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    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 4th Aug 16, 2:07 PM
    • 5,768 Posts
    • 9,816 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    Hi, just joined this Forum.
    Can anyone help with no standing charge with a solar panel / battery system.
    I have had solar panels installed with a battery of 6.4 Kw, this allows me to use the battery power stored each day and not use any electricity while also feeding Kw's back into the grid.
    I am a very low user of fuel about 7.5 kw a day on average (which comes from the battery as it charges and discharges all day and night) and will only use gas as back up heating in the winter months.
    So at present I have duel fuel tariff with two daily standing charges 16.5 p and 21.9 p which over the year comes to about £135 a year.
    My payment for feed in tariff should be about £240 year so would loose a chunk of this in standing charges.
    Being a low user ( I estimate no electricity bill and possibly a gas bill of less than £100) should I find a no standing charge tariff.
    Kind regards
    Mick
    Originally posted by mickbuzz
    Hiya Mick. I think it's highly unlikely you will reduce import to zero. The crucial factors here will be PV generation, particularly system size, orientation and even pitch.

    Assuming your 7.5kWh is spread evenly (it might be higher in the winter and lower in the summer) then you'll need an average generation of 7.5kWh in December.

    A quick check of PVGIS (picking Oxford at random) shows a December generation of approx 31kWh/kWp, so you'd need nearly 8kWp of PV (plus the battery) to cover winter generation. But crucially, on average, as several poor days will throw this out a bit.

    A steep 50d roof will improve December gen by about 10%.

    That said, so long as you have a reasonably sized system, say 3kWp plus, then you will hopefully have close to zero import Mch to Oct. But will probably still be importing 400/500kWh or so pa spread over the 4 remaining months.

    Regardless, I would have thought a no standing charge deal would suit you best. Even at 18p, 500kWh comes out at £90, whilst a daily charge of 20p is £70+ before paying for the leccy.

    Does any of that make sense?

    Mart.
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 4th Aug 16, 2:19 PM
    • 3,696 Posts
    • 4,551 Thanks
    zeupater
    Your solar panels are probably producing more than 7.5kwh per day during the summer; but what about in the winter? If you need to import any electricity during the winter, you need to work out carefully how much it is likely to cost. The saving in Standing Charge could easily be wiped out by a higher unit cost.
    Originally posted by ASavvyBuyer
    Hi

    Agree with above and would add that the full capabilities of the battery system depend entirely on what's been installed (ie battery type/spec and management system). If the system is capable of supplementing pv during the day then it will help in times of high load (ie a 3kW kettle) in duller conditions, but it's almost certain that energy will still be imported even during the day because the maximum power provision will be limited, either directly by the battery type (/life) or the build price/quality of the battery management system (incl battery inverter). Although the battery system should be capable of providing the power for TV, lighting etc at night, as soon as the load or charge threshold is passed, import will start, the amount of electricity purchased will depend on the the time that the combined household load exceeds the supply capacity of the battery system and, of course, the charge state as provides by the pv during the day .... as 'ASavvyBuyer' mentioned above, there will be plenty of days when the pv won't even meet daytime energy requirement thus leaving nothing spare to divert to the batteries ....

    People really do need to understand the capabilities of battery storage, particularly when combined with pv else we'll just end up with unscrupulous salesmen (&women!) employing even more unscrupulous sales practices. In order to make best use of self generated and stored energy in order to reduce imports 'mickbuzz' not only needs to reassess/address the power demand of many of the devices/appliances which are currently used, but also what, when, how and importantly, the necessity. 7.5kWh/day of electricity over a year is only about 17% below the national average so there's a long way to go before being considered as being a 'very low user' ...

    HTH
    Z ..... (A very low energy user on a ZSC tariff ... ! )
    Last edited by zeupater; 04-08-2016 at 2:29 PM. Reason: formatting
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • ASavvyBuyer
    • By ASavvyBuyer 7th Aug 16, 9:28 AM
    • 504 Posts
    • 1,300 Thanks
    ASavvyBuyer
    Thanks just took a peep at their website think this set up would suit me, also electricity unit rate is lower than I pay at the moment (if I pay anything anymore) gas is a bit higher but hay the saving in standing charges would well out way the balances.
    Originally posted by mickbuzz
    Your electricity unit rate must be very expensive at the moment, if the Ebico unit rate is lower. Are you on a standard tariff (the most expensive type usually) ? A quick comparison with other electric providers should easily find a company charging less (including daily standing charge).

    I do hope you were not mis-sold the battery system on the basis of it producing savings based on a very high electricty unit cost.
    Last edited by ASavvyBuyer; 07-08-2016 at 9:36 AM. Reason: Typo
    Rhondda Cynon Taf, 4kWp, W roof, 30° pitch, 16 x 8.33 Eternity 250w E+10 panels, Solar Edge SE4000-16A Inverter + P300 Optimisers & REUK Diverter
    + Toshiba RAS-10G2KVP-E Ultra High Efficiency Air Conditioner/Heat Pump
    • quisquis
    • By quisquis 8th Aug 16, 7:13 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    quisquis
    Can I suggest people take a look here....
    http://standingwater.simdif.com
    maybe it can work for energy too!
    • pharmice
    • By pharmice 27th May 17, 11:17 AM
    • 17 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    pharmice
    Over the moon!
    My monthly bill for energy (gas and electric) has been halved from £30/month to £13/month after switching to a no standing charge tariff. I live alone in a 2 bed mid-terrace property with no dependants, maybe that's why. This no standing charge tariffs are not receiving enough publicity from MSE for some reason, maybe they are not being incentivised to publicise them. This deal will serve most single people very well.
    • molerat
    • By molerat 27th May 17, 11:26 AM
    • 16,987 Posts
    • 11,174 Thanks
    molerat
    Your monthly costs have reduced because the new unit price with no standing charge combined with your incredibly low use is less than the combination of (higher) standing charge and low unit cost of your old tariff. No standing charge tariffs are generally way more expensive than those with for anyone except the lowest of users. A comparison site will give you the correct tariff, with or without standing charge, that suits your particular use pattern. In my case the cheapest NSC tariff is 50% more than I am currently paying. The reason they are not promoted is that they are simply not suitable on cost grounds for the vast majority of consumers.

    £30 per month for G&E is ridiculously low, £13 is unfeasibly low. I do hope you used an accurate annual kWh figure when looking at the comparisons - please give us those figures.
    Last edited by molerat; 27-05-2017 at 11:33 AM.
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk/donations.html
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 27th May 17, 1:43 PM
    • 3,696 Posts
    • 4,551 Thanks
    zeupater
    Your monthly costs have reduced because the new unit price with no standing charge combined with your incredibly low use is less than the combination of (higher) standing charge and low unit cost of your old tariff. No standing charge tariffs are generally way more expensive than those with for anyone except the lowest of users. A comparison site will give you the correct tariff, with or without standing charge, that suits your particular use pattern. In my case the cheapest NSC tariff is 50% more than I am currently paying. The reason they are not promoted is that they are simply not suitable on cost grounds for the vast majority of consumers.

    £30 per month for G&E is ridiculously low, £13 is unfeasibly low. I do hope you used an accurate annual kWh figure when looking at the comparisons - please give us those figures.
    Originally posted by molerat
    Hi

    I tend to disagree with the conclusion ...

    Spending £30/month on G&E may be low, possibly even classified by many as being 'ridiculously low', however it is possible for many to achieve this level of expenditure with a little effort and investment. ...

    As for a level of £13/month being 'infeasibly low', well, considering that our own combined energy monthly DD isn't far from this, it can't be 'infeasible' at all. Our ultra low level of gas and imported electricity usage is due to the employment of massive levels of insulation as well as energy saving measures and technologies ...

    The cheapest energy you will ever buy is that which you don't use !


    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • pharmice
    • By pharmice 27th May 17, 10:24 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    pharmice
    Your monthly costs have reduced because the new unit price with no standing charge combined with your incredibly low use is less than the combination of (higher) standing charge and low unit cost of your old tariff. No standing charge tariffs are generally way more expensive than those with for anyone except the lowest of users. A comparison site will give you the correct tariff, with or without standing charge, that suits your particular use pattern. In my case the cheapest NSC tariff is 50% more than I am currently paying. The reason they are not promoted is that they are simply not suitable on cost grounds for the vast majority of consumers.

    £30 per month for G&E is ridiculously low, £13 is unfeasibly low. I do hope you used an accurate annual kWh figure when looking at the comparisons - please give us those figures.
    Originally posted by molerat
    Electricity statement For the period: 25 March 2017 to 25 May 2017
    This statement
    Electricity charges £26.84
    Total charges this statement £26.84
    The electricity you've used - actual
    Unrestricted units 13193 13339 146. kWh
    Your electricity charges this period
    Your tariff is EquiPower
    25 Mar 2017 - 27 Apr 2017
    Standard energy 85.kWh at 16.43p £13.96
    Standing charge £0.00
    28 Apr 2017 - 25 May 2017
    Standard energy 61.kWh at 19.03p £11.61
    Standing charge £0.00
    VAT 5.00%
    (on charges of £25.57)
    £1.27
    Total electricity charges this period £26.84

    Gas statement
    For the period: 25 March 2017 to 25 May 2017
    This statement
    Gas charges £0.57
    Total charges this statement £0.57
    The gas you've used - actual
    Gas Unrestricted kWh 6898 6899 1. units
    Converted to kilowatt hours (kWh) 11.27 kWh
    Your gas charges this period
    Your tariff is EquiGas
    Standard energy 11.27 kWh at 4.95p £0.55
    Standing charge £0.00
    VAT 5.00%
    (on charges of £0.55)
    £0.02
    Total gas charges this period £0.57
    • an_ecunemical_matter
    • By an_ecunemical_matter 20th Jul 17, 6:05 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    an_ecunemical_matter
    Hi all. Can I stick me oar in on this with my figures as I can agree that bills can be mega low on no SC.

    02 June 2015 to 30 May 2016
    .
    Your electricity usage summary

    Last year's estimated usage and cost
    You used 863 kWh Total cost £147.56
    ===========================
    1 May 2015 to 30 April 2016

    Your gas usage summary
    We've worked out that this year you used
    1,135.21 kWh.
    This is based on actual readings.

    This year your total estimated costs were £59.08.

    £206.64.

    I added up 2016 into 2017 (I switched both so didn't get an annual statement) and both together came to £195.54 !!! Both are around £16 pcm for gas and elec, single occupancy (usually !) of FFF built in 2008.
    • Janfork
    • By Janfork 21st Jul 17, 1:00 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Janfork
    Low electricity use
    Anyone know a tariff with zero standing charge? At my stables i use £5/year max. Moved to ebco zero when scot. power introduced standing charge, but now SSE have finished that.
    • Pagett
    • By Pagett 22nd Jul 17, 11:29 AM
    • 72 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    Pagett
    Anyone know a tariff with zero standing charge? At my stables i use £5/year max. Moved to ebco zero when scot. power introduced standing charge, but now SSE have finished that.
    Originally posted by Janfork
    Stables?

    So obviously not a domestic tariff; you need a commercial one.
    Unfortunately, there are not many if any online comparison sites for this. What you probably need is a good broker, but try this thread for starters
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=2103023

    What are you using the £5 p.a worth of electricity on?
    It may be you'd be better off without a supply at all.
    Can you take a cable from another supply? (with the account holders permission, of course)
    If not, consider perhaps a portable generator, rechargeable batteries (perhaps with an inverter), wind/solar power generators, etc. as appropriate.

    If you give us some more details on what you use the electricity for, then perhaps someone could advise further?
    • mark21667
    • By mark21667 15th Aug 17, 4:41 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    mark21667
    Moved from SSE to Ebico.
    Was with SSE for gas for 3 years with no standing charge. Was well happy and paying 16 quid a year for gas. Moved to Ebico when SSE started charging. Ebico were supplying my old gas to SSE and I'd heard of Ebico zero. Signed up and it seems they now want 25p a day despite nothing changing on my end. Have a card meter same as always. Are there any places with no standing charge for gas customers on a card meter?
    • Superbird
    • By Superbird 10th Sep 17, 1:06 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Superbird
    I am another one who has been screwed over by SSE/Ebico (they claim to have given advance warning in March, but I never heard a peep until August) and Ofgem's silly rate cap. I only use a trickle of juice and sometimes never use any gas from one year's end to the next. It is proving incredibly difficult to find any alternative. My requirements are very simple:

    - No standing charge, so it doesn't keep racking up cost uncontrollably regardless of whether I'm using it or not.
    - PAYG, so I only pay when I've got the money and never have to pay more than I've got, and never get hit with some whacking great lump that I can't pay because I never see that much money in a lump.
    - No spy meters (laughingly known as "smart meters" by their propagandists).

    As long as those basic requirements are met I really don't much care what the actual cost per unit is, or whether it ends up more expensive in total than what I've been used to. The important thing is that the expense should be entirely under my control and never come in larger lumps than I can cope with at any one time. It's no use something being cheaper in total, if the individual chunks are too large to pay.

    The principal difficulty in searching is that absolutely nowhere, not suppliers nor comparison sites (nor, apparently, Ofgem), has any understanding that the cheaper options are designed so that only people with a lot of money can make use of them. They just assume without thought that the options are equally accessible to all, and it is impossible to get away from the implementational insistence that total annual cost is the one and only significant criterion.

    Every site works the same unhelpful way: they insist on trying to "compare my usage" and "give me a quote" to reduce total annual cost. The process is totally opaque and it is impossible to know how many potentially useful tariffs they have decided not to tell me about on the spurious grounds that they're not the cheapest per annum. It is similarly impossible to guess how to alter the information I put in so as to trick it into showing other tariffs - and it doesn't help that many sites suffer from some weird kind of rounding errors so that when I enter my very small usage it changes it to a negative number and throws an error. Many sites, indeed, are so unhelpful that even when you do find a tariff it isn't possible to see whether or not it includes a standing charge.

    (Not to mention the numerous sites that simply don't work at all without me writing a couple of pages of code to correct the errors, but this isn't the place for that.)

    All I want is a straightforward list, a table that lists all the tariffs available in each of the 14(?) geographical areas, with details of the unit rate, standing charge, methods of payment, and meter restrictions if any. It would then be a doddle to pick out from the list the one that best suited me, and it would remove all the frustration and annoyance of trying to get the better of some computer that is choosing by criteria that I don't care about. The information must be available otherwise none of these comparison efforts would be possible at all, and it is ridiculous that you have to peck about fishing for individual data items with a blunt hook instead of simply being able to download the lot and after five minutes of reading spear the item you really want with a laser-guided needle.

    So far I have found precisely TWO possibilities, and neither of them looks much as if they stand any chance of becoming probabilities:

    - An outfit with the idiotically unsearchable name of "E" (website: e.org) show a couple of PAYG ZSC tariffs, so I wrote to them, but they are trying to tell me that they are "due to be discontinued" and offering me alternatives that do have a standing charge (whether or not they have other alternatives that don't meet the "annual cost ueber alles" criterion but are ZSC I don't know; none of the purported alternative tariffs have appeared on the comparison sites yet so I can't try and check).

    - "Eversmart" have something called "Goodbye Standing Charge" which shows up on some comparison sites if you turn off "only show suppliers we can help you switch to", but none of them even link to it and how you actually get from there to here is less than obvious.

    I shall try and remember to post back if I do find anything useful, but it really isn't looking all that hopeful at the moment.
    • 1kevfp
    • By 1kevfp 13th Sep 17, 12:38 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    1kevfp
    I am switching from BG as my MSE collective finishes 03 Oct, I have got the ovo fixed 2 year plan as suggested and the Avro fixed 1 year in mind which has a cheaper standing charge than ovo. ?uestion please - as we are out of the the country during the winter months am I better off with a cheaper standing charge? We do leave the gas central heating on low to comply with the insurance company and the lighting is on low voltage timer lights , thanks
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