Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
Page 546
    • Caz3121
    • By Caz3121 20th Dec 17, 5:44 PM
    • 10,917 Posts
    • 7,129 Thanks
    Caz3121
    I can see the BA2831 flight was delayed upon arrival by 195 minutes due to cabin crew sickness.
    Originally posted by big leon
    what was your routing? Is the flight number correct? BA2831 shows as an Alaska codeshare flight from SEA-OGG
    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 20th Dec 17, 5:48 PM
    • 1,240 Posts
    • 593 Thanks
    Tyzap
    Hi Big Leon,

    It looks like they are claiming that crew sickness exempts them but admit the flight was over 3 hours late.

    Please post your full flight details so we can check a few things.

    There are one or two occasions when crew sickness may be a acceptable exemption but they would be rare. BA should give you full details of how any why this sickness is deemed to be an EC in their view, but they always refuse.

    Put your flight details into an online flight delay calculator to confirm that you delay is claimable.

    I would then ask BA to refer your case to CEDR who will adjudicate on your behalf. Read 'Vaubans guide' too for lots of info, details below in my signature.

    Good luck.
    Please read Vaubans superb guide. To find it Google and then download 'vaubans guide'.
    • big leon
    • By big leon 21st Dec 17, 11:50 AM
    • 47 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    big leon
    what was your routing? Is the flight number correct? BA2831 shows as an Alaska codeshare flight from SEA-OGG
    Originally posted by Caz3121
    Hi Caz and Tyzap, thanks for the prompt responses!

    Here's the routing:

    Booking reference: UB4A84
    Existing complaint reference:
    Flight number: BA3281
    Departure airport: Ronaldsway Airport, IOM
    Scheduled departure time: Sat 2/12/17 7:00
    Arrival airport: London City Airport, LCY

    https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ba3281

    (Looks like BA made a copy paste error!)

    I've asked BA for a formal written response as to why they think crew sickness is a 'extraordinary circumstance'.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by big leon; 21-12-2017 at 11:53 AM.
    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 21st Dec 17, 2:55 PM
    • 1,240 Posts
    • 593 Thanks
    Tyzap
    Hi Caz and Tyzap, thanks for the prompt responses!

    Here's the routing:

    Booking reference: UB4A84
    Existing complaint reference:
    Flight number: BA3281
    Departure airport: Ronaldsway Airport, IOM
    Scheduled departure time: Sat 2/12/17 7:00
    Arrival airport: London City Airport, LCY

    https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ba3281

    (Looks like BA made a copy paste error!)

    I've asked BA for a formal written response as to why they think crew sickness is a 'extraordinary circumstance'.

    Thanks!
    Originally posted by big leon
    Hi,

    It looks like BA used a different aircraft for that flight. Normally it would be a Saab 2000 turbo prop ( belonging to Eastern Airways, a franchise operator I believe.

    However on the flight in question a BA Cityflyer Embraer 190 twin jet was used, which may indicate that it was the pilot or co pilot who was ill.

    Good luck.
    Please read Vaubans superb guide. To find it Google and then download 'vaubans guide'.
    • Nordictat2
    • By Nordictat2 21st Dec 17, 2:57 PM
    • 1,516 Posts
    • 1,365 Thanks
    Nordictat2
    Hi Nordictat2,

    That sounds like you had an awful trip thanks to Norwegian Airlines.

    It appears that you will get compensation, cost and expenses for the first delay.

    Two claims for one delay is a debatable and unclear issue at the moment.

    If you were issued with a boarding card for the second flight I would claim for it too, but keep the two claims completely separate, and see how they go.

    I assume you mean 1 day and 6 hours late all together. 6 hours just for the second flight?

    Good luck.
    Originally posted by Tyzap

    Update: 1 claim has been accepted..including the hotel I had to book in NY and food but it seems if I want 2 comps I need to file 2 separate ones..which I didn't do (I had sent it before reading your reply). It took them many weeks to reply back they said:

    Thank you for contacting us with your claim.

    Unfortunately, Norwegian flight DY7002 (JFK-OSL) 09.11.2017 was delayed by 7 hours and 6 minutes. Despite our best efforts, we were unable to avoid the disruption to this flight*.

    Based on the nature of this disruption you're entitled to standard EU compensation: 600 EUR pp. (600 EUR).

    On this occasion, we'd be happy to reimburse all of the costs claimed:

    - food (35,62 USD)

    - hotel (135,77 GBP)

    We thank you for providing us with your bank account details and we assure you that the approved amount above will be transferred to your nominated account within reasonable time.

    We apologise for the inconvenience caused on this occasion and hope to have the opportunity to welcome you on board a Norwegian flight when you next choose to travel.

    Kind regards,

    The Customer Relations Team



    Now...I just have to wait to see how long it will take for them to pay up but I am glad I didn't have to fight them on this claim! Phew!
    *If you like the advice I give...let me know by clicking the THANKS button*
    • big leon
    • By big leon 21st Dec 17, 2:58 PM
    • 47 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    big leon
    Hi,

    It looks like BA used a different aircraft for that flight. Normally it would be a Saab 2000 turbo prop ( belonging to Eastern Airways, a franchise operator I believe.

    However on the flight in question a BA Cityflyer Embraer 190 twin jet was used, which may indicate that it was the pilot or co pilot who was ill.

    Good luck.
    Originally posted by Tyzap
    Hi Tyzap,
    Yes, that's correct. They had to fly in a separate plane and crew from City airport to come pick us up.

    Would that make a difference in the 'extraordinary circumstances' discussion?

    Thanks!
    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 21st Dec 17, 3:17 PM
    • 1,240 Posts
    • 593 Thanks
    Tyzap
    Hi Tyzap,
    Yes, that's correct. They had to fly in a separate plane and crew from City airport to come pick us up.

    Would that make a difference in the 'extraordinary circumstances' discussion?

    Thanks!
    Originally posted by big leon
    As always, the devil is in the detail.

    I think the most crucial element now is how much time they had to react to the report of a sick crew member and where that crew member was, IOM or LCY.

    Can you shed any light on this?
    Please read Vaubans superb guide. To find it Google and then download 'vaubans guide'.
    • big leon
    • By big leon 21st Dec 17, 4:02 PM
    • 47 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    big leon
    As always, the devil is in the detail.

    I think the most crucial element now is how much time they had to react to the report of a sick crew member and where that crew member was, IOM or LCY.

    Can you shed any light on this?
    Originally posted by Tyzap
    Hi again,
    The only detail I had was a text message from BA at 5.24am (1.5 hours before the flight) saying the following:

    "Flight BA3281 on 02-Dec/IOM - Please be advised that due to crew sickness the BA3281 will be delayed until approx. 10.25"
    • JPears
    • By JPears 21st Dec 17, 5:22 PM
    • 3,400 Posts
    • 949 Thanks
    JPears
    So they already knew at least 90 minutes before departure that crew sickness was a factor. Given that they would have had to make several operational decisions to find a new crew or aircraft, well in advance of informing you, I suspect they will have known for much longer period.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • James35
    • By James35 26th Dec 17, 8:06 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    James35
    hate delays
    I hate delays but Ryanair I hate more. My flight was delayed over 6 hours, the online claim form does not work. The agent on the chat didn't give me the time to talk and explain the problem and closed the chat and of course if you try to call them, all offices are closed despite the closing time is in one hour. Very good. Well, that there are services that deal with such problems.I also turned to a similar company, AirAdvisor is called (website - airadvisor.com if someone is interested). A friend advised. So now I hope that they will help.
    Last edited by James35; 27-12-2017 at 9:26 AM.
    • leylandsunaddict
    • By leylandsunaddict 26th Dec 17, 8:32 AM
    • 1,559 Posts
    • 1,068 Thanks
    leylandsunaddict
    If their online form doesn't work, and chat cut you off how do other people claim?

    Most people don't bother going to ambulance chasing companies, at least not until their claim as been rejected. Why on earth would you before you've even submitted it, especially one based in Poland that's hardly been around 5 minutes, and whose website seems rather 'inferior'?
    • JPears
    • By JPears 26th Dec 17, 12:52 PM
    • 3,400 Posts
    • 949 Thanks
    JPears
    Given the grammar and use of language, one might suspect that James35 possibly works for said company?
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • Meoleman
    • By Meoleman 27th Dec 17, 6:31 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Meoleman
    Delay caused me to miss train journey
    We were delayed over 3 hours on a flight. As a result we missed our train home and the ticket was for a specific train. We had to buy new tickets at a much higher price and I was wondering whether there is any way to claim compensation for this in addition to the statutory compensation.
    • DrA_Harrogate
    • By DrA_Harrogate 28th Dec 17, 12:29 PM
    • 255 Posts
    • 98 Thanks
    DrA_Harrogate
    Weird American tale
    I really could not make this out. So some famous people were flying from LA to Tokyo. About half way there it was discovered a passenger was on the flight incorrectly - he was actually booked with a different airline, although he was destined for Tokyo. So the plane turned round 4 hours over the Pacific and went back to LA. You couldn't make it up.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42501489
    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 28th Dec 17, 1:57 PM
    • 1,240 Posts
    • 593 Thanks
    Tyzap
    We were delayed over 3 hours on a flight. As a result we missed our train home and the ticket was for a specific train. We had to buy new tickets at a much higher price and I was wondering whether there is any way to claim compensation for this in addition to the statutory compensation.
    Originally posted by Meoleman
    Not covered by the EC261 flight delay regulations I'm afraid.

    Believe you could use the civil courts tho,

    Good luck.
    Please read Vaubans superb guide. To find it Google and then download 'vaubans guide'.
    • Fitzmichael
    • By Fitzmichael 31st Dec 17, 4:43 PM
    • 120 Posts
    • 57 Thanks
    Fitzmichael
    Good question. Blame the govt, as usual.
    The airlines/regulator take no account of the frustration or extra costs that delays cause. What rationale is there to a minimum delay of 3 hours? Shouldn't the regulator have to provide one? Regulators should have responsibility only towards customers/clients - businesses can look after themselves. Most of us, if asked to give up a seat in an overbooked plane, would want very large compensation, even if the delay caused no extra expense and little or no inconvenience.
    Suing is possible (If I were rich, I'd do it out of bloody-minded contempt for how businesses will try anything to escape responsibility) but you'd need a solicitor and it would be long, frustrating and expensive. Unfortunately, our judges do not - unlike judges/juries in the US - make eye-watering awards, which will more than compensate for everything and give a kick to the business involved towards improving its own response. The reason that judges decide in 99% of civil cases is, you will be annoyed to hear, because in 1933 they were given the right to dispense with juries in most cases, and rapidly did so, deciding things were too complicated for them. Of course, they must know, in various cases where they find in favour of a (group of) individual/s against a corporate body, that a jury would willingly whack the heads of the directors to concentrate their minds on the people their money comes from, but 'our' judges seem to have a sort of toffee-nosed mindset against such social solidarity.
    • adibell
    • By adibell 5th Jan 18, 10:14 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    adibell
    Denied Claim on my Flight
    Hello all,

    This thread is pretty massive, and I may find my answer elsewhere, but I'm sure it'll take a lot of thread-trawling to find a relevant similar case. In case anyone can answer mine directly, please do let me know!...

    I was delayed in September 2013 on my flight from Bangkok to Amsterdam. The flight wasn't just delayed a bit....We were [officially] delayed by 31 hours and 27 minutes. (actually, I timed it at 37.5 hours, but whatever; 30+ hours is a bloody lot regardless when the MSE guide says you're entitled to claim 600 euros if it's over 4 hours!).

    I saw the MSE guide in the email newsletter last summer and thought I'd re-attempt my claim, using the template (my first complaint was off my own back and with little knowledge of the 'Technical Difficulties' dispute mentioned on the MSE guide, though pretty much got the same reply as this second time....).

    They have not mentioned any reference to what the technical issue was. Additionally, this wasn't just a slight delay. This was 30+ hours, in which they could have definitely got us to our destination quicker.

    My question is; Do I just have to grin and bear it that they say "This is in accordance with the European Court of Justice Verdict C-549/07 Wallentin-Hermann" or is there more that I can do here? It seems ridiculous that the flight can be delayed that long and I get no compensation for it.

    My letter to them:

    Dear customer services team,

    I am writing regarding a delayed/cancelled Norwegian Air flight.

    The judgement of the Court of Justice of the European Union in Tui & others v CAA confirmed the applicability of compensation, as set out in the Sturgeon case. As such, I am seeking compensation under EC Regulation 261/2004 for this flight. The details are as follows:

    Booking reference: ******
    Flight number: DY7206
    Departure airport: Bangkok International Airport, BKK
    Scheduled departure time: Wed 04/09/13 9:00
    Arrival airport: Schiphol Airport, AMS
    Scheduled arrival time: Wed 04/09/13 20:30

    Re-scheduled Arrival Airport
    Actual arrival time: Wed 06/09/13 09:05

    Number of passengers: 1

    Based on the above details, I am seeking compensation as specified in EC 261/2004.

    The booking originally constituted two flights, due to arrive in Amsterdam at 20:30 on the same day of travel (04/09/13)

    The arrival at my final destination was delayed by 37.5 hours in total.

    I had arranged the flight so that I could spend two days in Amsterdam before needing to be back in the UK on 06/09/13. Because the first flight of two (Bangkok to Stockholm Arlanda) was delayed due to a problem with the plane, I missed my entire holiday in Amsterdam, where I was going to stay with friends I hadnít seen in several years.

    When in Stockholm Arlanda Airport, the second flight was changed to allow me to be redirected to the UK, so not only was I stranded in Bangkok, and then in Stockholm, I missed being able to go to my original destination. The flight was supposed to take 16.5 hours to arrive in Amsterdam, but ended up taking 54 hours and arrived in Manchester.

    I have attached the original travel itinerary for reference.

    I look forward to a full response to this letter within 14 days. If I do not receive a satisfactory response I intend to pursue my complaint further, which could mean taking it to court


    To this, I received the response:

    Dear Mr ****

    Thank you for contacting us with your claim.

    Unfortunately, Norwegian flight DY7206 (BKK-ARN) 04.09.2013 was delayed by 31 hours and 27 minutes. This disruption was caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken*. As a gesture of goodwill we rebooked your second flight to Manchester instead of Amsterdam. We appreciate this delay resulted in the loss of your holiday in Amsterdam and we sincerely apologise for the inconvenience this has caused. Unfortunately this delay was out with our control.

    Although we respect your request for compensation, weíre unable to honour your claim as your flight was delayed due to extraordinary circumstances. This is in accordance with the European Court of Justice Verdict C-549/07 Wallentin-Hermann.

    We apologise for the inconvenience caused on this occasion and hope to have the opportunity to welcome you on board a Norwegian flight when you next choose to travel.

    Kind regards,

    Scott A

    The Customer Relations Team

    __________________________________________________ ____

    * Flight disruption information

    Norwegian flight: DY7206 (BKK-ARN) 04.09.2013
    Disruption type: Delayed
    Delay time: 31 hours and 27 minutes
    Reason for disruption: This delay was caused by unforseen technical difficulties.

    According to the ADR Directive, we are informing you that The Ombudsman Service LTD is an approved Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR). Please be aware that Norwegian Air Shuttle has not currently signed up to the Alternative Dispute Resolution.
    • Ganga
    • By Ganga 5th Jan 18, 11:12 AM
    • 910 Posts
    • 459 Thanks
    Ganga
    We were delayed over 3 hours on a flight. As a result we missed our train home and the ticket was for a specific train. We had to buy new tickets at a much higher price and I was wondering whether there is any way to claim compensation for this in addition to the statutory compensation.
    Originally posted by Meoleman
    You could always use the compensation you will receive from the airline to pay for the train tickets
    ITS NOT EASY TO GET EVERYTHING WRONG ,I HAVE TO WORK HARD TO DO IT!
    • JPears
    • By JPears 5th Jan 18, 12:53 PM
    • 3,400 Posts
    • 949 Thanks
    JPears
    adibell. Hopefully you have downloaded and read Vauban's most informative guide?
    If not then that is your first task.
    Norwegian must explain why they think the delay was due to extraordinary circumstances and what those circumstances where.
    I would suggest you write again, requesting detailed information on the reason for the excessive delay. Mark your letter as an NBA or LBA, put a reasonbale time frame for a fiull reply - 3 weeks is more than reasonable.
    Marking you letter as an NBA indicates that you are then prepared and able to take the next step, which is legal action, for recovery of your possible compensation. That's assuming you are willing to take that step.
    Check with a NWNF firm of solicitors, such as Botts online to see if you have a valid claim.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • adibell
    • By adibell 5th Jan 18, 1:12 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    adibell
    adibell. Hopefully you have downloaded and read Vauban's most informative guide?
    If not then that is your first task.
    Norwegian must explain why they think the delay was due to extraordinary circumstances and what those circumstances where.
    I would suggest you write again, requesting detailed information on the reason for the excessive delay. Mark your letter as an NBA or LBA, put a reasonbale time frame for a fiull reply - 3 weeks is more than reasonable.
    Marking you letter as an NBA indicates that you are then prepared and able to take the next step, which is legal action, for recovery of your possible compensation. That's assuming you are willing to take that step.
    Check with a NWNF firm of solicitors, such as Botts online to see if you have a valid claim.
    Originally posted by JPears
    Perfect! Sounds like this guide could be exactly what I was looking for! Looking forward to learning more about the situation and hopefully putting the world to rights!

    I'm not sure if it will be an issue, but when I contacted this time round was in October (I initially gave up and then took a while to get onto MSE to see if anyone had any advice - my bad!) - should I re-open another complaint, or should it be fine for me to just pick up where I left off?

    Thank you very much
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

5,271Posts Today

10,051Users online

Martin's Twitter