting website, such as Ticketclever or Trainsplit will do that automatically.

    (I'm not sure if I qualify as a technocrat or not; I do not advocate complexity of rail tickets, but I am employed in a capacity where it is my job to understand that complexity)
    i.e. Ticket A to B bought with Ticket C to D for journey A to D.
    But where B to C is underground connection between London stations (e.g. Kings Cross to Paddington) and tickets are not purchased with this included.
    Originally posted by Muttleythefrog
    You can buy the first ticket to "Zone U1 London", or buy the second ticket from "Zone U1 London" to get this included.
    The question arising since I cannot understand why the apparent inclusion in the rail journey of the London transfer can add difficult to justify expense above and beyond the 2 rail tickets bought separately.
    Originally posted by Muttleythefrog
    Train companies often charge higher fares for longer journeys, irrespective of whether or not they go via London.

    Some journeys involve a walk or LU transfer; they are not charging a premium for either of these.

    The premium is unjustifiable, yes, but it's not for the reason that LU travel is included, I can assure you of that!
    • yorkie2
    • By yorkie2 10th Jul 17, 10:50 PM
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    • 528 Thanks
    yorkie2
    Hi Yorkie 2
    The fare is £76:35p return on both National Rail and also GWR via Paddington on the outward leg and via Birmingham on the return.
    Originally posted by bartonhillbum
    NRE doesn't sell tickets, so I've used GWR:

    Lawrence Hill to Grantham for Sep 22nd, I can find a single for £28 on GWR website departing at 1131, arriving Grantham 1539.

    Grantham to Lawrence Hill for Sep 24, I can find a single for £44 on GWR website departing at 1315, arriving 1756.

    Total fare £72.60

    The new version of Trainsplit* finds an overall total fare of £60 for the round trip, departing Lawrence Hill 1103 on the outward journey, and Lawrence Hill 1315 on the return.

    * To find it, do a Google search for "Trainsplit v2"

    The only problem is that there seems to be NO trains between 13:00 and 19:00 leaving Grantham.
    On Trainline the fare is £77 + plus the extras for booking fee.
    Originally posted by bartonhillbum
    I agree that no websites can offer itineraries from Grantham to Lawrence Hill after 1315; this is because the last train from Bristol to Lawrence Hill departs Bristol at 1753, arriving 1755.

    If you can use an alternative mode of transport between Temple Meads and Lawrence Hill, you can depart Grantham much later. Prices start at £28.
    • Muttleythefrog
    • By Muttleythefrog 11th Jul 17, 2:46 AM
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    Muttleythefrog
    The premium is unjustifiable, yes, but it's not for the reason that LU travel is included, I can assure you of that!
    Originally posted by yorkie2
    Thanks very much for your advice... I think it qualifies as technocrat..lol. I didn't realise you could buy the tickets to underground zone or from such as you suggest... but just testing it... it adds £3 (makes sense) on to ticket price if you make LU zone 1 the destination (as opposed to Kings cross). Yes I'm finding it all very odd this train booking lark... the latest issue being that companies like virgin east coast release tickets up to 24 weeks in advance.. but 12 weeks in advance for weekends... so why can't I yet book on sat 30 September which has now fallen under 12 weeks... hmmm. They're not alone... I assume there is some technical schedule to this... hidden behind the headlines featured here https://www.thetrainline.com/ticketalert
    Last edited by Muttleythefrog; 11-07-2017 at 3:01 AM.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
    • wealdroam
    • By wealdroam 11th Jul 17, 1:38 PM
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    wealdroam
    ... the latest issue being that companies like virgin east coast release tickets up to 24 weeks in advance.. but 12 weeks in advance for weekends... so why can't I yet book on sat 30 September which has now fallen under 12 weeks... hmmm. They're not alone... I assume there is some technical schedule to this...
    Originally posted by Muttleythefrog
    There is.

    The technical reason is that engineering works usually take place at weekends and because of that the train operating companies need to wait for Network Rail's detailed schedules before they know whether they can run any trains or not. It would be silly to offer cheap tickets when no trains are running.
    • stclair
    • By stclair 12th Jul 17, 4:08 PM
    • 6,378 Posts
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    stclair
    You can check for planned engineering works here:

    http://m.nationalrail.co.uk/pj/disruption/planned/25/8/2017/NT
    I Work For the RBS Group
    However Any Opinion Given On MSE Is Strictly My Own
    • sharonhart
    • By sharonhart 3rd Aug 17, 10:28 AM
    • 1 Posts
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    sharonhart
    Hi How can I book two tickets at the same time -using you tickety split tool? I have a two together rail card that I want to use.

    Many thanks
    Sharon
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 3rd Aug 17, 11:21 AM
    • 4,436 Posts
    • 2,773 Thanks
    KeithP
    Hi How can I book two tickets at the same time -using you tickety split tool? I have a two together rail card that I want to use.

    Many thanks
    Sharon
    Originally posted by sharonhart
    Try Trainsplit instead.
    .
    • Dave Barru
    • By Dave Barru 16th Aug 17, 1:29 PM
    • 1 Posts
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    Dave Barru
    I saved nearly £40
    I saved nearly £40 on a return ticket from Scarborough to Manchester airport by using Tickety Split via the MSE site. A single ticket from the airport to Scarborough was going to cost £62.90 plus fee. Splitting it meant buying a ticket to Leeds (£11.50) and one from there to Scarborough (£10.40).
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